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SargentRay
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


I wasn't going to do such sports shooters' "complaint posts" anymore, since i've already spoken my mind many times on the subject. I mean maybe one day after retirement i'll have all the time in the world to get better at my craft and possibly will be able to get the proper equipment: i.e. a super long prime tele photo lens such as a 400mm f2.8 or even a 600mm. But for the time being i shoot whenever i'm asked to with my 70-200mm + TC-20 E III extender, providing i get paid for it. I simply won't shoot for free anymore even if it's not a lot of money, under paid is better than not getting paid at all.

But i just couldn't resist responding to Pyrat's post ( https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1311518 ) where he asks this question:

So, my question to you all is: how bad is this going to get before it gets better? (it does get better, doesn't it?). Am I the only one admitting to these heinous crimes of art, or am I among a legion of my own people? Taking the problems one at a time, I have my own excuses for why I started down this path:



I didn't want to "pollute" his post with my own pictures so i'm writing this one.

First off dear Pyrat you're certainly not alone in the vast realm of sports shooting, who have to crop because of lack of focal length and yes we do have to shoot a lot of frames to get just a few good ones. It does get a little better with practice but the most honest sports shooters will admit shooting a great ratio of non keepers vs keepers. Then as P. Alesse first replied you have to get better glass. Heck we "amateurs" all have to get better glass.

I vividly recall a video conference on sports shooting given by Scott Kelby, where he answers this question in the first 2 minutes of the conference: What is it that the pros do that makes such a difference ?

He sums it up in 4 pointers that he articulates for the rest of the video, i strongly suggest watching it, if you haven't seen it yet:



1-) They isolate subject from background
2-) They bring you (the viewers) in close
3-) They have the camera techniques
4-) They have the equipment.

He then so honestly admits sports shooting is indeed a sport for the rich. Like it or not be as good a photog as you want you'll never be able to fake the sharpness and Bokeh of a 400mm prime lens with a 70-200mm as good as this zoom might be.

Then there is also this very honest video by Fstoppers where sports illustrated photographers are interviewed on how they cover a Superbowl game. Again at 2:19 minutes into the video one of the photographers admits there is a great deal of luck involved, not just luck when you click the shutter but more general luck in life" You know; who you've met during you life, who might have noticed you being at the right place at the right time and so on ?



All this to say we all have to learn the ropes when we start out as a sports shooter, learning the techniques, the know hows as much as the no nos. But once this is mastered the rest depends greatly on luck, money and just how much risk one is willing to take. It does take balls to borrow money from a bank (in today's economy), to get the proper fine tools in order to master the art, knowing very well chances are only one in a million to make it big. Maybe one day when you've already spent a small fortune on equipment and you've already started getting noticed by magazines, Nikon or Canon will sponsor you in return for free publicity and tutorials...

Lastly in my view doing what we do with as little as we have is just proof of how good and motivated we are. What's the challenge in doing a great action picture on a bright sunny day when you have all the right equipment, all the field accesses you need and cooperation from everyone because you're recognized as a great sport photog ?

For me doing crazy assignments like the ones i do really separate men from children and a few "pros" have tried it with our crew once or twice and never came back. Most probably because they just couldn't shine as much once they had to do like everybody else which is:

1-) Get an S.D card from the boss
2-) Shoot in JPG small
3-) Crop and expose perfectly every frame getting each player twice, in action with the ball
4-) Shoot in single mode, you won't have time to clear the rejects from you bursts anyway, the boss will not delete them for you nor retouch them before printing
5-) Get a good team shot of each teams before each games
6-) Do all this in 25 minutes (regulation half time at U11 level)
7-) Repeat with the opposing team
8-) Give back your SD card making sure no reject shots are left on the card

If you've survived this far and your shots are decent maybe the boss will call you back for the next tournament.

A full day"s work will bring you between 300 - 350$, which entails shooting at least 10 games meaning a 12 hour work day plus travelling time.

So ending this i looked at your pictures Pyrat and i see great potential, you certainly have the timing, you seem to anticipate the action very well, most shots are nicely composed and well exposed. I think that given the opportunity and pro level body and glass you could shine just as much as the next pro photog out there with a little practice.

