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Archive 2014 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus

  
 
codyw
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


I'm a recent 7D convert and am finding the focusing a bit slower somehow, most noticeable on my 100-400, but also apparent on my 70-200 and 24-105. I'm off to Kenya next week and am a bit nervous about blowing shots since I don't feel I "have this camera down" quite yet.

Firstly, I generally use 1 pt AF, usually in the center. One thing is fairly consistent. I lock on center (example, today at the dog park) and take two shots less than a second apart, and one is perfectly sharp, the other is a bit out.

I've tried playing with the tracking, accel/decel etc, have focus/release in the middle and really can't seem to figure it out.

I know AF stalls when the shutter is taking a shot, could that be a reason why I seem to loose focus on the 2nd shot fairly consistently? I've tried to back off the machine gun habit quite a bit, but I'm curious if the 5d3 recovers slower than the 7d from bursts.

Any other feedback would be hugely appreciated!

See attached 100% crops, 1st shot and 2nd shot.

P.S. I've also noticed the screen is soooo much better on the 5d3 that I'm judging much more critically in the field than with the 7d, an odd adjustment as well! (their flaws are more apparent on the 5d3 than on the computer!)



Jun 10, 2014 at 10:51 PM
TrojanHorse
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


I don't have a 5d3 but... check into your tracking speed (faster is not always better) and look for focus priority for the first shot and for subsequent shots. I always set mine to focus rather than speed but the default seems to be speed for canon cameras. There's got to be some documentation out there for setting up 1dx / 5d3 AF - I'd suggest finding it and absorbing it.

Oh, and try it with your IS off if you're taking action photos and make sure it's in the correct mode if you leave it on.



Jun 10, 2014 at 11:32 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


codyw wrote:
I'm a recent 7D convert and am finding the focusing a bit slower somehow, most noticeable on my 100-400, but also apparent on my 70-200 and 24-105. I'm off to Kenya next week and am a bit nervous about blowing shots since I don't feel I "have this camera down" quite yet.

Firstly, I generally use 1 pt AF, usually in the center. One thing is fairly consistent. I lock on center (example, today at the dog park) and take two shots less than a second apart, and one is perfectly sharp, the other is a bit out.

I've tried playing with
...Show more

The 5D III only does 6FPS and with a 1000x card can shoot quite long bursts with a rather quick buffer flush. AF with the 100-400 can be lacking in some difficult tracking situations, but not the type of problems you have. It is on continuous AF when the AF fails?

EBH



Jun 10, 2014 at 11:40 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Are you shooting in AI Servo mode?


Jun 11, 2014 at 12:12 AM
codyw
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Thanks all -

I've been shooting AI Servo.

I've tried tracking at -1, 1 and -2 and currently have it at 0.

IS is an interesting point - for the 100-400 it's helpful to steady my shot, what type of negative effect would it potentially have?

And does Continuous AF when AF Fails equal to Lens Drive when AF impossible? I have that on.

And 1st and 2nd image priority are set to the middle (between release and focus.)



Jun 11, 2014 at 12:33 AM
onesickpuppy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


I'll throw this out at you.....

On the first image....is that a crop of the original?? and the second a crop also??

I have the MKIV and the 5DMKIII...and when I switch over to the MKIII....I tend to get some higher ratio of OOF shots...but have found a trend to it.

Again...I go back to my question....are these crops of the original image....and if so...can we see the original?? My guess is that your focal point was on a solid color of the pet...or even missed it slightly in your panning of the dog...the focal point got off track...and your depth of field was enough to get what you got...and it got worse on the second shot (more time trying to focus on SOMETHING)...and we all know that a camera's focus system needs contrast and detail to work.

I have found the MKIII quicker to fail focus on bland colors...something without contrast, etc than the MKIV does. Also, the MKIV focus system is faster...so many times it gets back on focus quicker.

Also...you never gave us the settings on these shots....maybe if you were shooting in AV mode...the shutter got low enough that your panning technique wasn't "right on" for this shot...or that if you were in Shutter priority...that your setting wasn't fast enough to match the panning action.

Also...with the 100-400 (had one years ago..sold and got 400 5.6) focus speed may not have locked on first one...and second got worse due to first not locked in.

Just something to consider...give us more info (settings, original shot) and we might be able to better determine the issue.....



Jun 11, 2014 at 01:40 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Its interesting the OP is coming from a 7D to the 5D3 which is exactly what I have done . But I have to say Ive never come across an instance where my 7D could be considered to have had better/faster AF with the same lenses .

