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Archive 2014 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

Spyro P.
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

walt1 wrote:
Interesting and comical video here describing time wasted on sensor size debates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PHYidejT3KY

Some good points to ponder.

we argue about gear because
a) it's fun
b) we like it
c) we can

take that zack.

Feb 12, 2015 at 06:30 AM

rattymouse
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

Spyro P. wrote:

take that zack.

Feb 12, 2015 at 06:52 AM

alba63
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

It is a well made, original and fresh video, but I am afraid there is an underlying agenda (or employer) that makes him present the things as he does.

"Negligeable" - well, you may see it that way, or different. At least it is quite a visible difference, as anybody on this forum may know.

At some points the rethorics in his little speech becomes quite transparent/ visible: "Guess what's gotten better - small frame sensors" - "Difference at high ISO between FF sensors and smal frame sensors has become smaller or negligeable."

Unfortunately he forgets to mention that FF sensors have equally gotten better, as it is basically the same technology, just scaled up. But probably he just accidentally forgot to mention that...

Fujifilm certainly appreciate his services, and consider him an important messenger. BTW, did anybody know ZackArias before Fuji X came out?

Feb 12, 2015 at 09:54 AM

Mescalamba
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

savingspaces wrote:
But what about substance? I see some terrible pictures (snapshots) with Full Frame/APS-c and amazing shots with M4/3. I also see terrible shots with M4/3 and real beauties with FF/APS-C

BTW, how big do you personally print?

I have only gotten into photography 3 years ago and just very recently started test printing to see what the EM1 sensor can do. Even now my pictures suck, but I think it is good to have some around the house. I first did 12x18s and because those looked so good, quality wise, I ordered some 30x20s - I see no difference in quality between...Show more →

Since I'm mostly using 6 Mpix, you can imagine that "not too big".

Altough due how S5 Pro works, its suprisingly flexible.. (there is always talk that some camera produce "film like noise", well S5 Pro actually really does).

Otherwise I agree, its a lot about who is taking those pictures, less about gear. Also today a lot about post-processing. RAW truly is digital negative and its supposed to be processed (some people somehow dont get it).

Thing with that RAW processing is that it creates few problems, one of them is that quality of camera output really shows when you start processing, especially if you demand really good output and files that can survive bit of rough handling. Thats when separation of truly good cameras from rest starts. And usually time when one sees wheres difference between sensor sizes (and also pixel sizes) and bit depths, DR, noise floor.. All those things that seems as "not that important". At least till you do some post-processing..

Difference between for example 12 mpix FF from A7s and any 12 mpix m4/3 or APS-C can be described as unbelieavable. And D810 or even better, D4s isnt far behind..

But if someone takes it easy, simple fast RAW PP (in LR for example) or just JPGs, then nope.. no need for better camera.

Feb 12, 2015 at 12:17 PM

dasrocket
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

Zack wrote the very best camera maker article I have ever come across,
here

He is best served with a touch of lightness; the whole point of his charm is in being different than the measurebating, pixel-peeping discussions to be had in blogs and forums -keepin' it real

Feb 12, 2015 at 01:44 PM

hauxon
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

Given that resolution is sufficient for your needs, the lens quality and look matters 1000 times more than the sensor size. It's easier to base your views on specs and measurements than look, feel and handling. So when choosing an image-making tool these subjective points mean the most unless your tool is for some kind of special application.

And for those who truly need the ultimate resolution, or just anything ultimate, should not be considering or discussing general purpose tools as such.

That's why this silly video is basically correct.

Feb 12, 2015 at 08:28 PM

savingspaces
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

I am with you, but it reminded me of a Ming Thein blog awhile back where he wrote about one of his shows at an art gallery. He printed from his D800, some APS-C and a bunch of M4/3. However, he printed the M4/3 ones really big. He said visitors were ohhhing and ahhing over how much detail those FF cameras retain at those sizes, not knowing that the big prints came from the tiny m4/3 sensor.

Mescalamba wrote:
Since I'm mostly using 6 Mpix, you can imagine that "not too big".

Feb 13, 2015 at 04:04 PM

Mescalamba
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

savingspaces wrote:
I am with you, but it reminded me of a Ming Thein blog awhile back where he wrote about one of his shows at an art gallery. He printed from his D800, some APS-C and a bunch of M4/3. However, he printed the M4/3 ones really big. He said visitors were ohhhing and ahhing over how much detail those FF cameras retain at those sizes, not knowing that the big prints came from the tiny m4/3 sensor.

Actually m4/3s have a lot of detail (today is best for that NX1, but for quite some time, m4/3 had upper hand). Reason is that its very "pixel dense" sensor. Trouble with m4/3s isnt in resolution, but in noise. Also in lacking bit depth and sometimes very "so-so" colors. DR is also kinda ehm.. I doubt he squeezed those files too much. Noise starts crawling out pretty fast. And if printed really big, it is visible.

If you show pics to "generic" folks, they usually only see in terms of "I like it" or "I don't". I might be alone in belief that we should see bit more than just that.. but sure, if its good enough for some, I wont take it away from them.

My point is that I really dont care how generic people see it, I care about how I see it. And I like perfection (or as close to it as possible).

Feb 13, 2015 at 05:26 PM

Charlie N
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

"The size of the imaging sensor comes into play in the final quality of the photo. I’d rather have a 20 megapixel medium format camera than a 30 megapixel 35mm based DSLR because the physical sensor is much larger. The larger the sensor the higher the quality. "

- Zack arias on his jump to medium format................. the guy is a double talk salesman. In this quote, he is referencing the phase one 140

that happens to be a 44x33mm sensor, nothing close to the 60x45mm format he talks about and shows in the video. That sensor is 1.68x larger than full frame. It also has a lot of handicap, such as high iso, AF, and framerate.

Full frame cameras have a sensor size 2.3x larger than his aps fuji..... the guy proclaims his medium format being a notch ahead of full frame, with the sensor being 1.68x larger, however with full frame compared to aps, the difference is negligible yet the full frame sensor is 2.3x larger...... something's not adding up...

Feb 13, 2015 at 07:27 PM

anthonysemone
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

And all of the foregoing presupposes the requisite degree of personal visual acuity to distinguish the alleged differences as a function of sensor size, etc. etc. No never mind monitor calibration. Hell, at my age and with my cataracts I'm damn lucky to see what I'm typing.

Feb 13, 2015 at 07:50 PM

rattymouse
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

Charlie N wrote:
Full frame cameras have a sensor size 2.3x larger than his aps fuji..... the guy proclaims his medium format being a notch ahead of full frame, with the sensor being 1.68x larger, however with full frame compared to aps, the difference is negligible yet the full frame sensor is 2.3x larger...... something's not adding up...

All that needs to add up is Arias' bank balance. As long as the checks keep coming in he'll spin the story anyway the sender needs.

Feb 13, 2015 at 08:44 PM

sirimiri
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Interesting sensor evaluation from Zack Arias

dasrocket wrote:
Zack wrote the very best camera maker article I have ever come across,
here

Holy crap, I have rarely seen a comment section drag on as long as that one has!

Feb 15, 2015 at 01:22 AM

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