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Archive 2014 · The New Fuji T1P

  
 
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · The New Fuji T1P


http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/fuji-x-t1p-goes-4k-with-the-viewfinder


Jun 13, 2014 at 08:03 AM
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · The New Fuji T1P


Really? This is a crazy move, if true. Why would Fuji piss off all of their new adopters so quickly? I know you can't expect a company to stop releasing products when you buy something, but releasing a slightly improved camera merely months later is an odd move. Especially since the X-Pro1 is still chugging along.


Jun 13, 2014 at 10:13 AM
Jman13
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · The New Fuji T1P


What if they offer all current X-T1 owners a free upgrade? Hey, one can dream, right? If they only upgrade the EVF resolution, I'm fine with my purchase....the X-T1 EVF is already the best one I've ever used. Sure, I wouldn't say improving the EVF further is a bad thing, but I don't feel a compulsion to upgrade or anything.


Jun 13, 2014 at 10:55 AM
JonPB
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · The New Fuji T1P


I highly doubt it is a 4k screen. 4k is roughly 8 megapixels. The current X-T1 has 2.4 million dots, which is 0.8 megapixels. The likelihood of them increasing the data throughput to the viewfinder by a factor of ten appears to me to be vanishingly small. So let's say that they're moving up to a 4 million dot screen, or a 1.3 megapixel viewfinder.

My guess is that this is how the X-T1 was originally specified. 4 million dots is appropriate for a 16 megapixel sensor, as each viewfinder dot can be a bin of four sensor elements. That makes processing quite a bit easier--faster and/or less power intensive--than having to render the image and resize it. (Or, it allows a 1/4 resizing, which is easy, compared to a 1/6.7 resizing, which takes more computational power.) So it may not just be an increase of resolution, but also a decrease in latency and possibly a bump in refresh rate.

The alternative is that they're either--

1. Upgrading the image processing pipeline to accommodate the larger number of viewfinder pixels, which isn't a minor refresh, or
2. Increasing the load on the existing viewfinder pipeline, which will decrease performance and/or battery life.

So I figure that the X-T1 was originally designed for this viewfinder, but for some reason the part was holding up their release date, so they plopped the X-E2 viewfinder screen behind the X-T1 viewfinder optics and got it out the door. Now, they're releasing the X-T1 as it should have been all along.

...is my completely uninformed interpretation of this vague rumor. :-)

Cheers,
Jon



Jun 13, 2014 at 11:25 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · The New Fuji T1P


I bet they fixed the light leaks and inconsistency of buttons from one to another.


Jun 13, 2014 at 12:02 PM
Mike Tuomey
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · The New Fuji T1P


i'd like to have the option of an aps-c AA-less bayer sensor in an x-t1, 16-18 mpx would be ample, 24 mpx great. other than that, i'm indifferent to upgrading.


Jun 13, 2014 at 12:32 PM
Anurag
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · The New Fuji T1P


I'm angry at this since I purchased a new xt1 a little over a month ago and now it is worth $850 on the used market. Never buying fuji again. X100, xe1, xpro1 all seemed like unfinished products with the second generation fixing the issues of the previous generation but at least there was a longer time period between those iterations. Months is ridiculous.


Jun 13, 2014 at 12:41 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · The New Fuji T1P


I think the trick is to buy their second iteration that has more of the bugs ironed out.

Then again, it's not like the T-1 takes any worse pictures than it did when it was released.



Jun 13, 2014 at 12:43 PM
chris.bersbach
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · The New Fuji T1P


Anurag wrote:
...I purchased a new xt1 a little over a month ago and now it is worth $850 on the used market...



This seems awful pessimistic, but if you're offering a month-old X-T1 for $850, I'll happily take it off your hands.



Jun 13, 2014 at 01:20 PM
chez
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · The New Fuji T1P


Anurag wrote:
I'm angry at this since I purchased a new xt1 a little over a month ago and now it is worth $850 on the used market. Never buying fuji again. X100, xe1, xpro1 all seemed like unfinished products with the second generation fixing the issues of the previous generation but at least there was a longer time period between those iterations. Months is ridiculous.


I guess you should ask yourself if you bought the xt1 to take photos or to resell on the used market. If it's for taking photos, just go out and take photos with your xt1. What is the issue.

Do you also get pissed when Ford releases a new car every year, lowering the price of your slightly used car?



Jun 13, 2014 at 01:23 PM
DtEW
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · The New Fuji T1P


Dave McGaughey wrote:
Really? This is a crazy move, if true. Why would Fuji piss off all of their new adopters so quickly? I know you can't expect a company to stop releasing products when you buy something, but releasing a slightly improved camera merely months later is an odd move. Especially since the X-Pro1 is still chugging along.


