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Archive 2014 · Banding on sky for sunset photo

  
 
scraptag
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


I have a photo and there seems to be significant banding in the sky. I can't get rid of it no matter what I try.
Can y'all through out suggestions on how to get rid of it?
I have tried changing my color profile (although I'm not sure I actually succeeded at this.
I have tried adding noise at 1% as suggested in an online tutorial. It only started to do something when I did it a couple of times.
I have tried completely re-editing the photo in lightroom and photoshop.
I have tried to increase the exposure and then burn the dark edges back in.
just give me a list of possible solutions and I will try them all.
Thank you thank you.
I'm just at a loss, and I need to get this printed. But the banding kills it.



Jun 16, 2014 at 06:19 PM
Eyeball
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Keeping noise reduction to a minimum and even adding a little noise are the traditional solutions.

Are you sure that the banding is there in the actual file? Sometimes the banding occurs at the monitor and the actual file is fine. If you can and haven't already, I suggest doing some test prints.

I assume you are being careful to maintain a 16-bit workflow until the final image.



Jun 16, 2014 at 06:27 PM
scraptag
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


I just happen to be doing print tests for Millers and the banding is definitely in there. Just awful. I'm so sick of having to learn about post processing. I just want to shoot and do a little cleaning up in post and ta da, have something to share with family and friends. I just looked and i'm working with 16 bit.
It's not there when I'm in the sooc file, but as soon as I slide the exposure in LR it is. I just think there are so many gradients in the sky. I'll try adding more noise..



Jun 16, 2014 at 07:14 PM
Ho1972
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Can you post the raw image for download?


Jun 16, 2014 at 07:26 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Try looking at the individual channels first before adding global noise. Usually it's going to be one channel that's the worst offender and you can add noise to the channels one at a time in different amounts until the problem goes away. If your camera jpegs don't show the banding, then you may have some other processing related issues to solve first.


Jun 16, 2014 at 07:27 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Need to see a photo. There are all kinds of artifacts that might be described as "banding," and they have different causes and solutions. Most of them will not be fixed by adding noise. (That is a solution to different kinds of issues.)

If it is a sunset photo I would certainly be checking to see if the original image or the results of my post processing had blown a channel out to the highest possible luminosity level. If you did certain kinds of work on the sky in post you can also create banding-type effects that were not there originally. Black and white conversions can create other sorts of banding artifacts. In some cases the banding is a result of your image processing software's method of generating non-100% magnification screen images, and while you might see it on the screen it may not be there in a print or other presentation.

Noise is best used to mask... noise. If you have encountered a patterned noise issue or even certain kinds of non-noise issues (plasticky effect is one possibility) the addition of a small amount of noise can mask other kinds of noise or create an effect that the area is not totally flat. However, it would be pretty unusual to encounter a situation where that was the issue with a bring sunset sky.

Dan



Jun 16, 2014 at 07:39 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


scraptag wrote:
I just happen to be doing print tests for Millers and the banding is definitely in there. Just awful. I'm so sick of having to learn about post processing. I just want to shoot and do a little cleaning up in post and ta da, have something to share with family and friends. I just looked and i'm working with 16 bit.
It's not there when I'm in the sooc file, but as soon as I slide the exposure in LR it is. I just think there are so many gradients in the sky. I'll try adding more noise..


What do you mean slide the exposure? Is it underexposed or something?

EBH



Jun 16, 2014 at 07:53 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Well, most banding issues actually can be fixed by adding noise to the image, but not the tiny one percent mentioned in the original post. It often takes between three and twenty or more percent to get the job done, but often with the noise added through a luminosity or other mask and then every so slightly (.3-.7 px) radius blur to take the sharp edge off of said noise.


Jun 16, 2014 at 08:25 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


gotta post the pic, can't help otherwise



Jun 16, 2014 at 10:01 PM
Alan321
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Just to clarify; were you editing a raw file in Lr, or a jpg file ?

Do you think the photo was reasonably well exposed where the banding is appearing, or is it massively underexposed there. If massively underexposed then it could well be a dynamic range problem with the camera. Canon sensors are not all wonderful in that regard, but even the best sensors lose DR at higher ISO.

