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Impact damage?!
  
 
williamkazak
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Impact damage?!


Simple fact is; Nikon cannot be trusted.


Jun 19, 2014 at 05:34 PM
treebeard
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Impact damage?!


I guess not! I just don't see the point of trying to tell me it's user damage? Okay, I took a picture and something inside SNAPPED OFF!!! How is that user damage....sounds like mechanical falling apart damage! Ridiculous!


Jun 19, 2014 at 08:17 PM
Hardcore
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Impact damage?!


treebeard wrote:
I guess not! I just don't see the point of trying to tell me it's user damage? Okay, I took a picture and something inside SNAPPED OFF!!! How is that user damage....sounds like mechanical falling apart damage! Ridiculous!


They did the same for me.... told me a missing screw on a recently replaced mirror box was "impact damage". They took pictures and sent them. I said, "The only impact this camera has seen, is the mirror flapping up and down".

I fought it. Told them I wanted to talk to the technician who is working on the camera and I want to know exactly how it was impacted. I wanted them to type of a letter to give to me or else I would have no option to pursue other "options". That led to a phone call back a few days later saying they were going to replace the mirror under warranty.

Sorry to hear!



Jun 19, 2014 at 08:58 PM
treebeard
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Impact damage?!


I am going the same route. I demanded someone explain to me how that is considered "user damage" or even "impact damage."


Jun 19, 2014 at 09:04 PM
m.sommers00
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Impact damage?!


I think you got away nicely Hardcore, well relatively. I sent my stuff back upon receiving it, had an hour long conversation with the manager and was told they'd return all my gear and have someone else repair or pay up. I didn't have a choice.

I try not to think about it, makes me angry all over again.

Edited on Jun 20, 2014 at 06:00 PM · View previous versions



Jun 19, 2014 at 09:36 PM
treebeard
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Impact damage?!


And it gets even funnier...got a call yesterday from a woman in the service department. She is calling to tell me that the original estimate should not have changed and that the damage was due to something technical (can't explain it in detail) and that my camera was fixed and it's being sent UPS Next Day Air to me because last week I said I wanted it by 6/20. Wow....I wonder if it's going to work when I get?


Jun 20, 2014 at 12:02 PM
CanadaMark
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Impact damage?!


Glad to hear they came through for you, sounds like someone just made a mistake on their end.



Jun 20, 2014 at 02:33 PM
treebeard
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Impact damage?!


Focus seems to be spot-on with my AF-S 300 and Sigma 70-200. What's odd is the colors of the roses I was shooting seems to be really off...almost like there is an orange hue to them?


Jun 20, 2014 at 05:12 PM
Hardcore
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Impact damage?!


CanadaMark wrote:
Glad to hear they came through for you, sounds like someone just made a mistake on their end.


Actually it sounds like they tried to scam someone with impact damage claim and then realized they were not going down without a fight and revised their claim!



Jun 20, 2014 at 05:13 PM
CanadaMark
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Impact damage?!


Hardcore wrote:
Actually it sounds like they tried to scam someone with impact damage claim and then realized they were not going down without a fight and revised their claim!


I respectfully disagree. Do you honestly believe scamming is part of their actual business plan? Thousands of items pass through Nikon service every day, they don't stop at each and every one and say "how can we best screw the customer", grinding the process to a halt until the customer complains and Nikon finally relents. You read about a few questionable experiences online where nobody could possibly know the history of the equipment in question, especially not in transit via courier, where it gets zero special treatment, and no reasonable conclusion can be made from it. All it takes is a few bad stories on forums consisting of 100% hearsay and you have people saying "Nikon can't be trusted!" I'm not saying it has never happened or calling anyone a liar, but there is no possible way it happens anywhere near as frequently as people seem to think it does. Stuff like this happens every single day, there are numerous Canon impact damage stories, there are vehicle warranty claims being denied (that's actually likely to be a WAY worse example), etc. By that logic, pretty well no company on the planet can be trusted, so what does one do?








