Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2014 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?

  
 
Daniel Smith
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


Am not familiar with what Sony has but Fuji has a very good 14mm and 35mm lens. The Zeiss lenses on sale are both very close in focal length. The 12mm might make sense as in ultra wides a few millimetres makes a difference. Don't think the 32mm makes much sense at all.

Both not on sale for less than the cost of the 12mm alone a week ago.

Who wins?



Jun 06, 2014 at 01:13 PM
freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


People who prefer the Zeiss draw over Fuji's?


Jun 06, 2014 at 01:20 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


I like Zeiss and Fuji. I'm sticking with Fuji for my X-E2 and have some Zeiss for my DSLR.


Jun 06, 2014 at 02:23 PM
thedruid
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


People like me who just picked up a mint used XE-1 with no investment in Fuji lenses


Jun 06, 2014 at 03:11 PM
freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


jcolwell wrote:
I like Zeiss and Fuji. I'm sticking with Fuji for my X-E2 and have some Zeiss for my DSLR.


Yes, but do you feel like you've won?



Jun 06, 2014 at 04:03 PM
Alex Phan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


both parties win. The consumer get a good deal and Zeiss is able to move their inventory. Their price is way over price (in my opinion) in the first place.


Jun 06, 2014 at 04:07 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


freaklikeme wrote:
Yes, but do you feel like you've won?


I didn't know I was in a race.

I'm happy. That's often better than winning.



Jun 06, 2014 at 05:00 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


People like you ruin capitalism.


Jun 06, 2014 at 05:12 PM
JonPB
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


To me, as a casual observer:

Touit 12 & 32 introduced in May, 2013, to conveniently cover needed focal lengths for strong primes around the Sony/Zeiss 24/1.8. Also offered for Fuji because, hey, why not? Zeiss aims to win the hearts and wallets of the premium-prime, APS-C, enthusiast market.

Sony a7 and a7R introduced in October, 2013. Zeiss looks at the Touit line and says, "oh crap." [Edit: "I've made a huge mistake."]

Zeiss puts its 12 & 32 lenses on firesale in June, 2014, through August, 2014, because their financial year ends in September and for this entire year (notice how the a7 came out in October?) the enthusiasts have either been buying into Sony's full-frame bandwagon or into Fuji's retro-chic bandwagon, neither of which the Touits fit into. This inventory stock needs to be sold or stockholders will express their displeasure.

Who wins? Well, most prominently, resellers like Adorama and BHPhoto, who likely looked at Zeiss' new (43mm image circle) mirrorless offerings and said, "yeah, the last time you tried that we bought a bunch of inventory and it is still in our warehouses. What makes you think that we'll invest in your new and unproven product?" Also any Fuji X or Sony E shooters who want native, premium, fixed focus, Zeiss-quality lenses...who haven't already bought the two Touit lenses.

Personally, if I had the free cash, I'd buy several sets with an eye toward selling them in the future. This is probably going to be a low water mark in terms of price for such high quality glass and I don't think mirrorless, APS-C cameras are going to disappear anytime soon. I'd bet that these will resell for $50 to $100 profit per, but I can't afford to make that bet because I could be horribly wrong.

As far as we're concerned: anyone who wanted the Touit lenses but couldn't afford them at ~$1000 each, but can afford them at ~$500 each, is probably pretty happy.

Cheers,
Jon



Jun 06, 2014 at 05:21 PM
naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


I would not be at all surprised it Zeiss is selling the Tuit lenses at a substantial discount at present to help generate money for the soon to be released first round of manual focus lenses for the FF Sony E mount (presumably for at least display at Photokina and PhotoPlus in September and October respectively).

Rich



Jun 06, 2014 at 06:06 PM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


Hell, if I had the cash, it'd be enough for me to buy into either Fuji or Sony crop- and most likely a cheap/used Fuji with an eye toward a 24MP Exmor-based X-Trans in a hypothetical XT-2 or XE-3, just because I have bayer and normal rendering (not 'colorful') covered with my Canon kit.


