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Archive 2014 · D700 to D810 jump

  
 
edymoreno
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D700 to D810 jump


Just wondering what thoughts others have who have just recently jumped from the D700 to D810. In particular, how do you find the high ISO of the D700 vs D810?

I finally jumped because it seems that Nikon isn't going to pull another rabbit out of the hat. D700 was pretty much a smaller D3. I would have really liked to have seen a Dxxx body with the internals of the D4/D4s.

In terms of high ISO, I find it disappointing. After 6+ years, I would have expected much better and cleaner results. As it, it feels like the ISO 6400 on the D810 is the same, if not a little more noisy than the D700. This is where 36MP fails, IMO, and at least for me, is overkill. I was plenty happy with 12MP.

The quieter shutter, and ISO64 are a welcome change though. Now I can take more shots at f/2 or wider without maxing out the shutter speed. Video is nice, but it's also not my primary focus when taking pictures.



Jul 21, 2014 at 02:27 PM
M_J_Helin
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D700 to D810 jump


That's strange. I've shot with both, D700 and D800 and found out that D800:s noise levels are 1-2 stops better. Plus the colors and dynamic range are noticeable better.


Jul 21, 2014 at 03:13 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D700 to D810 jump


Just shot with the D810 for 2 days and that camera is astounding!


Jul 21, 2014 at 03:19 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D700 to D810 jump


You're probably viewing both at 100%, which isn't a fair comparison to the D810 due to the pixel density/magnification @ 100%. But even at the pixel level the D810 outperforms the D700.

Here's an example of the D800 vs D3s @ ISO 12,800, first at 1:1 (pixel level) and then normalized/downsampled to 12MP, which is the correct way to compare noise).

1:1
http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-tCwmfKk/0/O/i-tCwmfKk-O.jpg

8MP:
http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-7DSfV52/0/O/i-7DSfV52-O.jpg



Jul 21, 2014 at 03:19 PM
form
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D700 to D810 jump


In that comparison you can clearly identify the specific IQ issue of the D800, that being the amp glow - the blacks and anything in the deep shadows (as well as other areas to some degree) experience a blue-purple-red tinting supposedly related to signal amplification/circuitry/etc. The D810 has reduced this based on some of the reviews I've seen, just like the D4s reduced this compared to the D4 (which had a similar issue but at higher sensitivities).

Therefore, although the appearance of grain is similar after the resizing, the "stain" of a rather mono-color noise most visible in the shadows is very distinct in the D800 image.

Don't ignore this stain, it's significant and does affect final image output.



Jul 21, 2014 at 03:26 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D700 to D810 jump


form wrote:
In that comparison you can clearly identify the specific IQ issue of the D800, that being the amp glow - the blacks and anything in the deep shadows (as well as other areas to some degree) experience a blue-purple-red tinting supposedly related to signal amplification/circuitry/etc. The D810 has reduced this based on some of the reviews I've seen, just like the D4s reduced this compared to the D4 (which had a similar issue but at higher sensitivities).

Therefore, although the appearance of grain is similar after the resizing, the "stain" of a rather mono-color noise most visible in the shadows is
...Show more

Yes, but it's only visible on the D800 starting at ISO 12,800 and then only for images with deep shadows at that ISO and above. The relative noise difference between 1:1 and downsampled still applies (from ISO 100 through 6,400)



Jul 21, 2014 at 03:35 PM
AMaji
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D700 to D810 jump


form wrote:
In that comparison you can clearly identify the specific IQ issue of the D800, that being the amp glow - the blacks and anything in the deep shadows (as well as other areas to some degree) experience a blue-purple-red tinting supposedly related to signal amplification/circuitry/etc. The D810 has reduced this based on some of the reviews I've seen, just like the D4s reduced this compared to the D4 (which had a similar issue but at higher sensitivities).

Therefore, although the appearance of grain is similar after the resizing, the "stain" of a rather mono-color noise most visible in the shadows is
...Show more

I believe the amp glow can be somewhat nullified by using a dark frame subtraction. Yes, it is another step, but the glow is usually seen at very high ISO values and presumably one does not shoot too much at those ISO values. If one does, then they should be looking at the D4s or Df.