Jun 20, 2014 at 05:43 PM
 

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VinnieJ
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Impact damage?!


Yes but they don't call it scamming. They call it cutting costs.

CanadaMark wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Do you honestly believe scamming is part of their actual business plan? Thousands of items pass through Nikon service every day, they don't stop at each and every one and say "how can we best screw the customer", grinding the process to a halt until the customer complains and Nikon finally relents. You read about a few questionable experiences online where nobody could possibly know the history of the equipment in question, especially not in transit via courier, where it gets zero special treatment, and no reasonable conclusion can be made from it. All it takes is
...Show more



Jun 20, 2014 at 07:04 PM
jim allison
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Impact damage?!


Mark, I think that you sound like a very nice person who always give folks the benefit of the doubt. However, besides all the posts here and elsewhere and, the fact that Nikon lied about the D600,I would like you to be aware that the better business bureaus of both New York and Los Angeles rate Nikon service an F. Nikon is the General Motors of the camera business. They have a corrupt corporate culture and I would not give them the benefit of the
doubt or trust them in any way shape or form. Perhaps things are different in Canada, but down here they stink to high hell. They have no business ethics at all. People are angry because they love the equipment, trusted the company and got screwed!



Jun 20, 2014 at 07:33 PM
rw11
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Impact damage?!


scamming might be part of what some employee does when his bosses tell him our actual business plan is to cut costs - or else

next time ask for pics of the impact damage to the shipping container - also make all communications in writing (Email included) do not use the telephone

you can also:

1. tell them you will contact your state's Attorney general's Office
2. pay a lawyer to write them a threatening letter - maybe $100
3. buy a recording impact sensor to put in the box and tell them you did that and to save it in case they claim impact damage
4. start an "I Hate Nikon" Facebook page or something

for the record, I have had no problems with Nikon repair (other than extremely high charges for an old DSLR body - charges for a lens cleaning of fungus were not much higher than 3rd parties wanted), but I have tech. support problems all the time with them

I think the old high-quality Nikon is moribund or dead



Jun 20, 2014 at 07:37 PM
CanadaMark
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Impact damage?!


jim allison wrote:
Mark, I think that you sound like a very nice person who always give folks the benefit of the doubt. However, besides all the posts here and elsewhere and, the fact that Nikon lied about the D600,I would like you to be aware that the better business bureaus of both New York and Los Angeles rate Nikon service an F. Nikon is the General Motors of the camera business. They have a corrupt corporate culture and I would not give them the benefit of the
doubt or trust them in any way shape or form. Perhaps things are different
...Show more


Thanks Jim. I guess I'm just surprised how many people blindly hop on the "Nikon hates it's customers" bandwagon with extremely limited or zero personal experience beyond reading internet hearsay. There are many more happy Nikon customers than disgruntled ones, and Nikon has gone out of their way to help many people out as well, but people don't make threads about that. For one quick example, a friend of mine sent his 70-200 VRI in for repair, was not a NPS member, and would have not had his 70-200 for an upcoming vacation due to the repair time. Nikon sent him a loaner 70-200 VR2 as a courtesy to use during the vacation, they didn't try nail him with an impact damage bill. Another good example is the people who were/are receiving D610's for D600's that don't seem to be repairable. Rather than telling everyone to take a hike, they actually upgraded their cameras for free (minus any initial warranty hassle of course). I can all but guarantee when they receive a customers equipment for repair, the first thing they do isn't have a meeting about how to spin it into an impact damage story.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that Nikon is not the giant evil empire some people make them out to be - if they were half as bad as some people seem to believe, they would have gone out of business a long time ago. They are no better or worse than most companies, camera related or not. Some people are going to have horrible experiences with them, just like every other company, and they will put in plenty of effort to make their grievance known. That is just the reality of things when you have thousands of employees and hundreds of service centers. The rest (majority) will be satisfied and never say a word about it. So, when you read online about impact damage, you get a grossly disproportionate amount of unhappy vs happy people (goes for anything).