Jun 06, 2014 at 06:08 PM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


naturephoto1 wrote:
I would not be at all surprised it Zeiss is selling the Tuit lenses at a substantial discount at present to help generate money for the soon to be released first round of manual focus lenses for the FF Sony E mount (presumably for at least display at Photokina and PhotoPlus in September and October respectively).

Rich


I'm actually hoping that Zeiss will do something that no one expects- make full-frame 'Touits' for the FE mount. They have the optics already in their ZM-series, and they appear quite happy to make AF lenses as long as they're for always-accurate (or complete miss) CDAF-based systems.

They can call them whatever they like, but they'd certainly have an open and willing market (and could charge whatever they'd like) if they could bring their signature rendering in lenses with acuity actually befitting Sony's high-resolution sensors, which Sony appears incapable of doing on their own.



Jun 06, 2014 at 06:11 PM
naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


johnctharp wrote:
I'm actually hoping that Zeiss will do something that no one expects- make full-frame 'Touits' for the FE mount. They have the optics already in their ZM-series, and they appear quite happy to make AF lenses as long as they're for always-accurate (or complete miss) CDAF-based systems.

They can call them whatever they like, but they'd certainly have an open and willing market (and could charge whatever they'd like) if they could bring their signature rendering in lenses with acuity actually befitting Sony's high-resolution sensors, which Sony appears incapable of doing on their own.


Zeiss promised and committed to releasing a series of MF Sony E mount FF lenses for the A7/A7r cameras last year at and just before PhotoPlus in October of last year. I was able to receive full confirmation of this from Zeiss directly at PhotoPlus last October. At this point, we still do not know the designs and the focal lengths expected to start. But, they expected that the first lenses would at least be on display at the 2014 Photokina which is in September (only 3 months from now).

Rich



Jun 06, 2014 at 06:18 PM
ibcj
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


thedruid wrote:
People like me who just picked up a mint used XE-1 with no investment in Fuji lenses


That's me as well.



Jun 06, 2014 at 07:32 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


The problem with the Touits was twofold:

Fuji shooters could buy better for less. Rendering aside the XF 14/2.8 R and XF 35/1.4 R are simply better performing lenses (and the 35 is faster and closer in Field of View to a traditional normal) and when the Touit's aren't on fire sale the Fuji's are notably cheaper. In fact the current fire sale cost isn't much cheaper than what the 14+35 were selling for during the last Fuji sale.

And in Sony land, there's no high-end APS-C body left to match with the Touit's. The NEX-7 is ageing and its AF performance leaves much to be desired, the A6000 is massively downmarket and the Touit's don't cover the A7's sensor. Zeiss needs there to be a true NEX-7 replacement for the Touit line to make sense (I considered going NEX+Zeiss earlier this year, but the value proposition wasn't there, I wanted the 12+24+55 kit, but that was over $3k and there was no body to truly match it. Fuji's got the bodies to match their more expensive APS-C lenses)



Jun 06, 2014 at 09:55 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


naturephoto1 wrote:
Zeiss promised and committed to releasing a series of MF Sony E mount FF lenses for the A7/A7r cameras last year at and just before PhotoPlus in October of last year. I was able to receive full confirmation of this from Zeiss directly at PhotoPlus last October. At this point, we still do not know the designs and the focal lengths expected to start. But, they expected that the first lenses would at least be on display at the 2014 Photokina which is in September (only 3 months from now).

Rich


But from what I have read they have said they will be manual focus and not AF. I hope that is true. I am very interested in Zeiss MF lenses for E mount, but I am not at all interested in AF lenses. I suspect I may be in the minority on that one though. Still it may be easier for Zeiss to produce MF lenses so as not to compute with themselves and the Sony/Zeiss lenses.