In fact switching back to my 7D I get hit by how much worse it seems .

But I will also say the 5D3 is alot less forgiving . I find I really have to remember to set it to hw I want to use it rather than just letting the camera sort things out (aka the 7D) for me .



Jun 11, 2014 at 03:10 AM
dhphoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Shooting things that move is not something I do much but as an owner of both the 7D and the 5D3 I can say I have by far the most success in accurate focusing using the mode with one selected point and the others around it helping.

That and setting the camera so I can move the point round the screen with the joystick at will seems to work pretty flawlessly for me (once I had micro-adjusted my lenses)



Jun 11, 2014 at 03:34 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


The 5DIII should do just as well or better than your 7D for focus tracking in AI servo, all other things being equal. It certainly should not be substantially worse. Your first image appears out of focus too, just not as bad. The eye does not appear as sharp as the tongue and some of the hairs near the collar. Were you focusing on the eye? I assume you were in AI servo.

One comment you made stands out. With AI servo you are using one point. That would mean if your one point goes off your intended target for too long, it will change focus. I know you are doing one shot right after the other. Alternately, the one focus point may not have enough contrast to make an accurate focus adjustment repeatedly. Lastly, you are not using focus priority for initial and subsequent shots. I would think for a dog moving about you should be fine with the default focus tracking settings. Just my theories. Having used the 5DIII in AI servo for over a year, but by no means a skilled expert like those on the nature forum, here are my thoughts with your focus issues.

For subjects that don't move around too much or if I am using a gimbal head, I will use center point focus with all the surrounding points assisting while in AI servo. This gives me some wiggle room for tracking, literally, as I track with a total of 9 points after acquiring focus. As mentioned, it is great to use the joy stick to move that box around for composition. For birds in flight hand held, I often use ALL focus points in AI servo. When you choose all focus points in AI servo, the initial focus point will be the center point (unless you defined it elsewhere), then it will track with all available points based on your lens. This helps my unsteady hands and potentially allows for better compositions.

You should be fine with high speed rapid fire. I recommend you try a few things.
1. Try expanding your focus points to the 8 surrounding assist points. Try with all too.
2. Change both shot priorities to focus.
3. For out of focus images (esp in AI servo), one very very very important tool is to open your canon raw file with the canon editing software (DPP). In the top toolbar you can select to view the focus point(s) that were active, if any, at the time the image was captured. This can be VERY instructive when you zoom in a little. For example, if a focus point was active on the eyeball, then you should next examine your shutter speed or micro focus adjustment settings.
4. post images with exif - your focus tracking may not always be the IQ issue.
5. Only write to a fast CF card in the 5DIII or your write times will suffer from slow writes to SD slot. It does not matter if your SD card is fast since the slot does not support UHS. Casual shooting it is not an issue, but for repeated long bursts of active subjects you will miss shot opportunities while it writes to the SD card.

Have a fun trip.

David



Jun 11, 2014 at 07:48 AM
matt4626
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


The Mark III is the best focusing camera I have every used. Very complicated to set up...a least for me. I purchased Art Morris's guild and followed his advise....all good.


Jun 11, 2014 at 08:53 AM
GammyKnee
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


I've also switched from 7D to 5DIII very recently, but already I'd say it's a significant upgrade on the 7D as far as AF goes.

Like some other posters I'd very much like to see even small uncropped versions of the OP's sample shots to provide a bit of context, preferably with exif intact.



Jun 11, 2014 at 09:39 AM
Paul Tessier
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


I think the 5DIII is one of the two most accurate focusing cameras, the other being the 1Dx. As far as focus speed it should easily be as fast or faster than the 7D and the AI servo performance is amazing. It could be settings. I would look at the focus/drive priority setting. Case settings may also help but are more for fine tuning.


Jun 11, 2014 at 10:12 AM
onesickpuppy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


I like how you used the focal points over the image...is this a screen shot out of DPPI?

Based on what I said above...it looks to me....like you were panning, and due to the angle and the color
of the area "in focus" that it would have been struggling to lock in.

The image has some DOF blur...but that is due to the angle and panning motion (right to left)

I get a lot of this type of soft images on moving items that I'm panning on, and the focal point in motion at time of release...creates some parts soft...and due to improper contrast and lack of defined edges will offer soft images. Yet the next object that comes by, if it has great detail and contrast is razor sharp.