Be proud of what you do 99% of people have simply no idea on how to make a good picture, let alone a great action one.

Here are typical examples of what we do during soccer tournaments, shots are not perfect, some background are way too busy (although there are no chemical toilets on these ones), but considering i have less than a minute per player to shoot them twice i'd say it's a dam good job.

One things for sure they will all sell and even if i'm not the best sports shooter around i'm proud of my work and i like the joy my pictures bring to the good hard working parents that follow and encourage their kids in their sports.

1-)

2-)

3-)


Edited on Aug 10, 2014 at 05:24 PM · View previous versions


Aug 10, 2014 at 04:15 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


Nice rant ...

You use what you got the best you can in the best place you can find to do that.
If you know you can't deliver with what you brought ... you shouldn't be there ... at least for money ...

Can you rent a 500 f/4L IS ... ?
If you can't make enough $$ from a shoot to cover what you need ... it's a hobby ...

IMHO

... One of the "pro's" ...
http://jeffersonposter.smugmug.com/Category/Petit-Le-Mans-13/i-MjrrRzv/0/XL/Petit%20%2713%20Fri.-224-XL.jpg



Side Note: I too saw Kelby's Sports video ...

Jefferson



Aug 10, 2014 at 05:02 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


Hello Jefferson, i agree one shouldn't take a gig he knows will be over his head, but as for being a hobby if one can't cover his expenses with the money is going to get for the shoot, hmm i don't follow.

I mean no one is born a pro, it has to start out as a hobby or a passion if you rather call it that. The way i see it in the beginning you won't ask for as much money since you are not recognized, as good as you may be, but it doesn't mean your a hobbyist just because you're not getting paid as much as a well established photographer.

After a while like anybody else once recognized and after proving you can deliver the money will get better, isn't it how it works ?



Aug 10, 2014 at 05:20 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


When you shoot for someone other than just yourself ... you play by their rules ... "He Who Has the Gold Rules".

I just shoot for me ... been asked many times to shoot for those who want specifics ... I shoot what they want ... they run a booth ... and they get me my creds and lunch ... I run my ass off ... don't have time for lunch ...

I don't have to play that way ... some do.
I'm retired ... made good enough investments so that I live indoors and eat regular ... don't want to spend the $$ for a 1Dx and 500 f/4L ... don't need a
1D IV ... just picked up a 1Ds2 to go with my 5Dc.

I get shots ... RAW (I have no deadlines to meet), run them through LR ... when I'm in the mood ... usually in the mornings with coffee (I have the time), maybe upload a few to the printer ... just several miles away ... print Canvas prints ...
and sell a few here and there.

The reason I got the 1Ds2 is more resolution ... larger prints ... I don't think it will improve my shooting ... only I can do that ... but I can get larger prints and some of my stuff looks pretty good on Canvas ... To me anyway

Jefferson




Aug 10, 2014 at 06:13 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


Jefferson wrote:
When you shoot for someone other than just yourself ... you play by their rules ... "He Who Has the Gold Rules".

I just shoot for me ... been asked many times to shoot for those who want specifics ... I shoot what they want ... they run a booth ... and they get me my creds and lunch ... I run my ass off ... don't have time for lunch ...

I don't have to play that way ... some do.
I'm retired ... made good enough investments so that I live indoors and eat regular ... don't want to spend the
...Show more

Ok i see Jefferson, i'm 32 months away from retirement myself. Most of what i do is for my pleasure also, but i like to think i will be able to make a little extra F... You money once i'm retired. I'm not sure exactly what'll be doing but it will be something related to photography either a little portraits or a little sports shooting. The way i see it working 2 days a week will cover the difference between retirement income and full working income, but doing something i like on my terms as well. If i don't feel like doing a gig at times, I just won't do it and i'll still get buy just fine. But when i'll do it i'll have a little extra money just for me to spend or buy myself something nice for a change :-)

Great moto sports shot by the way :-)




Aug 10, 2014 at 06:33 PM
Pyrat
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


SargentRay- I much appreciate the great shots, the thoughtful reply, and the hard earned counsel - it's what has made this forum incredibly valuable to those of us emerging into sports. But while I agree with most every one of your points, I think that there is more too it, as Paul Alesse alluded to it in his earlier response.

