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Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location
  
 
cambyses
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


The title says it all. Would appreciate any suggestions and recommendations.

The heaviest load (not including the weight of the boom) should be 15 lbs or less (e.g., B1 with a 5' octabox). The stand will be used mostly on location and when there is no assistant. Already have one Avenger A2030D C-stand with grip arm. But looking for a rolling stand for the second one.

So far, my search has led me to either of the following two combinations:

1) Avenger A5029 with D600 mini boom, or
2) Matthews Baby Jr. Triple Riser with Avenger D600 miniboom

Either combination should be very stable and would cost me around $375.

Now, is there any lighter and less expensive alternative anyone could point to me?

Thanks...



May 31, 2014 at 10:58 PM
JakeB17
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


cambyses wrote:
1) Avenger A5029 with D600 mini boom, or
2) Matthews Baby Jr. Triple Riser with Avenger D600 miniboom

Either combination should be very stable and would cost me around $375.




The first stand will not be stable with a boom attached. You want something with a much wider footprint and heavier base.

I feel like a bit of a broken record about this, but forget about avenger and Matthews stands. Get American grip. So much more reliable and better built. There is a reason every grip rental house in LA uses them.

http://www.filmandvideolighting.com/amheducost3r.html

As for the arm, I would say go with the D650 because the D600 will be maxed out at 15lb at full extension.

Or, if you really want to be able to boom more weight get a proper menace arm kit and some speedrail. A little more complex, but it will be a lot more stable and safe. http://www.cinegearstore.com/products/1-1%7B47%7D4%22-Menace-Arm-Kit-%28Pipe-Boom-Kit%29.html

I'm not sure what would be lighter and offer any degree of stability or safety under that amount of weight. No point going cheap and wrecking a profoto head or an model's head, ha.



Jun 01, 2014 at 01:08 AM
cambyses
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


Thanks a lot for your input.

Between the two stands I had mentioned, I was already leaning to Matthews. The two have almost the same price but Matthews is all-steel (unlike Avenger 5029 which has steel base and column but Aluminum risers), has a bit higher load rating (30 lbs vs 26.5 lbs), has a bigger max height (3.7m vs 2.9m), a bit larger footprint (1.2m vs 1.0m), and yet weighs the same (14 lbs).

I see two issues with the American Grip you mentioned: a) It is not a roller, and I really like to get a rolling stand this time. I suppose I should be able to buy casters for it, but then it would further increase the cost for me. and b) It seems a bit too heavy (30 lbs) for something that is intended mostly for location work. And if I go with D650 instead of D600, it will further add to the weight. Now, I do understand that heavier would be better in terms of stability. But, if possible, I wouldn't mind a bit of compromise towards portability without adding significant risk to stability. For example, I can try to avoid using the boom at its maximum extension.






Jun 01, 2014 at 02:12 AM
rico
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


15 lbs is a heavy load: puts the D600 at its load limit, and the baby pin is no confidence booster. Although it taxes your location mobility, I really think you need to up-rate your configuration. I have and recommend the Avenger D650 plus Matthews Low Boy Double Riser roller. This rig will take a more realistic 22-lb load at full extension, and is based on a Junior mount. My heaviest fixture is 25 lb and the setup is perfectly secure. The Low Boy is very stable and smooth in motion, and any altitude you need can be provided by the boom. Versus the D600, the D650 weighs much more because it includes a 15-lb counterweight.

Alternatively, you can fall back to a pack-n-head to bring down the flying weight.

P.S.: Always use a security cable!!

Ref:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33088-REG/Matthews_H386021_Low_Boy_Junior_Steel.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/153409-REG/Avenger_D650_D650_Junior_Boom_Arm.html



Jun 01, 2014 at 06:41 AM
cambyses
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


You guys are not helping I was hoping for something lighter and less expensive, and you are all moving me more towards heavier and more expensive stands! Of course, I can see why....

