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Archive 2014 · battle so the 85s

  
 
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · battle so the 85s


For anyone interested, I shot a Sony Carl Zeiss, Samyang 85 1.4, and Canon FD 85 1.2 on an A7 at f1.2, 1.4, 2 and 2.8. I also shot a fuji 56 1.2 @ 1.2, 1.4, 2, and 2.8. All RAW, base ISO, with manual focus. Shot near MFD, a friend as a model. I have the RAWs.

It's not the most scientific of test, but I found it helpful/interesting.

If someone can tell me a place to upload the RAWs, I can share them with everyone if you are all interested. I love the 85 FL, and I only wanted to keep one or two of the lenses, so this shoot out was interested for me.




Jun 23, 2014 at 02:10 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · battle so the 85s


Sounds interesting. You could do it in a public Drop Box.


Jun 23, 2014 at 02:29 PM
Greggf
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · battle so the 85s


You could sell all those lenses, and pick up a Leica Summilux R 80, and be set.
Gregg



Jun 23, 2014 at 02:34 PM
WhyFi
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · battle so the 85s


Greggf wrote:
You could sell all those lenses, and pick up a Leica Summilux R 80, and be set.
Gregg



Stop it, you! You've sown enough temptation with that 'lux R 80 already!



Jun 23, 2014 at 03:34 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · battle so the 85s


WhyFi wrote:
Stop it, you! You've sown enough temptation with that 'lux R 80 already!


I am interested in that suggestion--I look at the lens a while back, but aside from the Leica badge and build, it didn't seem tremendous, relative to other the options like a Canon 85L, or Sony Carl Zeiss. But then again, I haven't used it, and those are just reviews. Care to point/show me something compelling?



Jun 23, 2014 at 03:58 PM
WhyFi
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · battle so the 85s


nehemiahphoto wroteI am interested in that suggestion--I look at the lens a while back, but aside from the Leica badge and build, it didn't seem tremendous, relative to other the options like a Canon 85L, or Sony Carl Zeiss. But then again, I haven't used it, and those are just reviews. Care to point/show me something compelling?

I hadn't known of it previously, but he and a couple others have put up some recent shots in the Leica R thread and I really like what I see - color, bokeh, contrast, sharpness (although it seems that others have been unhappy with the sharpness that they've seen out of their copies, I guess) and that rendering style that (to me) suggests texture and shape/dimensionality.



Jun 23, 2014 at 05:48 PM
cogitech
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · battle so the 85s


I've seen direct comparisons of the Summilux and the Samyang/Rokinon. I would choose the Samyang/Rokinon if given the choice. Sharper and better bokeh. Colour is the easiest thing to change in post. It is all subjective, however.


Jun 23, 2014 at 05:53 PM
Greggf
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · battle so the 85s


Sharper and better bokeh...
Sharper wide open, maybe, but definitely not better bokeh... OOf transition with the R80 is pretty nice. but like you said, it is all subjective



Jun 23, 2014 at 06:01 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · battle so the 85s


Sharper and better bokeh

Greggf wrote:
...
Sharper wide open, maybe, but definitely not better bokeh... OOf transition with the R80 is pretty nice. but like you said, it is all subjective

I see in your profile that you're sporting the CY 28, CY 35-70 and a couple Lux Rs.

I just got the A7R + Sony 55 f1.8 and I'm looking to round out a versatile and light travel kit.
For the first week I took the A7R + CY35-70 on a short vacay and loved this little kit.
Just took my CY 28 out for a test drive this weekend and like the look of it also.

So part of my kit looks similar to yours and this has me interested in your choice for short tele.
From what I've seen out of your Leica R80, I've become very interested.
Any reservations or complaints (besides the price) in regards to the R80?
Have you directly compared it to any of the OPs lens options?



Jun 23, 2014 at 06:14 PM
Greggf
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · battle so the 85s


Have you directly compared it to any of the OPs lens options? This is to the OP, too...
I have shot with the Samyang 85, and yes it's a great lens for the price. I think, and some time long ago, someone compared it to the ZE/ZF 85 and it was very close(also subjective). I had at the same time the Contax 85 1.4 MMJ, and WO, the Samyang WAS sharper, but stopped down a little, it was really close, with the MMJ probably a tad better. I hear the FD 85 1.2 is a very nice lens, but have no experience with it.
As far as the R80 goes, IMO, it may not be the sharpest 80-85 out there(although my copy is pretty sharp WO), and stopped down it's very sharp(but not 100 Planar sharp, if you get my drift)...it's the, as Whyfi above put it, the presence of the images that strike me the most!! It just has a look, that well, is just the R80, and other "Mandler" lenses that he created.
I took it to a friends farm yesterday, in bright daylight and used it, and as such, looked like any other 80ish lens(because of the overhead light)...but when used in after hours or times when there isn't direct light, it's character really comes into play.
So part of my kit looks similar to yours and this has me interested in your choice for short tele...
To be honest, I got a pretty good price on my copy, and I looked for a LONG time, until a seller contacted me with this one, and gave me a price I couldn't refuse! Up to that point, I had been using a R90 Cron with FANTASTIC results, which Jeremy(cputeq) now has. Between the R90 Cron, or M90 Cron pre ASPH, would be your best bet for short tele. Plus, either of those are much lighter than the R80. I finally got a grip to use on the A7, because of the R80( and to no lesser extent, my 2/100 Planar) which makes it much more bearable!
Here are a few shots to look at, and I am by no means the only R80 user here. Several FM'ers are what got me on to this lens, and I thank them!!
These were all taken WO, and are reposts from either the Leica R, "Mandler", or A7(r) thread...
Thanks for looking



























Jun 23, 2014 at 06:36 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · battle so the 85s


@greggf:
thanks for the example--they absolutely do pop. I am very much a fan of actually using a lens, seeing examples or hearing users (especially if they can cross reference several similar lenses from their experience), rather than just reading reviews.

dropbox link:

https://www.dropbox.com/l/LDGtnjHW9ceH3xodQIKdlq?