I started out with a bit of a tongue in cheek question regarding the differences in landscape/ portrait work that seldom tops a couple of hundred shots in a session to ending the day shooting sports with shutter counts that have commas in them, and needing to post process most of those to find the shots I was trying to capture in camera. There is a ton of work in this business, and seeing you and others put up consistently good shots, QUICKLY is impressive.

Learning how to be a better shooter, having the right tools - those things take time and attention to the craft - but the biggest transition tI'm seeing is learning how to sell the work. It's the business side of the equation, and arguably, the more important one when it comes to making this work successful. I have two friends on the portrait/wedding side of the business, and IMO, the far more talented one of the two is far less successful than the guy who spends as much time building his business as he does his photo skills. So it isn't just about the craft, or the tools, or about who gets the shot. It's who can sell the shot.

So starting out, it's a bit overwhelming. I'm focusing on improving skills, building kit, shooting sports I don't know very well, and getting prepared for the long cold indoor season (I'm only a few hours south of you). For those of you that have built your portfolio of clients, have established workflows for processing and distribution, developed proven pricing, reliable labs, etc. you have earned your additional time that you can now spend making money and doing the fun stuff. I'm looking at picking up with some other shooting organizations and becoming one of those "don't have time for lunch guys" to gain some experience and observe some workflow before getting too far down the path of reinventing the wheel for myself, and we'll see where it goes from there. Until then, I'll post when I have something worth seeing, and continue to follow the forum, sports shooters, etc. to see what's out there. Going to be a good winter of work ahead.

.



Aug 10, 2014 at 07:57 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


Pyrat wrote:
SargentRay- I much appreciate the great shots, the thoughtful reply, and the hard earned counsel - it's what has made this forum incredibly valuable to those of us emerging into sports. But while I agree with most every one of your points, I think that there is more too it, as Paul Alesse alluded to it in his earlier response.

I started out with a bit of a tongue in cheek question regarding the differences in landscape/ portrait work that seldom tops a couple of hundred shots in a session to ending the day shooting sports with shutter counts that have
...Show more


Thank you very much and you are quite welcome by the same token Pyrat. Your post simply grabbed my attention and i just felt it spoke of my experiences, hopes and aspirations (which have toned down quite a bit over time, i'm 53 now). In a weird way i feel stuck at a certain level and can't reach the next one because of my equipment's limitations. No really i now it sounds cliché but it's true, especially with sports shooting where proper focal length, high FPS rate and good iso performance is key. Especially since the internet explosion, good pictures are available now everywhere and what was considered a good shot just 2 years ago is so passé now as new technology (including post processing programs) evolve.

We are ring side witnesses of a great photography (if not art as a whole) democratization where almost everyone can become a good photog almost overnight with a little skill, patience and of course money. This is why i suppose those who develop a winning recipe along with good marketing skills make it as opposed to those of us who are more artistically inclined.

Like others selling myself has always been difficult and up to very recently i simply refused to do stuff i didn't feel was artistically valid. When i was a young man i passed on many photography job offers such as lab techs or Sears portrait photographer type of work. I never regretted it and at 25 y.o. i turned my life around and got a "real job" as my dad would have said. But my passion always chewed me from inside and it was a great release for me to embrace digital photography after many years of inactivity.

Your chain of reasoning is flawless my friend, you're absolutely right there's more to success than just being good and having a lot of equipment. I too have many averagely talented friends who make money from photography because they excel at marketing themselves as much as their work. Namely one who makes a ton of money doing real estate photography. The only problem is he shoots on average 8 houses per day at 99$ each, 7 days a week. I'm simply not willing to do that, not anymore that is.

As for portraits and weddings, i must say i payed my college photography studies doing weddings on week ends. Maybe that's why i hate it so much today. I have a infinite respect for those who do it, but it is certainly as much work as a sports shooter, and requires a tremendous amount of preparation, just as much post processing work (perhaps more) and last but not least finding, training and keeping good assistant (s). Portrait is also one of my favorite specialty but here again you need to work very hard to have a decent clientèle in order to work all year round. But it is not impossible, just very hard to get this clientèle.

