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Archive 2014 · "Flat" Landscapes

  
 
Camperjim
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · "Flat" Landscapes


I seem to frequently have an issue with landscapes that I can best describe as "flat." Sharpness, contrast and lighting just seem to be too consistent throughout the image. These landscapes lack a sense of depth and do not hold the viewer's interest.

The first image is pretty much out of camera with minor adjustments of the raw image for contrast, saturation and sharpness. For the second image, I tried to correct the "flatness" by dodging, burning and adding a vignette. I may have overdone the processing but I still seem to have an image that just does not hold the viewer's interest.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Jim





Mammoth Yellowstone







Mammoth Yellowstone - dodge and burn




Jun 28, 2014 at 11:14 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · "Flat" Landscapes


Hi Jim, hard for me to tell the difference between them which may explain my lack of visual acuity more than anything else.

When I open in ACR, I usually use auto and that often gives a lot of shadow, I have found even +50 is not harmful (to my eyes). But after I see what auto does, I usually pull back whites and exposure. I do not use sat, clarity or vibrance in ACR. I try to make sure I have no blown clouds or other areas.

I work in LAB these days and have found that putting the image in lightness mode (no color) and using shadow highlight can add some pop to an image. I use it very lightly and the one that really helps is the midtone contrast slider. For images with poor contrast, I may use +10 contrast and -5 brightness. If I want to recover some highlights, I try to stay under 20. And for shadow, I try to stay under 5.

Another thing I do is try to get my darkest spot around 5,5,5. This black point correction often helps a lot. A linear curve often helps as well.

Thats pretty much how I work for exposure and contrast for images that do not require blending multi images. But then I have no idea if the folks here like my processing, I don't get much feedback in that regard other than the occasional overprocessed for my blends.





Jun 28, 2014 at 11:29 AM
Camperjim
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · "Flat" Landscapes


Ben, there was a very big difference between these before I downsized and posted. Now I agree it is hard to see any difference. I even reposted thinking I had posted the same image twice. Thanks for the comments


Jun 28, 2014 at 12:13 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · "Flat" Landscapes


Camperjim wrote:
Ben, there was a very big difference between these before I downsized and posted. Now I agree it is hard to see any difference. I even reposted thinking I had posted the same image twice. Thanks for the comments


Yep, downsizing really screws up an image, especially if you are used to viewing on a large wide gamut monitor. This will only get worse when we eventually shift to 4k monitors.

By the way, I like this image but would like it better without that dead foreground tree. The vertical tree does not bother for some reason, just the one lying on the ground.



Jun 28, 2014 at 12:29 PM
FarmerJohn
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · "Flat" Landscapes


Jim - I agree with Ben's suggestions to get rid of the horizontal foreground tree. I played around a little with it on my screen and I liked that quite a bit more. I cropped and used the clone/heal tool to get rid of the branches.

I also brightened the overall image, then reduced the shadows and highlights, then did some dodging and burning around the steam, and lightening of the white area, and some high contrast/clarity/sharpness/sat brushing around the steam and sky.

Goal was trying to get the eye to follow the white area to the steam. Not sure i was completely successful, but an alternative at least.









Jun 28, 2014 at 03:51 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · "Flat" Landscapes


Nice clone job, I do prefer this one.


Jun 28, 2014 at 03:54 PM
AuntiPode
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · "Flat" Landscapes


To counter a flat scene, I usually try to use selective exposure and gamma changes, and using the USM (16, 60, 0) to modify mid-tone contrast. Of these I find gamma most useful. I usually reserve dodging and burning for small selected light/dark finishing changes where contrast should remain the same. If you select part of the image and bump the gamma, it darkens the selection and adds contrast. (It can also make colors seem more saturated. If you don't want the saturation to change, use the same selection and lower the vibrance or saturation.) If you want to lower the contrast and darken, reduce the gamma and exposure of the selection. (I've never seen anyone else suggest this technique, that I recall. It may be poor observation of memory on my part.) But this technique lets me add snap and I use it to make images look less flat. Of course selection is key and refining the edge of the selections is important. Give it a try.


Jun 28, 2014 at 05:30 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · "Flat" Landscapes


Depth is a perception based on the variation/difference.

When we selectively vary our tools (sharpness, contrast, saturation, gamma, exposure, hue, etc.) that are largely based on HSL in one form, combination or another, we can create the differences that global application often cannot. Also, variation in blend modes is another tool that can help drive controlled variation.