What do you call "banding". For some it is the posterisation where some subtle colour gradients get displayed or even saved as blocks of discrete colours. For others it pattern of noise in dark areas that have been brightened too much.

I see that you are not currently registered for upload and sell here at FM. Whether or not you post a photo, at least give us the relevant EXIF data such as the ISO, shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation, white balance, picture style (if not editing a raw file), and even the metering mode. And tell us whether the banding is appearing in the bright part of the sky near the sun or the darker part well away from the sun.


You might find that you are using the wrong editing method / tools in Lr too. Put another way, there might be a better way to fiddle with the brightness of different parts of an image without causing so much banding.

- Alan



Jun 17, 2014 at 03:44 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Can't offer anything else without seeing the image...

... seems like the OP has left the building.



Jun 17, 2014 at 10:22 AM
John Wheeler
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


HI scraptag

Banding can help be minimized by:
- Have a workflow that does not go into 8 bit at all including not using JPEG or dropping to 8 bit in Post Processing until the very end
- Do not have compressions (e.g. JPEG) as post processign JPEG just due to the compression can introduce atrifacts
- For printing use printers that support 16 bit (not too many) will also help avoid banding
- If you do have banding you can add noise as you are trying or also you can use the Photoshop spatter brush filter with smoothness set to 1 and start spary radius at a low level and then increase until banding is not noticeable.
- Note that sometimes a monitor and its ICC profile can introduce banding that you won't see in prints yet that does not seem the case for you

Hope you get your problem solved. Banding in slowily changing gradients such as blue sunsets is not uncommon. Hope the info is helpful.



Jun 17, 2014 at 11:38 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


As ever, the expertise, generosity, experience and patience of the FM community astounds. You guys rock and regardless of whether the OP has left the building, there are plenty of us poring over and bookmarking every nugget of knowledge and wisdom you so kindly take the time to offer.

You’re not just teaching people to fish. You’re compressing years and countless hours of hard-won experience into springboards that make so many better, faster.

Very, very cool stuff. Thank you all.

Chuck




Jun 17, 2014 at 09:27 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


what are you shooting with?


Jun 17, 2014 at 09:47 PM
mshi
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


There is nothing Photoshop can't fix. Google the Inverted High Pass technique and Frequency Separation technique.


Jun 18, 2014 at 12:41 AM
scraptag
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


I think that the noise helped, but I may have done too much. And then I also used the high pass filter. This is the original post processed image. You can see the banding at the top where they sky gets darker. I was using LR. I try not to move any sliders severely to the right or left in this image because I noticed that the banding was happening. I finally just sorta gave up in lr and moved it over to photoshop to use the noise and sharpening features. Shot in raw, canon 6d, exposed for sky. In these instances I will use my live view and histogram to get exposure. I was on a tripod w/remote. Had a bunch of boy scouts with me. I think one was shooting the same Joshua Tree, too.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/nc426H]


Edited on Jun 18, 2014 at 01:55 AM · View previous versions



Jun 18, 2014 at 01:46 AM
scraptag
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


Oh, and nolaguy is right. Your advice is much appreciated, even if I can't get to it the same day. Thank you.


Jun 18, 2014 at 01:47 AM
John Wheeler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


It would be helpful to have access to the Raw image file as the posted JPEG version has more JPEG artifacts than banding actually. Either that or you do have a monitor/monitor ICC profile issue (which could be verified by looking at your image on a friends monitor).
Just a suggestion.



Jun 18, 2014 at 08:40 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Banding on sky for sunset photo


I see it. A little tricky to be sure as to the cause. A RAW file could help more. That is banding though for sure and not something else. (although I haven't looked at it on my photo monitor yet, the one with internal LUT, and just my HDTV at the moment so the banding could be my HDTV, not sure yet).

Were you editing with software set to 16bit modes for both PS and ACR?
Maybe the colors are tricky for the canon filter and it didn't have much color discrimination in the deep shadows for those tones??




Jun 18, 2014 at 08:40 PM





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