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Archive 2014 · Improving PJ skills

  
 
myam203
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Improving PJ skills


I figured it happened that way, but I was more trying to nicely imply that not much is happening in terms of emotion.


Jul 11, 2014 at 01:54 PM
Ian Boys
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Improving PJ skills


I think it's a shot that may appeal photographically but not to the clients.


Jul 12, 2014 at 11:01 AM
leethecam
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Improving PJ skills


Ian Boys wrote:
I think it's a shot that may appeal photographically but not to the clients.


That would depend on the clients...

I've had clients who see the event as a whole, and a creative / mischievous eye for some of the more amusing frames I take, (my favourite sort), and there are others who almost make me cry because they're only interested in shots that make them "look" good and we end up with a characterless album, (at least in my eyes).

For me, the shot with the bridesmaid climbing over the baby frame is priceless. One of the reasons I attend the selection process for album shots is to help clients see the purpose of this sort of image in telling a story.



Jul 13, 2014 at 03:58 AM
heikoM
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Improving PJ skills


myam203 wrote:
The best PJ shots I've seen usually occur when emotions are running high or after putting in a lot of time with the subjects, like spending a month with a group of rebels in some war zone. It's difficult to get great ones at a wedding, because sometimes you just aren't around long enough or maybe the emotions and energy aren't there that day. Those great war shots make you say "holy crap these people live in terror and misery every day", but you can't shoot someone adjusting their dress and elicit the same level of emotion.



I believe there are two things that must be present to make great PJ shots:

1: unawareness of the camera/photographer
2: real emotions

ad 1: this happens either when you spend several days with the subject or when the subject is so strongly involved in something that he just do not care.

both 1 and 2 can be true both in war zones and at weddings. I feel that we get fantastic emotions. You know the moments.

The problem I see is, even if we get the emotions, the bride and the other persons still should look reasonably good. A crying face can indeed look quite ugly. Second, we only have one day to make it count. Photojournalists often immerse themselves for weeks or even longer into a matter and 10 strong images make the final cut.


heiko



Jul 14, 2014 at 05:35 AM
JakAHearts
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Improving PJ skills


So, with some PJ in mind, I tried to take some shots at the park last weekend. I find it very hard to do with my own family because I am always so close. Here are 5 of my favs but I still feel like Im missing some key element. Im always not wide enough to tell the whole story because Im too close. Or something... These are a good documentation but I dont think I have any "moments".

IMG_0659 by shanereighard, on Flickr
IMG_0850 by shanereighard, on Flickr
IMG_0752 by shanereighard, on Flickr
IMG_0704 by shanereighard, on Flickr



Jul 14, 2014 at 08:21 PM
canerino
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Improving PJ skills


Shane, I think those are nice photographs of a family outing.

Did you do any thinking prior to your outing? Did you define any parameters for yourself in regards to "PJ"? Was there any pointed vision? Specific things you intended to capture?

Critically, these are photographs from the camera of a wandering photographer. I said earlier in the thread "I think too often we shoot random happenings and call them 'photojournalism' just because it wasnt staged. But what story is really told?" and this is exactly what I see here.

To be fair, you were at a disadvantage of being both dad and the photographer here. I wrote about that back when I ran a blog on this very topic (www.thefamilyphotojournalist.blogspot.com). I think you'll do yourself a better service by studying up on some principles of photojournalism before you pick up the camera next time to practice PJ.



Jul 14, 2014 at 10:56 PM
form
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Improving PJ skills


Of those images, I don't know what they all have in common besides children, but I do know that in each case I know there are specific things that are absent:

1. Emotions are minimal, not that this is a problem as evidenced by how the "good" photo of bull-debulling shows people busying themselves without much emotion.

2. The depth of field is frequently very narrow, different from some (but not all) "photojournalism" photos. I know that at least ONE benefit to more depth of field (not necessarily everything completely in focus, but just more) is the ability to better utilize multiple layers each helping to tell a story or paint a picture of the situation, e.g. different people doing things all pertaining to a single idea or event.

3. In three of the four images, there is limited interaction or sharing of activity between the main subject and/or any other person(s) or subjects/objects/etc.

4. I would like to know what the child in #1 is looking at, what exactly they are hunting/doing/their goal in #2 (e.g. a visible prize), what the kids in #3 and #4 are thinking/feeling.

Those are what I can think of at the present time.



Jul 14, 2014 at 11:26 PM
JakAHearts
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Improving PJ skills


Im right there with you guys. I know Im weak at this. Thats why I made the post. Chuck, I took these before making this post so no, I didnt put a ton of thought into them. I have to say, Im not sure Ill really want to put a ton of effort into PJ shots with my family outings. I mean, I want the shots, but I also dont want to spend that time looking for and taking those shots. That, plus my three year old son said to me the other day while I was editing a wedding "Daddy, stop working and come play with me." It felt like he had punched me in the gut. I have read most if not all of your blog. I love the information and images in it. Thank you for it!

Form, thanks! These are great thoughts and recommendations. Ive been so concentrated on portrait photography for the last 3 years, I have a hard time clicking the shutter on off beat moments. Thanks!



