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Archive 2014 · Wakeup from the photo industry?

  
 
tuantran
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


All of the sudden, it seems that the industry is coming out with great lenses. Some lenses are great but expensive but great no less and some lenses are great for the price. What is going on? Did they suddenly figure out a new CAD program that magically can design nice optics? Or did the competition heat up and now they releasing stuff that has been in the works for a while?

Whatever it is, it's costing me!



Jul 14, 2014 at 01:57 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


I think it's the gradual evolution of products in response to continuing improvement in design, materials, and manufacturing. Once lens accuity gets to a certain point, it "out shines" most sensors. That'll change.


Jul 14, 2014 at 02:05 PM
kezeka
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


Bit of a tic-toc cycle between upgrading sensors past the lenses and then upgrading the lenses to resolve past the sensors and on and on and on. Canon seems to have been focusing on lenses since the release of the 5D2 but it sounds like we might be getting an entirely new sensor design in september.


Jul 14, 2014 at 02:13 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


I currently see two different developments going in parallel - one is going to sharper lenses with bigger outside filter diameters (82 mm), the other one focuses on smaller lenses and reducing bulk (micro 4/3rd cameras, some mirrorless systems). Canon seems to continue to focus on event shooters where new versions of the 24-70 and 70-200/2.8 lenses were focused on and now also the potential new 100-400. But also Canon's latest TSE versions got bigger and heavier. Even the latest Sony/Zeiss lenses for the mirrorless E-mount are still heavy and quite bulky.

Competition is certainly heating up - just to name Samyang as a good example. Sigma also has introduced great new and fast Art lenses.

I find sometimes that older lenses on my mirrorless camera give me some effects (bokeh, color rendition) which the newer Canon lenses don't have. The older lenses seem to have more of a "signature" I think.



Jul 14, 2014 at 02:27 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


kezeka wrote:
Bit of a tic-toc cycle between upgrading sensors past the lenses and then upgrading the lenses to resolve past the sensors and on and on and on. Canon seems to have been focusing on lenses since the release of the 5D2 but it sounds like we might be getting an entirely new sensor design in september.


Canon made the better sensors but some lenses didn't match anymore the new FF sensor until the 5D MkII. Then the table turned around, and Canon's lenses since then outperform their current FF sensors.



Jul 14, 2014 at 02:29 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


tuantran wrote:
All of the sudden, it seems that the industry is coming out with great lenses. Some lenses are great but expensive but great no less and some lenses are great for the price. What is going on? Did they suddenly figure out a new CAD program that magically can design nice optics? Or did the competition heat up and now they releasing stuff that has been in the works for a while?

Whatever it is, it's costing me!


Computers.

After having fun in scale modelling for 3 decades I did not build any kit the last 10 years. When I bought a new developed kit I was shocked about the accuracy pieces fit together today. These are world differences. I guess it is the same in calculating and producing a LENS based on todays computer technologie.




Jul 14, 2014 at 03:34 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


Ralph Conway wrote:
Computers.

After having fun in scale modelling for 3 decades I did not build any kit the last 10 years. When I bought a new developed kit I was shocked about the accuracy pieces fit together today. These are world differences. I guess it is the same in calculating and producing a LENS based on todays computer technologie.



The computer programs run on the super power machines of today help tons and tons for zooms. Look in the 80s and before, zooms were mostly considerable compromises compared to primes. Now they are not so much of compromise. You still need some human input and art to it because there are endless potential designs and very different starting points. Now third party with designers with less art can pull off primes better than ever before.

Manufacturing ability matters too as many designs are tricky to mass produce as they require extreme precision in build or the specs won't match (as it is copy variation has proven to be quite real).




Jul 14, 2014 at 04:09 PM
tuantran
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


Computers help but who is actually coming up with the equations and stuff? I can write the program and design some hardware but I still need to figure out the right equation. A lot of these stuff are proprietary which makes it more impressive.