The D600 dust/oil issue wasn't handled as well as they could have, but it was nowhere near as bad as the Canon 1DM3 fiasco, which most people have long forgotten. Canon actually went as far as blackmailing the media to keep things quiet, but that failed, never mind all the $5000 paperweights many people are suck with. At least Nikon finally stepped up and issued a service advisory regardless of warranty status - that is one better than they needed to do. They were slow to react, but at least they reacted. It was reasonable for them to try allow warranty claims to fix the issue at first, but I do think they waited longer than they should have to do the full-on service advisory. Clearly not a shining example of flawless customer service from Nikon, however you read about all the people claiming to go to Canon because they can see an oil spot a F32, when they have FAR worse customer service examples in their history, and it makes you wonder...If people jump ship every time they read about a quality control issue, they wouldn't own a single item from anyone haha.

As for the BBB, they are arguably a complete scam themselves. They are privately owned franchises that play favorites with membership fees, and good grades can be essentially 'bought', if numerous investigations are to be believed. Their usefulness also vastly varies from franchise to franchise. I'm not saying Nikon doesn't have or doesn't deserve and F, but the BBB themselves is a joke. Many business owners actually prefer not to be part of the BBB after the results of various investigations. Some interesting material on the BBB, if you're so inclined, though the BBB is an entirely different discussion


http://bbbthetruth.com/about-2/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo8kfV9kONw

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Better-Business-Bureau-BBB-CBBB/Arlington-Select-StateProvince/Better-Business-Bureau-or-Buyer-Better-Beware-BBB-Nationwide-Alert-THE-FOX-GUARDIN-1343

http://bbbscam.net/

Lots more if you google "BBB scam" or "BBB investigation"

Anyway, my intention is not to argue or stir the pot, I just find it interesting how quickly some people (not you, just in general) jump to blanket conclusions they believe to be fact with such little information, never mind actual statistics.



Jun 20, 2014 at 08:39 PM
Mnd1
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Impact damage?!


Thanks Canada for your well reasoned post. I absolutely agree with you. The vast majority of Nikon users never have any dealings with Nikon at all. Those of us that have sent gear back for service obviously have had mixed views on the quality of service received. I posted this earlier on my dealings with Nikon service in Melville.


Over the years I have sent back several lenses and cameras to Nikon in Melville for repair. Last year I dropped my D800 down a flight of wooden stairs which did a lot of damage. It came back as good as new. The following was the work carried out.

RPL Front Body
RPL Top Cover
RPL Hot Show
RPL LCD Display
ADJ Auto Focus Operation
ADJ Exposure
CKD Communication
CKD Impact Damage
CLN CCD
General Check and Clean

Total cost $335 including tax.


I have nothing but praise for Nikon Service. I make sure I pack the equipment properly before I send it off and I always receive it back in excellent packaging.




Jun 20, 2014 at 09:50 PM
jim allison
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Impact damage?!


Hi Mark,Having worked at many camera companies over my 37 year career, including the original US importer of Nikon, I have seen many things first hand and have had to deal with customer complaints in the field. There is an amazing, and in my opinion not accidental correlation between when a company is doing poorly and when claims of impact damage increase. Of course, the majority of customers are satisfied with the service they recieve.
However, when service people are instructed to look very closely, and if they can possibly do so, claim impact damage, employees do as they are told. They can't overdoo it, or all hell will break loose in the market place and I believe that is what's happening now. They are in trouble and the pressure is on so a few more cameras that may have been repaired under warranty are marked as impact damage. Overtime it can amount to the difference between a service department that contributes nothing to the bottom line or one that can help to overcome the drain on profits from poor quality control. I can assure you of this, no corporations and very few individuals want to pay for thier own mistakes.They want to make it up, one way or another. No one takes responsibility and crap flows down hill. Nikon just got stupid about it. It is a much more sublte process then you invision, but is still a rip-off
if you are one of the unlucky ones.