In conclusion i have to agree with you it is not the most talented who will make it, but then again how can one define success ? For me as i grow older success means being able to live my passion and do only what i want, only the kind of gigs that move me, for others it will be making a lot of money despite the artistic side favouring volume and speed over creativity. It's not for me to judge i only have the prerogative to choose (to an extent) what i want to do after i retire from the force.

At present i don't know for sure what i'll do after i retire, portraits, sport shooting or even interior design photography who knows, i just feel i still have a few strings to my bow and i can probably do something both satisfying and a bit lucrative just to grow old and hopefully happy.


Be well my remote friend, long live photographers !




Aug 10, 2014 at 09:49 PM
CW100
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


SargentRay wrote:
I wasn't going to do such sports shooters' "complaint posts" anymore, since i've already spoken my mind many times on the subject. I mean maybe one day after retirement i'll have all the time in the world to get better at my craft and possibly will be able to get the proper equipment: i.e. a super long prime tele photo lens such as a 400mm f2.8 or even a 600mm. But for the time being i shoot whenever i'm asked to with my 70-200mm + TC-20 E III extender, providing i get paid for it. I simply won't shoot for
...Show more

OK
so you're making less than minimum wage (per hour) but enjoying it
And parents with their cheap Rebels get good pics despite "not knowing anything"

boo hoo hoo







Aug 11, 2014 at 06:24 PM
John Patrick
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


CW100 wrote:
OK
so you're making less than minimum wage (per hour) but enjoying it
And parents with their cheap Rebels get good pics despite "not knowing anything"

boo hoo hoo



Not sure I get it. $300/day at a 10-12 hour day is between $25-$30/hr. I don't get the minimum wage comment.

John



Aug 11, 2014 at 09:34 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


John Patrick wrote:
Not sure I get it. $300/day at a 10-12 hour day is between $25-$30/hr. I don't get the minimum wage comment.

John


I don't get it either, minimum wage here in Canada is 10.35$/hour, 8.35$ for jobs with tips.
My regular job brings me close to 55$/hour, seems to me that getting 25-30$/hour for a hobby is rather decent while doing something i like yes indeed.
Perhaps because i'm french i can't express myself clearly enough, but my point was in response to Pyrat's question that it wasn't a sin to crop or spray and pray when you're not a pro and do not have all the super long telephoto and don't quite have the experience yet. Just wanted to encourage him and insisted we all have to start somewhere.
Then i pointed out that occasionally professionals would come and shoot with us and found it hard to shoot at the pace we do, without the benefit of high FPS rate, RAW files and not follow the action but rather get each players twice with the ball. Quite different from shooting 1,000 frames during one game and showing off the best 4 or 5 shots.

As for the comparison with parents getting good pictures with their cheap camera i don't get it either. Possibly some parents do really good pictures too i don't doubt that, but they must not make too many good pictures because at the end of the tournament there are not too many unsold pictures on the table i can assure you.

But i wonder is this your way of telling me my pictures are not good CW100 ?

If so well then i'm sorry to disappoint you, i do my best with what i have in the time i have.



Aug 11, 2014 at 10:52 PM
CW100
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


SargentRay wrote:
\

But i wonder is this your way of telling me my pictures are not good CW100 ?

If so well then i'm sorry to disappoint you, i do my best with what i have in the time i have.


no

just all the talk about what the "boss" requires and being underpaid it just sounded like quite a chore, especially for shooting a kid's soccer game. Where I live (eastern US) it's the parents shooting kids sports not professionals. The "pros" shoot night football and events where the parent don't have access. And maybe I mixed this up with another comment on another camera forum where some compared shooting for 'maxpreps' to the pay working on the fry line at McDonalds But if you enjoy what you do it's not about the money
(I just occasionally shoot sports only for fun)





Aug 12, 2014 at 06:40 AM
SargentRay
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


CW100 wrote:
no

just all the talk about what the "boss" requires and being underpaid it just sounded like quite a chore, especially for shooting a kid's soccer game. Where I live (eastern US) it's the parents shooting kids sports not professionals. The "pros" shoot night football and events where the parent don't have access. And maybe I mixed this up with another comment on another camera forum where some compared shooting for 'maxpreps' to the pay working on the fry line at McDonalds But if you enjoy what you do it's not about the money
(I just occasionally shoot sports
...Show more

Ah ok i get it now CW100, thanks for clearing that up. Here we don't have anything like Maxpreps although i've read so much about it, it really seems quite a venture when you work for that organisation. I might be wrong but it seems like a good place to learn and develop skills but might be tiresome after a while.

