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The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R
  
 
blutch
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


Snapsy, you said the same thing about the D3s and the D800 up to 6400 and I shoot with both and in real life, it just isn't the case. Are you saying that the noise in those pictures of the daughters at 200 and 400 iso is similar to what you would get in the same scenario with a D800? Look at all the color noise... I don't get it.... I never see that much noise on my Nikons under 1000 ISO. This noise greatly affects the IQ in my experience.. what am I missing? Not trying to be confrontational at all... just trying to learn. b


Jun 17, 2014 at 04:24 AM
snapsy
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


blutch wrote:
Snapsy, you said the same thing about the D3s and the D800 up to 6400 and I shoot with both and in real life, it just isn't the case. Are you saying that the noise in those pictures of the daughters at 200 and 400 iso is similar to what you would get in the same scenario with a D800? Look at all the color noise... I don't get it.... I never see that much noise on my Nikons under 1000 ISO. This noise greatly affects the IQ in my experience.. what am I missing? Not trying to be confrontational
...Show more

Well in this case the D800 and A7r share identical sensors.

As for my D3s and D800 comments, I never know how to respond to "real life" or "real world" comments. In the comparison I did here, I set up a high DR scene (from deep blacks to highlights), using the same lens with a manual aperture control (since body-to-body aperture lever variance on Nikon bodies can exceed 1/3 stop), under low-light tungstent - in that comparison I'm not able to distinguish the D3s and D800 ISO 6400 images at any point in the tonal range. In the real world, people judge noise by lots of subjective criteria, such as 1:1 comparisons between vastly different pixel densities, lenses with different T-stop rating or aperture variances, varying levels of absolute exposure, etc... I guess if you gave me a choice between the "real world" and my imaginary world I guess I would have to prefer my imaginary world when it comes to objective comparisons



Jun 17, 2014 at 04:32 AM
blutch
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


Hehehehe. Yeah. I understand. Bottom line for me, is the keeper rate on a theatrical production shoot is significantly lower on the D800 than it is on the D3s. I've also read that the D800 has more amp glow in the darks in high iso scenarios. This is my experience in the field too. Perhaps there is som flaw in my technique that is coming through on the D800 but forgiven on the D3s. I would believe it, but I'd like to know so I can fix it.

Back to the sample photos in this thread. Is that noise at 200 and 400 iso acceptable to you? B



Jun 17, 2014 at 04:40 AM
snapsy
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


blutch wrote:
Hehehehe. Yeah. I understand. Bottom line for me, is the keeper rate on a theatrical production shoot is significantly lower on the D800 than it is on the D3s. I've also read that the D800 has more amp glow in the darks in high iso scenarios. This is my experience in the field too. Perhaps there is som flaw in my technique that is coming through on the D800 but forgiven on the D3s. I would believe it, but I'd like to know so I can fix it.

Back to the sample photos in this thread. Is that noise at
...Show more

For sure the D800 suffers from amp glow but it usually isn't problematic until just after ISO 6400, at least for most exposures. The sample photos look ok to me. I can show you an ISO 1600 image with less noise than an ISO 400 simply by adjusting the exposure. ISO is really just a proxy for absolute exposure - it's the absolute exposure (ie, light level and shutter speed/aperture) which principally determine the amount of noise in an image. And many images span the exposure scale so that what is 18% gray ISO 400 for one part of the image is effectively ISO 3200 or worse in the darker tones.



Jun 17, 2014 at 04:47 AM
snapsy
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


Btw, the first A7s raws came out and they look very impressive. To my eyes they appear about 1EV better than the D3s/D4/Df, esp in the shadows (A7s's ISO 25,600 looks like a D3s's ISO 12,800)...but can't say for sure until the same scene can be compared side by side. Here are some samples:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53855688



Jun 17, 2014 at 04:51 AM
blutch
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


snapsy wrote:
ISO is really just a proxy for absolute exposure - it's the absolute exposure (ie, light level and shutter speed/aperture) which principally determine the amount of noise in an image. And many images span the exposure scale so that what is 18% gray ISO 400 for one part of the image is effectively ISO 3200 or worse in the darker tones.


First time I've ever heard it put this way.... trying to digest it... maybe that's my prob with the D800.. not nailing exposure close enough....



Jun 17, 2014 at 04:54 AM
Frogfish
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


blutch wrote:
Frogfish, is it me, or is there excessive noise at low ISO's in those pics of your daughters? That IQ doesn't seem to me to be anywhere close to the D800. What am I missing?

B


I have TWO daughters ? News to me ! Whatever you do don't tell the wife



Jun 17, 2014 at 08:32 AM
 

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blutch
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


Sorry.. I thought it was two different girls.



Jun 19, 2014 at 02:20 AM
joanlvh
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


the a7/R is a great travel camera, put a ZM or Voigtlander on it and it is so small! If you are of the mind for AF, I agree the Zeiss Sony 55mm 1.8 is pretty great. glad you like your 7r so far with Nikon. joanlvh


Jun 19, 2014 at 04:20 AM
Frogfish
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


blutch wrote:
Sorry.. I thought it was two different girls.


You mixed me up Blutch - they weren't my shots, hence my surprise at learning I've been more productive than I thought



Jun 19, 2014 at 04:25 AM
wiseguy010
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


blutch wrote:
Snapsy, you said the same thing about the D3s and the D800 up to 6400 and I shoot with both and in real life, it just isn't the case. Are you saying that the noise in those pictures of the daughters at 200 and 400 iso is similar to what you would get in the same scenario with a D800? Look at all the color noise... I don't get it.... I never see that much noise on my Nikons under 1000 ISO. This noise greatly affects the IQ in my experience.. what am I missing? Not trying to be confrontational
...Show more

I agree. My D800 never shows this much noise. Were the pictures perhaps underexposed and corrected in postprocessing? That might explain it to some extent, If not then this level of noise would be unacceptable for me.



Jun 19, 2014 at 08:19 AM
jhinkey
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


wiseguy010 wrote:
I agree. My D800 never shows this much noise. Were the pictures perhaps underexposed and corrected in postprocessing? That might explain it to some extent, If not then this level of noise would be unacceptable for me.

If you are talking about the images of my girls then the noise is due to the shadows being raised in post.



Jun 22, 2014 at 08:47 PM
jhinkey
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · The Nikon FM3D We've Always Wanted? Sony A7R


Got the A7r out this morning for the 4 mile 4K ft hike up Mt. Si here in Seattle. Turned out to not be a great day for photography as there was a lot of haze in the air - thus Mt. Rainier was pretty low contrast as was the city and the Olympics.

First one from the 16/3.5 AI at f/8.

If I had done this shot with the A7 I would have gotten some funny ghosts right near the sun star.




  ILCE-7R    ---- lens    1/400s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Jun 22, 2014 at 08:49 PM
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