Jun 21, 2014 at 01:57 AM
Hardcore
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Impact damage?!


jim allison wrote:
Hi Mark,Having worked at many camera companies over my 37 year career, including the original US importer of Nikon, I have seen many things first hand and have had to deal with customer complaints in the field. There is an amazing, and in my opinion not accidental correlation between when a company is doing poorly and when claims of impact damage increase. Of course, the majority of customers are satisfied with the service they recieve.
However, when service people are instructed to look very closely, and if they can possibly do so, claim impact damage, employees do as they are
...Show more

+1

Too many reputable members on this forum have posted saying nikon claimed their gear is "impacted" and warranty in invalid in the past year. I agree with Jim though. Poor QA and a large number of warranty claims is leading nikon to try and force their customers into paying for it.

I would just rather pay a bit more up front and not have to fight with them to fix my camera. 2 times they claimed impact damage and 1 time they fixed it without question.




Jun 21, 2014 at 02:55 AM
mmurph
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Impact damage?!


If you have trouble with this BS from Nikon, go to Twitter and complain loudly! It has worked with many other companies in the past.

Roger Cicala at Lens Rentals publishes his repair experience every 6 months. This is on Nikon from September 2012. I don't know how/if his opinion has changed. On my phone, I couldn't find more recent posts. But he does have the data to track statistics!:

"Nikon, I love the cameras. I love the prices on the cameras. But Nikon USAís repair and service sucks and is getting worse. And yes, Fanboy, I know they fixed your item for free in 5 days. We had one come back in 5 days, too (although not this year). I also know they have a great 5-year warranty. But how much does that help when you drop it?

Would I change brands or something over it? Of course not. Thatís silly. Nikon makes excellent, reliable equipment and most people need a repair maybe once every couple of years. But I certainly am advising newcomers in a different direction, and Iíd be a bit hesitant about picking up used Nikon equipment."
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/09/lensrentals-repair-data-january-july-2012

This was just before that section:

"In the last 3 months Nikon repair prices were significantly higher than the table shows.
Just for curiosity, I compared same-item repair costs for Nikon and Canon 24-70s. All Canon 24-70 repairs were either $268 or $370 (non-discounted price) during the entire 6-month period. All Nikon repairs were $539 or $602 from April 1 onwards; they were $310 before April (although there were only two during that period). I donít have room to list all the replaced items, but they were similar: barrels, collars, helicoid rings."

For Canon CPS members, Canon promises same day service and free express shipping return. Their repairs have been taking 3-4 days round trip.

This is anecdotal of course, but I have only had 2 repairs with them since 2004.

In one case they repaired a shutter under warranty, and also replaced the CF card door that I chipped when I dropped the camera.

In the second case, I sent a lens in for a free CLA under CPS. Depending on CPS level, we would get a certain number of coupons for free CLA.

They replaced a number of internal parts of an 8 year old zoom that was no longer under warranty for free. With same day turnaround.

I shoot Nikon a bit too, but haven't had any repairs.

Sorry to hear about the nightmares! Twitter.... You need to make noise!

Cheers.
M.



Jun 21, 2014 at 03:28 AM
mmurph
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Impact damage?!


As far as I can tell, this is the last set of repair statistics that Roger has published. For 1 year to July 1, 2013:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/08/lensrentals-repair-data-2012-2013

Hopefully that means we will see data for the year ending July 1, 2014 sometime soon.

Not a lot of commentary on the service experience, but the numbers are there for turnaround time. Canon is best at 5 days. Nikon is second from last, at about 24 days, but Roger notes that is a large improvement from 30+ the previous year. Olympus is worst of the brands listed.



Jun 21, 2014 at 05:48 AM
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