Many times when we talk about "great light" it is a lighting scenario that has "great" variation in one form or another in different areas of the image. Our beloved "flat" lighting on the other hand, has little deviation in lighting patterns, contrasts, etc.

In that regard, whenever I desire to create depth, I try to imagine a different lighting, but still reading the direction appropriate to the scene orientation / time of day. From that, I will look to make a variety of selective adjustments ... all depending on what I think I would have expected to see, had the lighting been a bit different.

To that end, masks are invaluable for selective application ... but our available tools are much more than D&B and contrast. A little push/pull of several can render a bit more depth than one starts with.

For me, I try to study paintings & trompe' l'oeil (fool the eye) to see what it was that the artist utilized to create his depth. While he has full control, and we may only have partial control in PP (things like shape/mass aren't going to change much post-capture) ... tonal values, color/sat & sharpness/blur seem to be the ones I lean on the most.

One other thing that I find steals from depth is color casts (slight as they might be).

HTH



I've never been to Yellowstone, so it's a tough one for me to envision all its uniqueness. Here's a little "this & that" as a crude representation of the change. This is a rather complex scene, so it deserves quite a bit more attention and may be a bit overdone for illustration, but hopefully you get some of the gist.







Jun 28, 2014 at 08:35 PM
dalekirk
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · "Flat" Landscapes


I so appreciate your delicate hand on creating an image the viewer is lead to the light....great example, thank you


Jun 29, 2014 at 03:48 PM
Camperjim
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · "Flat" Landscapes


Thanks for all of the comments. Unfortunately I have difficulty accessing the internet so I am not able to discuss the issues but I have picked up a lot of helpful ideas



Jun 29, 2014 at 06:47 PM
robots4joey
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · "Flat" Landscapes


He he... I read something else into this thread title!

I'm from Kansas



Jun 30, 2014 at 09:51 AM
lylejk
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · "Flat" Landscapes


Fake HDR.




Jul 01, 2014 at 09:46 PM
Camperjim
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · "Flat" Landscapes


Now that it is around 11pm, I may have a minimal internet connection. I am in the Canyon campground at Yellowstone. I have a strong signal but it appears that there are just too many users and the cell/internet system is swamped.

Kent, RustyBug, seems to be looking at the issues I have been considering. I spent over a year doing flower photography with the goal of making the viewer feel that they were inside the flower. With lots of effort I had some level of success. Now that I am back to landscape photography the techniques I tried to master for flower photography just do not work. I am again trying to bring the viewer into the scene.

Beauty, realism and many other considerations do interest me. I am not looking for shock and awe or maximum impact. I am not sure I can describe what I what to accomplish but I am trying to draw the viewer into the scene. Part of that is a sense of scale but much more it possible.



Jul 02, 2014 at 12:11 AM
tommycrow
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · "Flat" Landscapes


Your second image looks great. I don't think it needs more than a bit of d&b and a little work with the raw.


Jul 10, 2014 at 02:16 PM
tommycrow
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · "Flat" Landscapes


Your second image looks great. I don't think it needs more than a bit of d&b and a little work with the raw.


Jul 10, 2014 at 02:16 PM
mihunter62
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · "Flat" Landscapes


I'm not sure this is of any use, I've just started to look closer to the color charts they provide and realizing that it does work, however we have to generally work with what we start with.
http://www.zevendesign.com/1655/blog/creating-depth-art-photography/

If it doesn't apply to this specific topic, maybe someone down the road will find it useful.

I still love the image, while I look out my window at a tree and some grass. Hope you are having/had a great trip.
Mike



Jul 13, 2014 at 06:50 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · "Flat" Landscapes


Mike,

Nice article ... picked up a few pieces to add to the arsenal. Had not heard about the reversal @ black/white base before.

+1 @ what you have to work with ... but understanding where your push/pull relationships are can be of value at how to harmonize or drive the pieces of the puzzle.



Jul 13, 2014 at 08:49 PM
JAUrrutia9
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · "Flat" Landscapes


The dodge and burn file you originally posted is the best. It brings out the stark/harsh nature of the scene. I've been to this spot and I really admire what you've done with the image composition. I really like how you've incorporated the mountains into the background. The dark peaks also contrast well with the white rock and steam. Well done!


Jul 22, 2014 at 08:28 PM





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