Once again John, I will say that it is hogwash that Sony has been incapable of delivering lenses with enough acuity to take advantage of their sensors. Not all their lenses have been up to what I would like to see (notably the 24-70 f/4), but the 55 f/1.8 demonstrates that they are at least capable of bringing some good FF E mount lenses to the table. Let's hope they can deliver more for those who want them. Personally, I won't be getting any AF lenses (as I much prefer MF), but I hope those who want them get them. I also hope that Zeiss follows through and delivers some very nice MF FF E mount lenses.



Jun 06, 2014 at 10:32 PM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


I'm not saying that Sony is incapable- I'm saying that they're incapable of choosing to do so. Sony's best is as good or better than anyone else's best except possibly Leica, IF you can get them to give you their best, or frankly, to even try at all.

As for this AF vs. MF thing- I can understand with SLRs that have less than perfect PDAF setups on average, but seriously, using CDAF or hybrid on-sensor AF where you have far more control over just what the camera is focusing on is the bee's knees, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about gorgeous Zeiss glass. If you want to MF, just grab the ring. It's not like Zeiss's MF rings on their AF glass are terribly lacking.



Jun 06, 2014 at 11:00 PM
Alex Phan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


if you can get the zeiss 12mm X-Mount for $600 (current crazy Zeiss promotion) why not? i would pick it over Fuji 14mm any day. (as a matter of fact, i just did that today. )


Jun 07, 2014 at 12:32 AM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


johnctharp wrote:
I'm not saying that Sony is incapable- I'm saying that they're incapable of choosing to do so. Sony's best is as good or better than anyone else's best except possibly Leica, IF you can get them to give you their best, or frankly, to even try at all.

As for this AF vs. MF thing- I can understand with SLRs that have less than perfect PDAF setups on average, but seriously, using CDAF or hybrid on-sensor AF where you have far more control over just what the camera is focusing on is the bee's knees, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about gorgeous
...Show more

Regarding the refrain that Sony is incapable of making or choosing to make lenses that take advantage of their sensor's capabilities, again I say hogwash. They chose to make the Sony/Zeiss 55 and it is capable of taking advantage of their sensor's capabilities. They have chosen to make a lot of stellar A mount glass that is capable of taking advantage of their sensor's capabilities and they have chosen to make adapters that let people use that glass on E mount cameras. Your statement is just inaccurate and yet you make it repeatedly even when it is pointed out that it is inaccurate. Why?

I too find some of their glass disappointing, but that is true of any manufacturer, and they have made some good lenses. Where do they rank in hits and misses and making good glass? I would put them in the middle--better than some and worse than others. But saying they are incapable of making or choosing to make lenses that take advantage of their sensors just isn't true.

Regarding AF maybe to you the focus rings on AF mirrorless glass aren't lacking, but I really dislike them. Focus by wire and manual focus in my experience don't go together--I do find such MF rings even on Zeiss glass as lacking, but to each their own. I like to manual focus and I like the feel of a lens designed for MF. That probably makes me unusual, but it is my clear preference. Yes CDAF can be quite accurate, but for the types of things I shoot I find MF just as accurate with a good lens designed for MF. So I don't feel like I am missing out, but YMMV.



Jun 07, 2014 at 01:48 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Does the Zeiss lens sale make sense?


Bubble wrote:
if you can get the zeiss 12mm X-Mount for $600 (current crazy Zeiss promotion) why not? i would pick it over Fuji 14mm any day. (as a matter of fact, i just did that today. )


Why? The only reason I can think of is just really wanting 12mm. In terms of performance there's no comparison, the Fuji is simply a better lens. The Touit is a solid performer but the Fuji 14 is on its way to being a well deserved legend. And the physical design of the Fuji's is much better (whoever designed the barrel for the Touit's should be punished, $1000 lenses should not feel cheap and the focus & aperture rings and their smooth rubber grip are grossly inferior to the knurled design on the Fuji's, also the 12mm's weird skinny with a wide end design is annoying to handle or put in a bag).

The Touit's don't seem to have a heavy dose of the Zeiss signature either. So rendering is much closer to a wash than is normal when considering Zeiss vs anything.



Jun 07, 2014 at 08:16 AM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.