Jun 11, 2014 at 10:30 AM
codyw
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Exactly - screenshot from DPPI. Thanks for the tip "dgdg" to see focus points in there!

The funny thing is on the second shot even the area it says it's focusing on appears out of focus!



Jun 11, 2014 at 10:44 AM
Paul Tessier
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Also try using the 61 point automatic selection af mode when in Ai servo. This camera should lock on and track a dog like that with no problem.


Jun 11, 2014 at 10:47 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


The first one produced focus as I would expect based on DPP.

The second one, hmmm, see what focus priority for 1st and subsequent shots does for you. the dog collar acts as a plumb bob and appears much sharper along with the right rear leg. Wonder if the dog's head moved quickly towards you, or if you just need to set things all the way to focus priory. You are shooting at two angles as well - left/right, up/down so your focus plane will be diagonal in both directions with the dog. That will stress your depth of field some it you are off a bit.

Your iso was pretty low. If I am pressed with aperture or shutter speed, I'll easily go up to 800 iso to increase depth of field or improve motion/shake artifacts. So for the trotting pooch, you could increase your fstop to something just shy of f/8. If you have the light, sure, go low with iso.

Definitely use the dot-tune method to micro focus adjust your lens combinations if your review of focus points in DPP looks ok. If you are back focusing severely, then you will appear to have poor keeper rates.

I often use manual exposure with auto iso. For birds flying across various backgrounds (woods to sky), I have to go manual all the way. Aperture priority is probably fine in strong light as you'll never drop the shutter speed, but I find shutter priority and manual exposure my most common modes.

For slow stuff you should have lots of keepers. For quick things hand held, well its a combination of luck and skill.

David



Jun 11, 2014 at 10:56 AM
dresearch
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Though you probably aren't using it, stay away from "Single-Point SPOT A/F" (emphasizing the SPOT). I used this setting thinking that the A/F system would lock on to my subjects more precisely, but this is not the case in most scenarios (even where subjects are not moving) as the Spot A/F is VERY precise. Sometimes it'll give a false lock if the center of the spot focus is darker or lacks detail. Regular "Single-Point Focus" that is most common in all other bodies provide a large range for the body to focus on and I feel it gives better focusing capabilities that the Spot setting.

Another FYI, Camera RAW and DPP doesn't have a Spot-Focus square graphic when previewing pictures, so it appears as if you shot the photo with regular Single-Focus square no matter what mode you've shot with.



Jun 12, 2014 at 12:58 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


dresearch wrote:
Though you probably aren't using it, stay away from "Single-Point SPOT A/F" (emphasizing the SPOT). I used this setting thinking that the A/F system would lock on to my subjects more precisely, but this is not the case in most scenarios (even where subjects are not moving) as the Spot A/F is VERY precise. Sometimes it'll give a false lock if the center of the spot focus is darker or lacks detail. Regular "Single-Point Focus" that is most common in all other bodies provide a large range for the body to focus on and I feel it gives better focusing
...Show more

thats because 'Spot' AF is not meant to be used like that . Its not anymore accurate than the normal AF point . the smaller AF point will allow you to avoid anything in the foreground like grass or shooting thru a fence .
also the smaller size of the spot af can make a lock harder to achieve if the target has little contrast because if there is little detail then in a very small area there is less likley to be anything the af sensor can detect whereas the larger 'normal' may get luckier with something that crosses its sensor path .



Jun 12, 2014 at 01:35 AM
Kathy White
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Its interesting the OP is coming from a 7D to the 5D3 which is exactly what I have done . But I have to say Ive never come across an instance where my 7D could be considered to have had better/faster AF with the same lenses .

In fact switching back to my 7D I get hit by how much worse it seems .

But I will also say the 5D3 is alot less forgiving . I find I really have to remember to set it to hw I want to use it rather than just letting the camera sort things
...Show more


+1 I get alot more in focus with the 5DIII than I do with the 7D.



Jun 12, 2014 at 01:56 AM
mmurph
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon 5dmk3 Focus


Have you seen the 50+ page manual on the auto focus sytem in the 1DX and 5DIII?

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/1dx_guidebook.shtml

There are a lot of options. It is a very sophisticated, tunable system. It is also quite a learning curve to master it ....

There are also a number of sports shooters who have in-depth knowledge of the auto focus system, built up from shooting different types of sports for months & months. Cycling is different than volleyball, etc.

Good luck!
Michael



Jun 12, 2014 at 01:53 PM
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