I think it's because the major MILC players seem to be thinking that the key to success/survival is growing their respective mount adopters at the expense of everything else... in particularly loyalty/consideration to past/recent adopters.

One part of that approach means updating at every opportunity to keep yourself at maximum competitiveness against your competitors' offerings at all times, while keeping your products in the headlines. All the MILC makers have been doing this. The Fuji X-T1P might be an extreme manifestation of this (I mean, I haven't even seen a X-T1 in the wild yet), that as you surmise, will piss off a lot of the X-T1 early adopters... but they needed a hard spec to lord over everyone else, probably in particular the A6000. They probably figured the X-T1 early adopters can "take one for the team" for the long-term welfare of the X-mount.

Another part of this approach is breaking of price-to-feature relationships. Sony did that with the A6000, when it would've been just as lauded and well-received had it came at the same pricing as the NEX-6, and maybe even the NEX-7. But they also decided that it was more important to draw non-MILC (or other-MILC) users into the E-mount fold with killer pricing. The substantial temporal spacing didn't piss off the NEX-6/7 users (i.e. it was an appropriate time to replace the old models), but it set off something more interesting: the adamant belief that a new model, despite obvious similarities, can't possibly be the successor to the older, more expensive models (in particular the NEX-7), despite substantial improvements in almost all the key functionalities, and the complete absence of rumors to justify any belief other than that Sony simply replaced the NEX-7's price point with the A7.

Funny times these days.

Edited on Jun 13, 2014 at 04:17 PM · View previous versions



Jun 13, 2014 at 01:47 PM
alba63
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · The New Fuji T1P


chez wrote:
I guess you should ask yourself if you bought the xt1 to take photos or to resell on the used market. If it's for taking photos, just go out and take photos with your xt1. What is the issue.

Do you also get pissed when Ford releases a new car every year, lowering the price of your slightly used car?


Absolutely true. First of all I have to say X-E1 and X-Pro 1 weren't unfinished products, except some firmware features that were improved within the same hardware after a while. Other than that, I have been successfully using the X-E1 as my main camera for 1,5 years now, a nice little camera that gives excellent results.
True update after a few months is short, but should they hold it back just not to upset the buyers? While this is probably current practice in the industry, it is nevertheless bad. Resale value is not a relevant parameter for technical progress. X-T1 with 2,4M dots has still an excellent EVF, which will then only be the second best on the market. So what?

Fuji does what ever maker should do: Innovate and develop constantly and give the results to the customers as fast as possible. The only thing they should upgrade a bit faster is the sensor...



Jun 13, 2014 at 01:49 PM
samrausch
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · The New Fuji T1P


Why would they spend their energy offering an entirely new model like this where the banner feature is a higher-res viewfinder? Fix the mushy buttons!!!


Jun 13, 2014 at 02:26 PM
Alex Phan
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · The New Fuji T1P


chris.bersbach wrote:
This seems awful pessimistic, but if you're offering a month-old X-T1 for $850, I'll happily take it off your hands.


lol...i'll offer $851.



Jun 13, 2014 at 02:28 PM
Anurag
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · The New Fuji T1P


Minor update still means they will discount the body $200-$300 6 months after releasing a brand new body. It's ruins the resale value and provides no roi. My d800 was purchased 2 years ago and I can sell it for a little less than what I purchased it for. Sure it takes great pictures but for me it is a big investment. The xt1s are already being sold for $1050 and not moving. The kit has already been discounted by $300. What do you think that will do to the $1050 sticker when someone can get a new body for less than that? Used prices will drop to $850 when fuji releases the new body. A $500 loss on a $1300 portfolio in 6 months will get you fired faster than you can turn your head. I don't see the gear I have as just a tool to make photos with but also an investment. Fuji has proven to be a bad one so far.

The point is not that the xt1 will take worse pictures but that it would be devalued absurdly fast. What reason do I have to sell the xt1 at a great loss to buy their new body when 6 months later the same thing will happen. There is no incentive for people to be early adopters.

Fuji is touted as the company that listens to customers. They seem to care more about their profits from what I have seen since the x100 came out. Instead of releasing a polished product they release bodies that need to be "fixed" and get people to buy them immediately upon release and then 6 months later when the crowd sourced mistakes are found they release a new body. X100s "fixed" the af of the x100. Xt1s successor fixes the d pad...really? The d pad fix that costs $15 on ebay and a new viewfinder is worth a $500 depreciation in current value? It's a slap in the face.

As far as the upgrade goes, a company as fuji does not come up with a 4k vf in less than 6 months and then have it in a production model in that timeline. They had to have to it for longer than that. To release the xt1 and then 6 months later release an upgraded model to me seems dishonest. Perhaps it is a cultural thing. Things like this would not fly in the East.