It is true that I will be getting a rolling stand but I will also have to consider certain situations where I just may not be able to roll (eg beach) and will have to carry the stand at least for short distances. That is why I like to keep th weight down to the degree I can without sacrificing stability.

As for my max load, B1 is 6.6 lbs. 5' Octabox is also around 6.5 lbs. So with speeding and possibly a grid, I will likely be around 14 lbs. that is why I mentioned 15 lbs as my max load. My other modifiers (beauty dish, smaller soft boxes and umbrellas) will all be lighter than 5' octa.

Have you guys used your setup on location? How manageable is it?

Thanks



Jun 01, 2014 at 03:41 PM
cambyses
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


You guys are not helping I was hoping for something lighter and less expensive, and you are all moving me more towards heavier and more expensive stands! Of course, I can see why....

It is true that I will be getting a rolling stand but I will also have to consider certain situations where I just may not be able to roll (eg beach) and will have to carry the stand at least for short distances. That is why I like to keep th weight down to the degree I can without sacrificing stability.

As for my max load, B1 is 6.6 lbs. 5' Octabox is also around 6.5 lbs. So with speeding and possibly a grid, I will likely be around 14 lbs. that is why I mentioned 15 lbs as my max load. My other modifiers (beauty dish, smaller soft boxes and umbrellas) will all be lighter than 5' octa.

Have you guys used your setup on location? How manageable is it?

Thanks



Jun 01, 2014 at 03:41 PM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


I have to be honest with you, I went through the same dance years ago. There is nothing light that has a boom with a big enough (worth while) extension that'll be safe/durable. People can recommend all sorts of lighter/cheaper booms, but they're not worth the accident waiting to happen. I second Rico for minimum setup.

My suggestion, shoot male models and have them carry your stuff.

Honestly though, buy yourself a super clamp, and get yourself two heavy weight stacker stands + a backdrop pole. setup the backdrop rig, put the super clamp on.. It'll be lighter then a C-stand and will work like a boom (somewhat for most situations) and will hold the weight w/no counter weight needed (sandbags needed though).



Jun 01, 2014 at 04:31 PM
rico
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


cambyses wrote:
It is true that I will be getting a rolling stand but I will also have to consider certain situations where I just may not be able to roll (eg beach) and will have to carry the stand at least for short distances.


The beach is no place for a boomed 5' octa on rollers! You should rethink your location scenarios, and be ready to assemble two or three shooting configs. My boom and all accessories needs a van. A roller stand with casters should be carried or hand-trucked to its shooting position. The stands you can push down the street live in a different rent district.

The beach shooters seem to prefer hand-held scrims and reflectors; the strobes have metal reflectors to maximize the light, and avoid wind problems. I could imagine a small steel stand, spikes, and tethering. The boom is right out. To stay mobile and cheap, you need to lower your sights.



Jun 02, 2014 at 04:59 AM
cambyses
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


What do you guys think about this Manfrotto boom stand:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/512958-REG/Manfrotto_085BS_Heavy_Duty_Boom_and.html

It comes with wheels and the counterweight for boom. The stand itself can support up to 66 lbs and the boom can support up to 15 lbs. And the footprint is fairly wide at 118cm. So overall, it seems to meet the spec I am looking for.

But it is aluminum, and not steel, and I think it won't be as stable as Matthews Low Boy Jr Double Riser with D600 (and certainly not with D650). But it seems to be a bit lighter and less expensive.

Would that be a good compromise? Any input on Manfrotto boom stands compared with Avenger and/or Matthews? (I know Manfrotto and Avenger are the same company but obviously the product lines are different).

Thanks...




Jun 02, 2014 at 11:25 PM
cambyses
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


Another possible option I am looking at is the 4050CS combo stand by Avenger:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/204456-REG/Avenger_A4050CS_A4050CS_Junior_Boom_Stand.html

I would have to pay extra for casters for this one though.



