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Archive 2014 · Enlighten me on manual focus?

  
 
Ghostinz
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


I see a lot on here about how people love their manual focus lenses and enjoy using them.

My question is why??

Now..before everyone gets fired up, please understand this is a legit question looking for an answer. I only have one manual focus glass, a Samyang 14mm that I use for wide shots. Very forgiving. Optical quality aside, what is the appeal? I cant envision myself ever really using manual glass. While I would love the rendering of a Zeiss 100mm, honestly my eyes just aren't good enough to consistently trust manual focus.....



Jul 01, 2014 at 12:42 AM
Duncan Staples
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


You answered your own question. It is primarily due to the lens characteristics from distortion to flare control to outright resolution (resolving power).

It isn't because people want to manually focus just for fun, it is because they are using a lens to fit a specific purpose that isn't available say in the auto-focus world.



Jul 01, 2014 at 12:45 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


It is a different way of working - slower, more predictive, perhaps even enjoying serendipity when you do get a great shot.

Thousands of past images - pre-AF - were never quite in focus, but were esteemed for their content rather than technical perfection. Nowadays all that has changed and most people rave about technically great images, and think less of impressionist photography.

Plus, in using manual lenses you can often get a lot of 'character' in a lens. As well as being able to buy faster glass cheaper than its AF equivalent. Manual lenses are joys to own - it is nice to own a little piece of history.

They can be much smaller than AF lenses - not in every case, but often enough.



Jul 01, 2014 at 12:48 AM
Ghostinz
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


I can't be the only person with eyes that aren't 20/20 anymore.. how do you guys work around that? I used to love the old prism focus systems on the film cameras.


Jul 01, 2014 at 12:58 AM
the solitaire
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


I really enjoy manual focus lenses. There are several things that appeal to me.

The initial reason to get rid of some AF lenses I owned in favor of manual focus lenses was size. Even if they often weigh more, manual focus lenses often are really small packages compared to their AF counterparts. This benefit gets smaller as soon as focal length increases and Apertures get wider.

I soon found that using manual focus lenses the way I did back when I only owned a Nikon FM2 works just as well for digital. For my shooting style I did not find a drawback in not having AF.

Another thing is accuracy. Manual focus lenses were made to be focused manually. They offer better accuracy doing so then AF lenses switched to MF.

One more thing is that there are lenses like the 105mm f2,5 or 55mm f1,2 that were never offered in AF. There you'll find the karakter bit, often definded by where the lenses are sharp and where they are less sharp, rendering, color, contrast. All the bits where these older MF lenses are different from their modern AF counterparts.

Handling is big. A lens made completely of metal and glass just feels and handles different from a lens containing mostly plastic parts, regardless of whether these are high quality plastics or not. That and these lenses have an Aperture ring that needs to be operated on the lens rather then through a command dial. In my head this makes more sense because the Aperture is controlled on the lens and I use my left hand to make the adjustment rather then the hand further away from the lens. My right hand therefor remains free to grip the camera and operate the shutter release as well as operate various other camera functions like the Fn button that combined with the command dial lets me change the non-CPU lens settings.

And one last thing I would not want to leave out is that some manual focus lenses look amazing when mounted on a camera or put on a shelf.



Jul 01, 2014 at 01:21 AM
John Skinner
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


This....in some way, reminded me of when SLR bodies came out as Auto Focus.

I sat looking oddly at the camera and wondered 'how am I ever going to get use to NOT touching the barrel'?

There are a slew of times I personally need to feel that connection AS A WHOLE with the tool I'm working with. I don't want or need 39 or 51 point anything except what I seeing.

This is like a metaphor from a line in the movie 'Colors'..

"2 bulls sitting on a hillside. The younger one says to his pop...'Hey! why don't we run down there and screw one of those cows !?!. The Father looks over at the younger one and says 'Why don't we walk down and screw'em all'".

Sometimes it's just about making images... Not to be rushed or passed by. Just you a body, and some really nice old glass.

THAT'S why I shoot manual lenses.



Jul 01, 2014 at 01:46 AM
philber
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


Actually, I would split manual focus lenses in two groups, based on which camera they are used with. On a DSLR camera, or a mirrorless. Not counting the specail brand of focusing which is manual on a rangefinder camera (Leica M).
On a DSLR, basically you use MF when you don't have AF because the lens won't AF: Zeiss Z* for Canon and Nikon, Vogtlānder, adapted alt lenses. Though some people prefer MF over AF in this category, claiming it gives them more control
On a mirrorless, you get considerable visual aids to focusing: LiveView magnification, focus peaking. Many users claim that, with these adids, focusing manually on a mirrorless becomes much easier than on a DSLR. And it opens up vast numbers of lenses which can be used with an adapter.



Jul 01, 2014 at 02:58 AM
leighton w
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


There are many reasons why I love shooting with MF lenses but I know they're not for everyone.

1) They slow me down and make me feel a part of the photographic process.

