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Archive 2014 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows

  
 
ben egbert
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


I go here each spring to catch a sunrise reflected in the Bear River at Christmas meadows in the high Unitas Mountains of Utah. I have taken horizontals and could show them if interested but I think this is a vertical scene.

I have two to show and will post SOOC if asked. The first catches the pre sunrise cloud show, and requires a high somewhat centered composition to get the top cloud and its reflection in the water. Show me alternate crops.

The second catches a very brief bit of color on the peak and allows a better crop IMO, but lacks sky drama.
This is the only place where I can approach the water’s edge and have a good view of the mountains and reflection. Much wider would include cabins and shadowed hills left and right and a diminishing of the mountains.

The question is what needs to change here? How would you crop it? Given the limits I mentioned, is this a non-starter?

I think it’s a pretty scene, but can it be a world class iconic scene? Your opinions on this as well.

Also any processing comments? Color, brightness, saturation etc.













Jun 25, 2014 at 09:35 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


Here are the sooc.












Jun 25, 2014 at 09:39 AM
AuntiPode
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


If you start from the requirement that the reflection be the same as the sky, you've forced the composition into a visually static state. The solution is to drop the requirement for the sky to match the reflection:





better







best




Jun 25, 2014 at 03:06 PM
Wildcats_Fans
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


Are you planning to print this? If so, what format?


Jun 25, 2014 at 03:56 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


AuntiPode wrote:
If you start from the requirement that the reflection be the same as the sky, you've forced the composition into a visually static state. The solution is to drop the requirement for the sky to match the reflection:


Thanks Karen, this is exactly what I wanted to know. Nothing lost in shooting it this way, The width I wanted to include dictated the FL and there was nothing top or bottom to add to the compositon.

I have a nicer sky from last year that I printed cropped about like your best.

I do these over and over in hopes of finding some killer light and also to learn. Some I do over because I have better gear. Mostly I do it for the fun of it.

Edit. I just picked up the bit about matching reflections being static. So is this something to consider when shooting? I work hard to get them to match which means not cutting anything out. I have never considered this.

Edited on Jun 25, 2014 at 04:38 PM · View previous versions



Jun 25, 2014 at 04:28 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


Wildcats_Fans wrote:
Are you planning to print this? If so, what format?


No, I already have one printed from last year with more color. Its 16x20. I hoped for even better drama and planned on the same size. Very close to Karens best crop version.





last years image




Jun 25, 2014 at 04:30 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


The question lingering in my mind is if this is a place worth the not insignificant trouble to return to?

I post these shots of places I can reach from home at certain times of the year, but which are not well known icons. But they may not be icons for a reason.

I tend to think that a high snow capped mountain, reflected in a meadow stream with cloud color is what we landscapers dream of. But this is no Schwabacher Landing or Oxbow Bend which is the standard by which it will be judged.

Still, I always learn something, like not needing all the reflection.

I hope in my upcomming posts of landscapes from this trip that you will keep in mind that I am also seeking comments on the place itself, not just how well I did it. The choice of what to take is a big part or landscape photography.






Jun 26, 2014 at 08:43 AM
sbeme
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


I am totally with Karen on the alternate crops of the first image.
However, I also am a fan of symmetry and the original crop does not bother me as an alternative. Nothing wrong with serene and beautiful.
Last year's image is overprocessed to my taste. Too much contrast, too much saturation, especially in the grasses and water.
Scott



Jun 26, 2014 at 08:57 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


sbeme wrote:
I am totally with Karen on the alternate crops of the first image.
However, I also am a fan of symmetry and the original crop does not bother me as an alternative. Nothing wrong with serene and beautiful.
Last year's image is overprocessed to my taste. Too much contrast, too much saturation, especially in the grasses and water.
Scott


Thanks Scott and I agree on the processing of last years image, I have changed my work flow a lot since then. That copy is from my FM archives. Do you think this years version is still over processed?

I also think my longer FL from this year works better than last years. In that case, I was trying to get all the color, but in the process, I diminish the mountain. One problem with these valleys that are leading to a mountain is that wider angle lenses tend to make the sides of the valley more prominent than the mountain.

Another thing I have noticed is that often the cloud color is not as intimately connected with the main subject as it needs to be. I have a Grand Canyon shot with fantastic clouds but way too much sky between the canyon edge and the color and it has been impossible for me to make that shot work.

There is an Oxbow Bend shot at the Landscape forum with the same issue. To get the color, they need to include too much sky.

Nobody said anything about the second image here. I sort of like it, but noticed I favored the sky over the water when I cropped. I wanted that bit of cloud at the top, the water that I cropped was pretty featureless.




Edited on Jun 26, 2014 at 04:07 PM · View previous versions



Jun 26, 2014 at 11:05 AM
Camperjim
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


I have no problem with the symmetrical composition. In fact I think that sort of composition usually works best with reflections. A common solution to this issue is to include a rock or other element in the foreground and then include less of the sky. Of course placing the horizon in thirds would satisfy another "rule." There are also plenty of cases where it seems that the photographer was struggling to find some element in the foreground. Often they find something which is not very interesting but becomes a dominant element of the image.

I agree with Antipode, it is a good idea to try different crops and to avoid centered compositions. For your image, I still think I prefer the symmetrical and centered horizon.



Jun 26, 2014 at 02:36 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Help with a composition at Christmas Meadows


Camperjim wrote:
I have no problem with the symmetrical composition. In fact I think that sort of composition usually works best with reflections. A common solution to this issue is to include a rock or other element in the foreground and then include less of the sky. Of course placing the horizon in thirds would satisfy another "rule." There are also plenty of cases where it seems that the photographer was struggling to find some element in the foreground. Often they find something which is not very interesting but becomes a dominant element of the image.

I agree with Antipode, it is a
...Show more

Thanks for the comments Jim. I am not sure this place has a good comp however. I would need to bring my own rock and find a place to put it

This is my second year here and probably my last, I will look for other places.

I have another reflection series to show later and many have the same issue because I was trying to get all the reflection included, although it is a mountain not a sky.



Jun 26, 2014 at 03:40 PM





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