Jun 02, 2014 at 11:37 PM
 

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rico
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


The Manfrotto is pushing the limit: besides your points of concern, it employs a baby pin. I own the "pivoting boom clamp" component, and it's not that substantial. The Avenger is well-regarded in the forum, and can fully serve your purpose. Seems to get high marks on B&H, too. Addition of casters and counterweight will add more to the cost and carrying burden. Advantages of keeping boom and stand separate: two lower-weight components to schlepp, mixing with other boom/stand combos as appropriate, stand component has lower profile when used alone.


Jun 03, 2014 at 03:03 PM
DanRiv25
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


I was using the Avenger A4041B with my B1.
Minimum Height 4.56' (1.4 m)
Maximum Height 13.5' (4.1 m)
Closed Length 4.0' (1.24 m)
Footprint Diameter 4.25' (1.29 m)
Risers 3 Risers, 4 sections
Leg Tube Diameters 35 / 30 / 25 / 20 mm
Leg Shape Square, 20 x 20 mm
Accepts Wheels Yes
Attachment Size 5/8" (16 mm) male stud
Boom Length 3.7 - 7.0' (1.13 - 2.13 m)
Maximum Load Boom at minimum extension: 33 lb (15 kg)
Stand at max extension: 22.05 lb (10 kg)
Weight 10.1 lb (4.6 kg)



Jun 03, 2014 at 10:06 PM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


If you are going to to put 15lb on one end of the boom, will you have a counterweight? If you are using it outside will you use sandbags (human or otherwise?) You don;t want that thing falling over.

On my old Bogen Super boom (same as the Manfrotto) there is a 10-ish pound counterweight. But the biggest thing I'd put out there was a norman or hensel head and 4x6 chimera. Not all that heavy.



Jun 04, 2014 at 04:55 PM
cambyses
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


Micky Bill wrote:
If you are going to to put 15lb on one end of the boom, will you have a counterweight? If you are using it outside will you use sandbags (human or otherwise?) You don;t want that thing falling over.

On my old Bogen Super boom (same as the Manfrotto) there is a 10-ish pound counterweight. But the biggest thing I'd put out there was a norman or hensel head and 4x6 chimera. Not all that heavy.


Yes, absolutely. I will have to use both counterweight and sand bags. No questions on that.

That being said, I still cannot make up my mind as to which stand I should go with. Given the options as well as my intended usage and my concerns, this decision turns out to be tougher than I had expected!

Anyhow, thanks for everyone's inputs on this thread and elsewhere, here is a summary of the options I am considering and the concerns I have with each option:

=================
1) Matthews Baby Jr Triple Riser with Avenger D600:
- Cost: ~$375 ($254 for stand + $121 for boom)
- Weight: 22 lbs (14 for stand + 8 for boom; obviously not including the light fixture, counterweight and sandbags)
Closed Length: 120cm (stand), 117cm (boom)
- Concerns:
a) The max weight of my light fixture (~14 lbs) plus D600 (~8 lbs) plus counterweight (say, ~15 lbs) would add up to 37 lbs which would be higher than the max load rating on the stand (30 lbs)!
b) The max load rating on D600 is only 15 lbs at max extension. How conservative is this rating? And does that include the counterweight too? Because if it does, I may be out of luck with D600.

================
2) Matthews Low Boy Double Riser with Avenger D600:
- Cost: ~$380 ($254 for stand + $121 for boom)
- Weight: 32.5 lbs (24.5 for stand + 8 for boom; obviously not including the light fixture, counterweight and sandbags)
Closed Length: 106.6cm (stand), 117cm (boom)
- Concerns:
a) Total carrying weight.
b) Same as (b) for #1, i.e., the load rating on D600.
c) The max height on Low Boy is only 190cm. I obviously can get higher by using the boom, but I was hoping to find a stand that could provide me with enough height when I don't need to use the boom.