2) The image characteristics from some of these old Nikkors are absolutely fantastic!

3) The feel itself of the lens, the quality of materials used.

4) The weight and size compared to the same AF lens.

5) The cost. I just bought a 35mm f1.4 AIS in excellent condition for $350. Try getting an AF version from any manufacturer for that.

6) They're just plain fun to use.

YMMV.



Jul 01, 2014 at 04:58 AM
Mnd1
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


The Zeiss ZF.2 lenses allow all the usual exposure modes of the camera so all you need to be concerned about is the focus. I'm not certain about other models but the D800 gives you the focus indicators in the viewfinder. > O < you turn the lens in the direction indicated by the arrow and the green dot appears when you are in focus. On cameras with live view you can get really precise focus for subjects such as flowers using a tripod. Apart from a Nikon 300f4 and the 80-400 all my lenses are manual focus. It's all practice, the more you use them the faster you can focus.


Jul 01, 2014 at 05:02 AM
the solitaire
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


philber wrote:
Actually, I would split manual focus lenses in two groups, based on which camera they are used with. On a DSLR camera, or a mirrorless. Not counting the specail brand of focusing which is manual on a rangefinder camera (Leica M).
On a DSLR, basically you use MF when you don't have AF because the lens won't AF: Zeiss Z* for Canon and Nikon, Vogtlānder, adapted alt lenses. Though some people prefer MF over AF in this category, claiming it gives them more control
On a mirrorless, you get considerable visual aids to focusing: LiveView magnification, focus peaking. Many users claim that,
...Show more


I would rather place the users in two groups instead of the lenses. The lens remains the same regardless of whether it is used on a mirrorless camera or on a DSLR or rangefinder camera.

Once you get down to really wide apertures it's no longer a matter of "claiming" better control. Tolerances in AF, misalignment of lens elements and/or focus module (within or outside of manufacturer tolerances) and the whole computational error thing becomes tricky with an 85mm f1,4 lens. Either it focuses slow and reliably (AF-S) or faster but less accurate due to mechanical tolerances (AF-D) but both will hunt a bit to aquire focus, worse when the lights go out.

When living in macro-world again you will notice that AF tends to hunt every so now and then or plain fails to aquire focus. Close up and handheld with wide open aperture the same thing.

So, not only availability of an AF alternative becomes a reason to choose to focus manually. Intended use also plays a big part in this choice.

I tried this whole focus peaking trick and never got to like it much. Live View is even worse. Both take the speed out of my photographic process. For landscapes on tripod I could imagine using live view if I would use something like a 10" external screen to compose the scape.

It is in the end all a matter of personal preference. As Leighton already mentioned, the way manual focus effectively prevents you to point&shoot and the tactile experience of using some of these beautifully crafted lenses really help some (including me) to enjoy photography as more then merely an image making process.



Jul 01, 2014 at 05:43 AM
DaveOls
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


In addition to what has already been said about the much better build quality is the price of a used MF lens is considerably less and I really like having an aperture ring that can be used. Don't know why the new lenses have left them off. Was it to save $ 5 on each lens?


Jul 01, 2014 at 06:00 AM
pnetz
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


Interesting question, I also often wonder about the usability of MF on modern bodies.

Do you change their focusing screen to aid in MF usage, or only work with the existing focus confirm features?

I enjoy the easily accessible MF handling of my Nikon AF lenses. I would use MF more often with a proper focusing screen, but tracking the focus confirm dot while composing just feels off...



Jul 01, 2014 at 07:19 AM
sandycrane
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


I have almost all MF lenses. I really like the Zeiss line, and selected Nikkors. I don't take action photos. I primarily use the focus confirmation LED with great success on my d700 and I also have a split screen finder and eyepiece magnification as a fallback.


Jul 01, 2014 at 07:24 AM
panos.v
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


DaveOls wrote:
In addition to what has already been said about the much better build quality is the price of a used MF lens is considerably less and I really like having an aperture ring that can be used. Don't know why the new lenses have left them off. Was it to save $ 5 on each lens?


The mount becomes a lot simpler without the lever and springs and all that stuff they had so it is a parts, manufacturing and design improvement. The electromagnetic control is probably more reliable too. Also makes it easier to weather seal a lens when there are fewer moving parts on the outside.

Besides, even if it was $5 per lens when you sell a million...



Jul 01, 2014 at 07:41 AM
panos.v
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


The big tragedy (ok...maybe not) with Nikon is that they simply won't sell you a decent focus screen for manual lenses. With my FM2n and its plain matte (no aid) I could nail focus anywhere on the screen at f/1.4. On anything more modern they just won't show you DOF below f/2.8 so you have no idea where you are focusing when at f/1.4 or f/2. Canon makes the S type screens which are superb for this kind of thing. I don't understand why Nikon won't spend a day redesigning the FM screens to fit on new cameras. It's a piece of plastic they can sell for $30 making 99% profit on it. Then again, they won't even let you change the screen on most cameras...