Jul 15, 2014 at 07:28 AM
JakAHearts
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Improving PJ skills


HAHA! To prove us all wrong, the bride placed the image of her lowering her daughter into the crib as a "favorite" on the proofing site. Granted, the image could be a lot stronger, but apparently she likes it.


Jul 15, 2014 at 08:52 AM
canerino
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Improving PJ skills


JakAHearts wrote:
Im right there with you guys. I know Im weak at this. Thats why I made the post. Chuck, I took these before making this post so no, I didnt put a ton of thought into them. I have to say, Im not sure Ill really want to put a ton of effort into PJ shots with my family outings. I mean, I want the shots, but I also dont want to spend that time looking for and taking those shots.
Thanks!



That's the interesting thing for me...once I narrowed things down and started to know exactly what I'm looking for with my PJ work, I shoot FAR less and it is WAY less effort.



Jul 15, 2014 at 09:51 AM
JakAHearts
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Improving PJ skills


That is interesting. Perhaps Ill try this again at the local fair next month after some study. Thanks again for all your help.


Jul 15, 2014 at 10:09 AM
fstopperdown
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Improving PJ skills


You are too hard on yourself.

You have one client and if this was representative of the work you provide over the course of a day and 1000 images, then you have happy clients.

A real PJ might get one image to communicate with 10,000.

A wide gulf, and both may need an eight hour day to succeed.

A Hollywood set designer couldn't recreate the bull clipping of the wedding tackle, and you cannot bring out emotion in children eating ice cream.

You can anticipate but rarely participate.

It's rewarding in many, many ways shooting for a newspaper or magazine. I encourage you to go beyond family and friends and shooting non weddings if you have the time to invest.









Jul 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM
XPO239
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Improving PJ skills


widjayaman wrote:
Foundation is worth it's cost many times over. imho.


I've never taken Foundation, but I know many people who have. They all have different takes on weather the money spent on it was worth it for them. Some felt that it was a great workshop, but wasn't worth the money. Some felt that the money was very worth it and more. With that said, I'm still saving up to attend the workshop!



Jul 15, 2014 at 01:02 PM
XPO239
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Improving PJ skills


Lanny Mann wrote:
The difference between giving our couples true PJ photos versus 'staged PJ', is that the photos can make them remember entirely different things. A true PJ photograph will make them remember the moment they were experiencing at the time... the thing they were doing (for example, putting on a shirt in preparation for the ceremony). A pretend PJ photo will also make them remember the moment they were experiencing at the time... the thing they were doing (for example, putting on a shirt... again... in just the right spot... for my photographer to make this photo). The PJ photo
...Show more


++++1



Jul 15, 2014 at 01:03 PM
D. Diggler
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Improving PJ skills


XPO239 wrote:
.
Lanny Mann wrote:
The PJ photo can make them think, "oh yeah, I remember the anticipation and excitement I was feeling while I got ready for the ceremony." The 'staged PJ' photo can make them think, "oh yeah, I remember my photographer asking me to put on my shirt for a second time in just the right spot." One is a photo of something real, something authentic. The other is a photo of something that might look real, but won't necessarily feel real (for the subject


Makes sense. Well put.




Jul 16, 2014 at 03:32 AM
unravel
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Improving PJ skills


ive seen advice of doing actual PJ to improve, has anyone done this? How did you go about it?


Jul 16, 2014 at 05:55 AM
fstopperdown
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Improving PJ skills


When my day job allows, I shoot for a local weekly newspaper. Have done so off and on for almost a decade.

A press pass is golden. It helps eliminate the creep/geek factor of street photography and some other pursuits.

You will only be limited by the time you can commit and your imagination.






Jul 16, 2014 at 09:02 AM
Littleguy
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Improving PJ skills


MIT has made their 2009 course available online - Documentary Photography and Photojournalism: Still Images of a World in Motion.

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/writing-and-humanistic-studies/21w-749-documentary-photography-and-photojournalism-still-images-of-a-world-in-motion-spring-2009/syllabus/

JakAHearts wrote:
Good photojournalism is something I really struggle with and is something I feel like I am missing from my wedding work. I practice other aspects of wedding photography on the regular and am, as they say, a permanent student of light. Im at a loss on how to practice my PJ skills though. Are there books or other resources? (aside from the 4 million dollar workshop)





Jul 21, 2014 at 03:13 PM
Lanny Mann
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Improving PJ skills


Foundation leader, Tyler Wirken, will be preaching and teaching the intricacies of wedding PJ for 3 days on Creative Live starting tomorrow! Tyler's wedding PJ work is outstanding, and his ability to educate and inspire is second to none! I'd highly recommend this one for anyone looking to improve their PJ skills.

https://www.creativelive.com/courses/documentary-wedding-photography-capturing-reality-tyler-wirken



Aug 24, 2014 at 12:42 PM
Micky Bill
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Improving PJ skills


Hi Lanny, did you take the course? Do you have any details about what you found valuable?



Aug 24, 2014 at 02:27 PM
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