Jun 13, 2014 at 02:48 PM
chez
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · The New Fuji T1P


Anurag wrote:
Minor update still means they will discount the body $200-$300 6 months after releasing a brand new body. It's ruins the resale value and provides no roi. My d800 was purchased 2 years ago and I can sell it for a little less than what I purchased it for. Sure it takes great pictures but for me it is a big investment. The xt1s are already being sold for $1050 and not moving. The kit has already been discounted by $300. What do you think that will do to the $1050 sticker when someone can get a new body for
...Show more

Then don't upgrade your camera...what is forcing your hand other than gear lust?

As far as ROI on camera gear...I'd fire your financial advisor if he pointed you in this direction.



Jun 13, 2014 at 03:03 PM
Anurag
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · The New Fuji T1P


Upgrades for me are guided by the fact that a piece of gear will likely reduce in value over time. You don't sit on a bad investment for the sake of sitting on it. I know that my d800 will go the way of the d700 at one point of time but not in 6 months of me buying it. Instead of taking a $1000 loss over 4 years, I'll take the $150 loss in one year along with a wider audience to sell it to. Not many people are in the market for a d700 these days even though it is a fantastic body. Has little to do with gear lust.

Roi on gear doesn't necessarily have to be positive. There are varying degrees of negativeness. Sure the gear will depreciate with time but if the slop is absurdly negative then that is the very definition of a bad investment. Depreciation curve as a very gentle negative slope on the nikon and canon bodies I have had in the past.

For me to get the same % discount on a d800, I'd have to sit for a couple of years. An almost 60% discount will be available for the xt1 in 7-8 months after release. I see that as a bit unfair to early adopters but ymmv.



Jun 13, 2014 at 03:13 PM
Mike Tuomey
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · The New Fuji T1P


Anurag wrote:
.... My d800 was purchased 2 years ago and I can sell it for a little less than what I purchased it for. Sure it takes great pictures but for me it is a big investment .... I don't see the gear I have as just a tool to make photos with but also an investment. Fuji has proven to be a bad one so far .... Perhaps it is a cultural thing. Things like this would not fly in the East.


Suggestion to minimize risk of loss of your "investment": (1) buy only fast leica glass; (2) buy the cheapest digital body on which to mount your M-glass (e.g. older gen Sony or Fuji or Sigma or what-have-you); (3) bask in your savvy investment strategy as you take pictures with your minimally depreciating gear.

Perhaps it is a cultural thing, expecting ROI from hobby gear.


Anurag wrote:
Upgrades for me are guided by the fact that a piece of gear will likely reduce in value over time .... Depreciation curve as a very gentle negative slope on the nikon and canon bodies I have had in the past.

For me to get the same % discount on a d800, I'd have to sit for a couple of years. An almost 60% discount will be available for the xt1 in 7-8 months after release. I see that as a bit unfair to early adopters but ymmv.


Assuming you like to shoot rather than analyze the slopes of depreciation curves , you carry the d800 and i'll carry my x-t1 and we'll tramp around for the day, hiking and biking and shooting. I will be smiling as my heavily depreciated camera lightly rests in my hand or on my shoulders, poorer for it all. You will be smiling as your lightly depreciated camera rests heavily in your hand and shoulders, richer for it all. I don't know who's right, but I know I feel pretty light-handed and rarin' to go out and do some club-shooting for the evening. How you feelin'?

[couldn't resist]

Edited on Jun 13, 2014 at 03:59 PM · View previous versions



Jun 13, 2014 at 03:39 PM
samrausch
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · The New Fuji T1P


Mike Tuomey wrote:
Suggestion to minimize risk of loss of your "investment": (1) buy only fast leica glass; (2) buy the cheapest digital body on which to mount your M-glass (e.g. older gen Sony or Fuji or Sigma or what-have-you); (3) bask in your savvy investment strategy as you take pictures with your minimally depreciating gear.


Agreed, the body isn't nearly as important as the lens you strap onto it. I was shooting with a Canon 20D up until about a year ago and it turned out superb pictures when I put a good lens on it. I shot my brother's wedding with a 24-70 2.8L and I was blown away. The only reason I moved up to a 7D was for the bigger screen and ability to shoot video, otherwise I'd still have that 20D.

BTW, I sold it for exactly the same price as I paid for it. Zero depreciation, and I kept all the glass to use with the 7D. Sweet.



Jun 13, 2014 at 03:52 PM
wolfloid
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · The New Fuji T1P


For me to get the same % discount on a d800, I'd have to sit for a couple of years. An almost 60% discount will be available for the xt1 in 7-8 months after release. I see that as a bit unfair to early adopters but ymmv.

You may be right with your figures, but isn't the point here that it doesn't make sense to be an early adopter. You seem not yet to have learned that. If you are really want to maximise investments then change your tactics.



Jun 13, 2014 at 04:03 PM
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