Jul 21, 2014 at 05:21 PM
form
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D700 to D810 jump


In fact it is visible at ISO3200, and it is visible with little/no image alteration by ISO6400, however most of the time it doesn't become noticeable to most people unless they are familiar with it. The dark frame subtraction does not do a perfect job by any means, and the detail of the blacks/shadows is still completely lost even if the color cast is reduced. I am only going by my own experience and tests.

And some people have said I'm picky. That might be true. However, when I compare D800 images to images from 5d2/5d3 I do see the tint more in D800 images.



Jul 21, 2014 at 06:52 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D700 to D810 jump


Though the amp glow of the D800 was one of my few disappointments with it, it's still way better than the D700 which had all kinds of problems at high ISOs.

I've also found that the amp glow is very dependent on the camera temperature as well as how my live view I've been using. If it's a cold day and not much live view usage it's far less. Hot day with lots of live view and it's easy to see at 3200 in deep shadows. Particularly annoying is that it's not uniform (by definition I suppose) which makes it hard to remove in post.

The D810 seems to have some solid improvements over the D800 that may make it worthwhile for some to upgrade.



Jul 21, 2014 at 07:21 PM
form
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D700 to D810 jump


e.g. D800 is NOT very good for las vegas weddings (110F+ etc.).

The D810 preliminaries show improvement in the amp glow.



Jul 21, 2014 at 07:37 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · D700 to D810 jump


edymoreno wrote:
Just wondering what thoughts others have who have just recently jumped from the D700 to D810. In particular, how do you find the high ISO of the D700 vs D810?

I finally jumped because it seems that Nikon isn't going to pull another rabbit out of the hat. D700 was pretty much a smaller D3. I would have really liked to have seen a Dxxx body with the internals of the D4/D4s.

In terms of high ISO, I find it disappointing. After 6+ years, I would have expected much better and cleaner results. As it, it feels like the ISO 6400 on
...Show more

The D800/E and the D810 are easily 1 stop better at high ISO than the D700. I know as I have used all 4 cameras, D700, then D800, then D800E and now the D810. I think you might be looking at the D700 through rose coloured glasses. The D700 was a great camera for it's time, but I don't miss the D700 at all now.



Jul 21, 2014 at 08:21 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · D700 to D810 jump


jhinkey wrote:
Though the amp glow of the D800 was one of my few disappointments with it, it's still way better than the D700 which had all kinds of problems at high ISOs.

I've also found that the amp glow is very dependent on the camera temperature as well as how my live view I've been using. If it's a cold day and not much live view usage it's far less. Hot day with lots of live view and it's easy to see at 3200 in deep shadows. Particularly annoying is that it's not uniform (by definition I suppose) which makes it hard
...Show more

No amp glow for the D810:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1307039/2#12473048



Jul 21, 2014 at 08:24 PM
edymoreno
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · D700 to D810 jump


Yes, I'm comparing 100% on the D700 to 100% on the D810. Reason being that I'm comparing what comes out of the camera, not what software algorithms do to the image.

Both cameras are set to NR off, ISO 6400, WB 2700. Set to Neutral picture control in NX-D.

D810


d810_6400 by edymoreno, on Flickr

D700


d700_6400 by edymoreno, on Flickr

I much more prefer the bigger blocky noise in the D700 vs the fine grained colored looking sand in the D810. Realistically though, I see it as a wash. No real gain in high ISO performance. Sure, it has 3x the pixels, but that was Nikon's call.

As I originally mentioned, I'm disappointed in not clearly see an improvement in high ISO noise. I used ISO 3200 on the D700 frequent enough while indoors (kids pictures), which is why I was hoping for better.



Jul 21, 2014 at 11:38 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · D700 to D810 jump


edymoreno wrote:
Yes, I'm comparing 100% on the D700 to 100% on the D810. Reason being that I'm comparing what comes out of the camera, not what software algorithms do to the image.


I think you have a misapprehension about what downsampling is. All your images are downsampled whether you're doing it explicitly or not. The D800/D810 is at least a stop better than the D700.



Jul 21, 2014 at 11:49 PM





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