I noticed so far:
- The Zeiss is the coolest lens by some margin.
- The 85 1.2 has the most pleasing rendering to me.
- I am surprised at how well correct and contrasty the fuji is.
- The Fuji and Zeiss have the most distinctive color palates.
- The MFD of the Fuji and the Samyang are very annoying--I always appreciate close MFD, and the Canon is especially good.
- I owned and shot a Sigma 85 1.4 and Minolta 85. I love the Minolta for it's warmth and rendering. Too bad I can't add it here.
- I missed focus on the Zeiss @ 1.4, but I did hit focus on the MFD shot.
- The Zeiss and Fuji are the sharpest and punchiest (no surprise).

Anyone please chime in. And send me more 85s for the arsenal, you know, for testing



Jun 23, 2014 at 08:01 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · battle so the 85s


After shooting the 85L, being lucky enough to be on Canon (in this rare instance), I'm fairly certain that that's the direction I'm headed, depending on what Sigma does with their upcoming 85 Art.


Jun 23, 2014 at 08:12 PM
millsart
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · battle so the 85s


I've owned the Rokinon, C/Y Zeiss and Canon 85L and I'd honestly go with the Rokinon simply because I like its very smooth, and some would say characterless or "boring" way of rendering. To me its the most pleasing

The fact you can pick one up for $300 new, or much cheaper used is icing on the cake.

Amazing bang for the buck with that lens and its just much, much better than it should be, especially wide open, for its very modest price.

The Zeiss produces some really pleasing photos though overall that I always liked, and if I'm not looking at just how a lens renders, and more with regards to actual real images, it produced lots of favorites



Jun 23, 2014 at 08:30 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · battle so the 85s


Contax N 85/1.4 is my favorite 85. Excellent combination of sharpness and smooth bokeh and zeiss colors and rendering with AF. I prefer it to my EF85/1.2L and Samyang 85/1.4. All are great lenses and choice is very subjective.




Jun 23, 2014 at 08:42 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · battle so the 85s


I like the Samyang's smoothness to be sure- but it's not nearly as sharp as the 85L wide open, and it has far worse LoCA; and I like the 85L's character, which I understand is personal.

Still, given that Samyang has committed to updating their lens range with electronics of some form or another, I'd be interested if they at least get auto-aperture and proper focus confirmation to the EF-mount 85. It'd make an excellent wide-aperture sidekick to my 85/1.8, that I can't really shoot wide-open .



Jun 23, 2014 at 08:43 PM
Alpha_Geist
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · battle so the 85s


I've owned the Zeiss 85 1.4 ZE and used it on my 7D and 5DmkIII. About the only thing I didn't like about it was the prevalent purple fringing when shot WO. Sure, it could be corrected in post, but I've shot plenty of photos where the CA was so embedded into human skin, that any attempt to remove the purple fringing resulted in monochrome skin that encapsulated the normal human skin tone.

Besides that and trying to nail focus (back/front focusing) wide open on a DSLR without a custom focusing screen, I really really liked the lens. I wish I didn't sell it as I'd imagine I'd get a big kick of using it again on my A7 (or XT-1) with focus peaking.

Like John mentioned earlier, I'm keeping my eyes on Sigma for their 85 art.



Jun 23, 2014 at 08:53 PM
lumis beans
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · battle so the 85s


nehemiahphoto wrote
Anyone please chime in. And send me more 85s for the arsenal, you know, for testing


Thanks for uploading those samples.



Jun 24, 2014 at 07:54 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · battle so the 85s


Good test, thanks for sharing! The 85 mm FL never really intrigued me neither on FF nor with a cropped sensor. The only 85 mm lens which I have is the Canon EF 85/1.8, and it is my least used lens of all. For portraits I find myself either shooting with 50 mm (body) or with 135 mm (head shots). If I could spare/sell another lens, it would be surely this one, but so far I decided to keep it due to its quality/price performance.


Jun 24, 2014 at 12:06 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · battle so the 85s


No problem--happy to finally contribute in some small way to the FM community--I have take so much info and help over the last 2 years from this site.

There are obviously other elements which this test doesn't exhibit, but I will say the Zeiss 85 1.4 does much better in scenes with both high micro and global contrast, and I also noticed the Samyang doesn't hold highlight and contrast as well. Not sure if that's optical elements used, coatings, or formula. The Canon does better with highlights as well, but it really lacks the contrast of the Zeiss.

The Fuji is way different then the other lens, but I can't tell if it's the lens or x-trans.



Jun 24, 2014 at 12:22 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · battle so the 85s


johnctharp wrote:
I like the Samyang's smoothness to be sure- but it's not nearly as sharp as the 85L wide open, and it has far worse LoCA; and I like the 85L's character, which I understand is personal.


all the direct comparisons i've seen show it to be a wash when it comes to sharpness (at large aperture) between the samyang and the 85L mkII. seems the FD 85L might actually be a bit sharper than both though. in any event the samyang is plenty sharp that i wouldn't care if my copy were a little sharper or a little softer.

with regard to comparison between the samyang and lux – the samyang definitely has smoother bokeh (and is sharper at f/1.4). there are a lot of situations where i like the character i see from the lux better than what i would get from the smoothness of the samyang though. also, the lux has noticeably less loCA. if i were shooting a weddings or event professionally, i would definitely choose the samyang just because it is more predictable.







Jun 24, 2014 at 02:36 PM
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