=================
3) Matthews Low Boy Double Riser with Avenger D650:
- Cost: ~$480 ($260 for stand + $220 for boom)
- Weight: 42.1 lbs (24.5 for stand + 17.6 for boom; obviously not including the light fixture, counterweight and sandbags)
- Closed Length: 106.6cm (stand), 160cm (boom)
- Concerns:
a) Cost! Getting a bit too expensive! Was hoping to keep the total cost around $350 or so.
b) Portability: Seems a bit too heavy for location work. Also D650 seems too long at minimum extension.
c) Sam as (c) for #2, i.e., the low max height on the stand.

=================
4) Avenger A4050CS Combo Boom Stand
- Cost: $492 ($360 for stand + $132 for casters/wheels)
- Weight: 33 lbs
- Closed Length: 165cm
Concerns:
a) Cost.
b) Portability. Although the weight is not too bad, it seems too bulky at 165cm closed length. Also the fact that the boom is integrated means that I cannot reduce the weight and the bulk when I don't need a boom in certain situations.
c) Not sure the max load for this stand is when it is used in boom mode. The spec shows 66 lbs load rating, but I assume that is only in non-boom stand mode.

================
5) Avenger A4039CS Combo Boom Stand
- Cost: $422 ($290 for stand + $132 for casters/wheels)
- Weight: 18.52 lbs
- Closed Length: 113cm
Concerns:
a) Cost.
b) Load rating, and whether it would be able to handle ~14 lbs when in boom mode. The spec shows 26.5 lbs, but again I assume that is in non-boom case.

===============

So which option would you go with, and why?

Thanks...





Jun 04, 2014 at 06:32 PM
cambyses
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


Just realized that Avenger 4039CS does not even take wheels. So Option 5 is out. Still need to decide among the first four...



Jun 04, 2014 at 09:04 PM
lethalfalcon
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


According to Avenger's site, the A4039CS takes the same A9000N caster set that the A4050CS does.

I'm in the same boat as you right now; I need some portability and boom for my B1, but don't want to break the bank or my back. I'm thinking of getting the A4039CS for right now, without the casters. Keep in mind that the casters are going to add almost 7lbs to the setup, so if weight saving is your goal, The Matthews setup is about the same.



Jun 09, 2014 at 08:30 PM
pmiller228
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


I use an avenger d600 on a manfrotto 1004bac. It's definitely not ideal and I need to watch the load and not use it outside. I like the d600 but for your use, definitely get a heavier stand.

I also added the baby drop down pin to the d600 which I almost consider a must.



Jun 11, 2014 at 07:50 PM
cambyses
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


OK, I went with my Option #1 above: Matthews Baby Jr Double Riser with Avenger D600. I received them today, and I very much like the combo. It looks pretty sturdy and looks like it should be able to handle the weight easily. The one key benefit of getting Avenger D650 would have been its Junior pin (1 1/8" pin) for my Jr stand, as opposed to the Baby receiver (5/8") in case of D600, and would have resulted in an even sturdier setup. But, at the end, I decided to go with D600 mainly for portability (8 lbs vs 17.6 lbs) and cost reasons (~$100 cheaper). Given that I find D600 sturdy enough on the stand, I am happy with my decision after all.

As for the drop down pin, I got Avenger F830 instead. I like it, and find it a bit more flexible than the drop down pin. This is a good short review comparing the two: http://www.ucsdphotoclub.com/showthread.php?4482-Review-Avenger-E700-and-F830-Baby-Pins




Jun 12, 2014 at 04:57 AM
rico
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


Congrats, the Low Boy is a great stand. You can always upgrade to the D650 later. Don't forget your safety cable!


Jun 12, 2014 at 05:55 AM
lethalfalcon
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Suggest a rolling boom stand for Profoto B1 on location


That F830 looks a lot nicer than the F700 I have. I think I might have to get one when I get another boom stand for my second B1. I like the A4039CS, though. It's pretty beefy.

I'm glad you found a solution. Perhaps I'll get the separate setup for my second one (although I think I probably will step up to the 650; this would be my pure studio stand). Either that or the A4050CS.



Jun 12, 2014 at 05:58 AM
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