As for my personal experience i studied photography in college (a 3 year course mind you) way back in the 80s, i've said this before so please excuse me if it sounds redundant, but it is important to understand where i'm coming from i believe in order to really comprehend what digital photography is to me and just how important it is in my life.

After my course i set up a rather big studio (thinking about it now) which i shared with 3 colleagues. Each of us had their own speciality mine was architecture and interiors so i wasn't that much in the studio although i did occasional people shots. It went fine for the first 6 months or so but after that things started degrading and the market was changing rapidly. namely magazines wouldn't pay as much for the same days work and also insisted on getting the films to get them developed themselves and do everything "in house" from that point on, once they figured out we were making profits on expenses such as films, polaroids and processing.

Towards the end we were all in depth at various levels and we all had to get outside jobs (i was working evenings and nights in a warehouse) just to make ends meet. I finally got fed up of that way of life and turned my life around completely, went back to school and became a police officer (another childhood dream). After that i have been many many years without shooting a frame. Then in 2008 during one of my son's football tournament i met with a sport shooter, bought a few 11x14 off of him and spoke for a while with him and that encounter completely rocked my world.

I started learning about digital which up to that point i thought was not worth anything being a hard core film and paper guy. But i found out just how good in less than a decade digital had become. That same year i got a D3s, a few lenses and started following my son in his sport and quickly became better at it to the point of being asked to do every team's portait, group and action shots.

That's when i started dreaming of setting up some kind of sports shooting business for myself and perhaps make a little money with it once retired from the force. For the moment i simply don't have the time to take care of such an endeavour working on a rotating schedule and having only 2 week ends off on my 5 week rotation. But i still have 2 1/2 years to go and after that i'm seriously considering it. It may not be sports shooting who knows might go with a little portrait set up or take architecture (real estate now is very popular) again.

So in essence what i'm saying is that it is possible to have fun doing what we like as well as make a little money while doing it. Of course many will aspire at much more and fantasize at the idea of being called a pro photographer some day. I do not, at least not anymore i'd be perfectly happy making 350$/week for a day's work once retired, it would give me more money than what i'm making now once combined to my pension fund.

But i do understand that in principle this kind of sports shooting is underpaid (cheap labor). But i have to admit part of me enjoys not having to manage a business 100 hours a week and not having the stress and hassle of finding photographers, organizing tournament shoots months in advance. Once my work is done i just go home open a cold one and enjoy the rest of the evening with my kids. I have basic and realistic (i think) aspirations. But mostly i am proud always after a day of sports shooting. Sometimes i just hang out near the tents where Guy's people sell the pictures and i observe the smiles and the eyes of both kids and parents when they look at the pictures. They are not all from me but many are and that is part of my pay i think :-)



Aug 12, 2014 at 10:29 AM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


With sports, there are a few things to a successful shot, and equipment definitely does play a role. The guy who has 3 bodies, with a 400 f/2.8 and a 200 f/2 and a 24-70 f/2.8 will capture images of higher technical quality SOOC. Gear is something you have partial control over - if you value a nice house over a nice lens, you don't have the top-end kit and vice versa. It's a trade-off you're in control of. Equipment takes care of things like DoF, frame rate, magnification, and all that jazz. The next thing is capturing the "moment." No matter what gear you have, if you're always a second slow you're doomed. This is another partially controlled variable - you can learn the game and hone your skills to a point, but genetics will limit your reflexes. Next there's capturing a good moment - which is all luck. No matter how good you are, some games won't have anything spectacular happen, or if it does you're on the wrong side of the field. Finally, there's post-processing. I think that this is huge. Yeah, the pros covering Fifa probably don't have any time to edit their shots, an editor probably proofs them and sends them down the wire for immediate sale. However, the stuff going on at Fifa is interesting to a lot of people, thus even a small JPG SOOC will be considered good if it nails a moment. However, most of us lack the luxury of covering such games, a deficit which is offset by our editing options. We usually don't have time constraints, so we can polish the colours and crop perfectly as much as we want. I'm constantly amazed at what's possible in PhotoShop, and am currently spending more time learning about post than actually shooting. And my images are improving, without a doubt.