Jul 14, 2014 at 04:15 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


tuantran wrote:
Computers help but who is actually coming up with the equations and stuff? I can write the program and design some hardware but I still need to figure out the right equation. A lot of these stuff are proprietary which makes it more impressive.


If you can do the math for fast, clean A/D conversion then you got a lot further into higher maths than I did

I think we are seeing (and not only in camera technologies but across most designed/manufactured things) a cycle similar to want happened to power the industrial age. The steam engine had been around since 1600 and Watt built the first rotary powered one about 1780. Lathes have been around since time immeasurable. (You got to wonder at the brilliance of the the first man or woman who came up with the idea of the lathe!!)

Lathes were powered by waterwheels and when the cutter dug in the force of the water couldn't respond to provide more torque. In a similar manner the piston which is fundamental to the steam engine wasn't really round thus not very efficient. So they hooked a steam engine to a lathe to make a tighter piston for a better steam engine to give more power to a better lathe (keep repeating).

We've been using computers to aid in design since fairly early in their history and using computers to design computers for sometime. It has reached a self-reinforcing feedback loop where the computer designs and helps to build a better computer which in turn helps to design a better computer (keep repeating).

The basic physics of light can't be cheated, but the optimal shape, number, composition, coating, etc., for a given lens must be calculated out of what likely approaches an infinite set. This was done in the past by trial and error and working from the current given level. It is now possible to consider extraordinary numbers of solutions in relatively small amounts of time and even prototype them in a fraction of the time it use to take.

So yeah, there is a bump going on and it is hardly limited to photography.

Robert



Jul 14, 2014 at 04:48 PM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


In addition to computation, the manufacturing process for mass-produced goods continues to become more precise, efficient, and effective. Designs which may have been prohibitively difficult to produce can now be made without extreme effort.


Jul 14, 2014 at 05:01 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


Large format lenses went through this some time back with Apo lenses becoming the in thing. Think a decade and more ago.
Schneider introduced some very good longer lenses within the past decade as well.

Takes the mineature camera lens makers time to catch up...



Jul 14, 2014 at 09:05 PM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Wakeup from the photo industry?




Daniel Smith wrote:
Large format lenses went through this some time back with Apo lenses becoming the in thing. Think a decade and more ago.
Schneider introduced some very good longer lenses within the past decade as well.

Takes the mineature camera lens makers time to catch up...

Just how good are the Schneider/Rodenstock APO lenses? I hear about them a lot, but with medium format there are no real standardized tests like Dxomark. Zeiss has the 135 f2 that delivers a full 36 mp of sharpness on the D800e - any mf lenses come close to out-resolving the PhaseOne IQ180? It's a format I'd love to get into if I ever have the money, but there's only a handful of users, and usually they only have a few lenses so I'm having trouble finding good information.



Jul 14, 2014 at 09:18 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Wakeup from the photo industry?


retrofocus wrote:
I currently see two different developments going in parallel - one is going to sharper lenses with bigger outside filter diameters (82 mm), the other one focuses on smaller lenses and reducing bulk (micro 4/3rd cameras, some mirrorless systems). Canon seems to continue to focus on event shooters where new versions of the 24-70 and 70-200/2.8 lenses were focused on and now also the potential new 100-400. But also Canon's latest TSE versions got bigger and heavier. Even the latest Sony/Zeiss lenses for the mirrorless E-mount are still heavy and quite bulky.

Competition is certainly heating up - just to
...Show more

Canon hasn't been developing just larger lenses:
40 STM
24, 28, 35 IS
Even the superteles have slimmed down.

Non-event shooting:
16-35 f4

And the new Sigma ART lenses are really big relative to the Canon competition, also making the Sony FE lenses look tiny and light.

But I do see your point. All the manufacturers, not just Canon have really stepped up their game. Probably in response to the new higher resolution sensors (current or in development).



Jul 15, 2014 at 01:32 AM





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