Jul 01, 2014 at 07:45 AM
Chaz
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


Ghostinz wrote: I only have one manual focus glass, a Samyang 14mm that I use for wide shots. Very forgiving. Optical quality aside, what is the appeal? I cant envision myself ever really using manual glass. While I would love the rendering of a Zeiss 100mm, honestly my eyes just aren't good enough to consistently trust manual focus.....

First, you're right - MF would be extremely difficult with something as wide as your 14mm Samyang without an old split screen-type focusing screen. Thus, for your wide landscapes you're most likely using hyperfocal distance and/or stopping way down when needed.

As far as your eyesight is concerned - count me among those in the same situation.

But, with the camera diopter adjustment and wracking focus in and out I can still see a point that appears to be sharpest. Then, with the ability to "chimp" and magnify, voila - not a big problem.

Of course, I don't shoot moving action scenes in this way - just landscapes.

Thus, I like my old MF lenses for all the various reasons enumerated by others above.



Jul 01, 2014 at 10:59 AM
Weasel_Loader
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


I loved the feel of MF Nikon lenses, but I honestly missed too many shots for my type of shooting. No problem if I were taking photos of static objects, but most of my stuff is action or people. When I used MF lenses, I wouldn't get the expressions I wanted since it took more time for me to focus while they hold still. With AF lenses, I can pop off a shot before they get time to change expression (great for the shy people in my family that never like their photos taken).

I also find the older lenses too soft for my liking when wide open.



Jul 01, 2014 at 11:21 AM
MitchSC
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


Why? Price, quality and pure enjoyment. I'm not going to give up my Af/AFS lens but some times I just enjoy slowing down especially if my shoulder is sore from to much hand held BIF. I also have the eyesight problem but with the camera diopter set to +3 and using the Dot as confirmation I don't find it to be an issue.


Jul 01, 2014 at 11:28 AM
CAlbertson
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


Ghostinz wrote:
I see a lot on here about how people love their manual focus lenses and enjoy using them.

My question is why??

Now..before everyone gets fired up, please understand this is a legit question looking for an answer. I only have one manual focus glass, a Samyang 14mm that I use for wide shots. Very forgiving. Optical quality aside, what is the appeal? I cant envision myself ever really using manual glass. While I would love the rendering of a Zeiss 100mm, honestly my eyes just aren't good enough to consistently trust manual focus.....


The older Nikon MF lenses had a build quality that is far better then even the best lenses being made today. It is not even close. To see this you need to see a Nikon, not a Samyang lens. But this heavy construction style was not at all suitable to autofocus motors. Turning such a heavy lens made from solid brass would require a focus motor is heavy as the lens itself and a huge battery to power the huge motor. So they had to go to a light weight, mostly plastic construction. Many people simply like the old solid brass.

One really big problem with MF lenses is the autofocus bodies lack the old style focus screens. With a micro prism and split prism screen it was very easy and fast to manually focus a lens even if your eyes were not good. It was fast and easy. But now with modern focus screens you are dependent on either very good eyesight or that green focus indicator light. It is not so fast and easy. I used to be able to shoot a football game with MF lenses but they was with a film body. I could never do this with a digital body, the focus screens are not optimized for MF.

But one area where MF lenses are used on new digital AF cameras is by serious film makers shooting video. Typcally these guys focus by using a tape measure and the distance scale. Cine lenses all have VERY good distance scales and low gearing so you need to turn them a lot to move focus a little. It is common to have two people working the camera. One to frame the shot by looking in the viewfinder and one person to move the focus ring based on pre-measured distances. Some will even make tape marks on the floor for the actors to stand on with matching tape marks on the lens. The old manual focus lenses that Nikon made are very popular with film makers. Many times they add third party gearing to the lens to allow for fine focus control and space for grease pencil marks.

I noticed that a couple of my Nikon MF primes are worth 3X more on the used market than I paid for them because of their use for video. I bought them when these were almost being tossed in dumpsters but video is where these are being used now.

For most general photography using digital bodies there is not much reason to shoot with MF lenses. But MF works well enough for subjects the can wait, like architecture or product shots, you don't need the speed and can even take out a tape measure and look up a hyper focal distance for your f-stop and then just use the distance scale. MF works well enough for this. On the other hand it's not a good way to shoot a football game.



Jul 01, 2014 at 12:14 PM
CAlbertson
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Enlighten me on manual focus?


leighton w wrote:
There are many reasons why I love shooting with MF lenses but I know they're not for everyone.

1) They slow me down and make me feel a part of the photographic process. ...


The flip side of this is that your range of possible subjects is reduced to only those who can wait while you mess around with the camera focus. Somethings you really can't shoot MF are birds in flight or many kinds of sports.

And then if you are doing this for a living "slowing down" simply means that your pay per hour worked is reduced. Or if you are shooting an event you productivity is reduced and you come back with fewer marketable shots. But as a hobbyist you don't care so much about productivity.



Jul 01, 2014 at 12:46 PM
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