As for making money at it, I think that it's a funny business. To earn a healthy living, you must work 14 hour days 7 days a week. But why make lots of money? To be able to afford other things? But then you don't have time to enjoy those things... It's a strange beast.

Not sure if any of what I said's on topic, but I felt like chiming in.



Aug 12, 2014 at 02:10 PM
pburke
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


sports shooting and making money are not really terms that go together. I've been in the motorsports world during the boom years in the 90s and even then only a handful of the 200 shooters at a race of international importance made any money, and of those only about 5 are still shooting motorsports today. And all had the right gear, skill and luck. We had several wealthy "superfans" who essentially worked for free with expensive gear, only to have the best access in the world. They were good at what they did, but that's something you are dealing with in the sports arena - people willing to work for nothing only to "be there."

Getting paid doing this type of work usually requires you work for a major agency, travel the country, shoot multiple sports, and pretty much have no life for what I'd consider a rather small paycheck. You usually do not own your output if you work such a gig (Allsport, Getty, etc)




There's just not enough money to be made. So unless you enjoy the access you get and are willing to work your ass off to break even, know how to promote better than how to shoot, you really should be looking at a different way to make a living.



Aug 12, 2014 at 02:48 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


Lauchlan Toal wrote:
With sports, there are a few things to a successful shot, and equipment definitely does play a role. The guy who has 3 bodies, with a 400 f/2.8 and a 200 f/2 and a 24-70 f/2.8 will capture images of higher technical quality SOOC. Gear is something you have partial control over - if you value a nice house over a nice lens, you don't have the top-end kit and vice versa. It's a trade-off you're in control of. Equipment takes care of things like DoF, frame rate, magnification, and all that jazz. The next thing is capturing the
...Show more

My gosh this is well written (wish i could so elegantly turn my phrases). I agree totally with that on all points. It's very similar for rock show, i have many friends that shoot until late at nigh (often on week nights) at rock shows for free in hope of selling pictures to the artists or fans (but it almost never happens shots being published the very next day). They have to edit, pp and send 20 shots before going to bed and getting up in the morning to get to their regular jobs. But they are so proud to say they got front stage (pit) passes and took pictures, they just don't mind (or are blinded) being abused this way. At least like i said i get paid for my work even if it's not an astronomical amount of money.



Aug 12, 2014 at 11:50 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 25 minutes of sports shooting


pburke wrote:
sports shooting and making money are not really terms that go together. I've been in the motorsports world during the boom years in the 90s and even then only a handful of the 200 shooters at a race of international importance made any money, and of those only about 5 are still shooting motorsports today. And all had the right gear, skill and luck. We had several wealthy "superfans" who essentially worked for free with expensive gear, only to have the best access in the world. They were good at what they did, but that's something you are dealing with
...Show more

Well said as well pburke, it's the main reason why i went back to school and decided to get a more "normal" job. I wanted kids, a family a decent house, all of which i couldn't see happening by doing photography and constantly having to worry about having ends meet. Back in college we were 120 photography students at the beginning, after the 3 year course only 5 of us graduated and 2 more finished the following year. Out of those 7 only 3 are still doing photography professionally today, one of the 2 last ones went completely bankrupt a few years ago. The only thing all of them had in common was to have wealthy parents. Most of them were business owners (big successful businesses) and one of them had 2 doctors for parents.

I know this guy who lived 13 years in his one bedroom apartment where he had a foldable bed which he put against the wall every morning to use his place as a fashion studio. Last i heard of him he never got married, never got a house and only recently acquired his 1st car, he is also in his mid 50s. I suppose it's a matter of choice in the end. It just seem to me it's a rather high price to pay to pursue a passion. Can't say i don't understand it (at least in theory) I just didn't have the balls to live like that in the name of art. perhaps i just wasn't a true artist in the purest sense of the word.

thank you both Lauchian Toal and pburke for the thoughtful well written comments :-)



Aug 13, 2014 at 12:06 AM





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