Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Hendrik, Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
  

nMP experience?
  
 
OntheRez
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · nMP experience?


As a professional photographer, I have been flogging my mid 2010 dual quad 2.54 GHz Mac Pro for over 4 years. It has been hot-rodded as far as the machine will go: 32GB RAM, PCI-e SSD boot/root drive, 6G SSD for photo storage. It still has the HD 5770 graphics processor. It is getting long in the tooth as the latest iMac with fastest processor is clearly quicker in most photo applications.

I am both a photojournalist (mostly HS sports) and a "fine art" image maker. The PJ part is always on deadline. I'll often have 1,000 RAW files per event to sort, discard, edit to get the 2,3 that make publication.

As every photographer knows, the RAW files continue to grow and likely the deadlines get shorter. I just read the Barefeets analysis which is quite interesting. I was more than a little surprised at how well the top end iMac holds up against the base nMP. It appears that the nMP kicks butt on "large sequential transfers" and on OpenGL rendering other than this they are close. I am curious as to why the nMP has superior SSD performance. Different type of SSD or more likely superior data paths and handling?

I believe that some of the measures: the LuxMark and the AJA system test are actually aimed more at video and rendering performance thus have little to do with how well the nMP deals with static RAW image files manipulated via say Ps. Is this assumption correct? (It's generally accepted that Adobe doesn't put a lot of energy into multi-threading and multi-processor optimization with its software relying more on brute CPU speed. 15bit's tests on Lr certainly seem to support this.)

This leads me to ask for responses from photographers who are using the nMP. Has the newer hardware made a noticeable/demonstrable improvement in your work flow? The price delta between a trick iMac and the base nMP is only a couple of hundred dollars plus the nMP needs a monitor and an infusion of 3rd party RAM. Don't know how well my 7 year old 30" Cinema HD display will play with the nMP.

It's a very slick (and for video) screaming fast little "trash can." I really wonder if is worth the extra over a maxed iMac.

Robert
(Yes, I know and respect that some will feel the need to note that Winboxes are better. It's like arguing either side of Canikon. Both work. I prefer the interface, reliability, and greater resale value of the Apple boxes, so I stick with them. Am also aware of "Hackintosh" solutions, but to be blunt I no longer get the pleasure - for the invested time - of assembling one's own boxen out of components as I did back in the day when building a 386 was the only way around the very spendy Compaq.



May 31, 2014 at 05:10 PM
Rajan Parrikar
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · nMP experience?


My 6-core, D700 nMP will arrive next week and I am counting the hours. I wonder if Adobe will announce any progress at next month's event on optimization of their code to best exploit these machines.



May 31, 2014 at 06:55 PM
15Bit
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · nMP experience?


Robert,

I think the SSD in the Trashcans is not SATA, but is directly interfaced to the PCIe bus. Expensive, but fast.

I'm sceptical about whether the nMP is worth the premium for photographers - it is clearly designed with video editing in mind, and is optimised for GPU and I/O -heavy workloads. On the other hand, it does offer some security over the iMac in that a failed screen or other integrated component doesn't write-off the whole system.

If you can wait a couple of months, i just got a shiny new 8-core 3.4GHz Xeon (E5-2687v2) for work and when i get a bit of spare time i'm going to run a few LR benchmarks on it. That should give some idea about whether the more expensive CPU options on the nMP are worth getting.



May 31, 2014 at 08:04 PM
OntheRez
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · nMP experience?


Rajan, where in Cali do you live? I can arrange to "receive" your package for you - no cost service to you

15Bit, I've been at this too long. A computer is a largish box that sits on the floor and you stick things in it as you need them. It also has an entire rat's nest of cables coming out of it to all the cr@p I have connected. Hmm lets see: 3 printers, both Ethernet's ports - one to the upstream router, 4 external drives, a Macias keyboard, secondary powered USB hub so I can connect the Wacom and the Logitech mouse. Currently does not make coffee.

You're right on the SSD things and I'm rather surprised it isn't employed on the high end iMac, but then they'd need 2 versions: one with platter and one with SSD. Too expensive. Everything I can find suggests that is intended to be a killer video machine which it apparently is if you stick enough RAM in it and run FCP.

I'm not even going to ask what sort of work you do that nets you an 8-core Xeon. Definitely jealous here. I think a lot of us would appreciate a "working man's view" of photo processing in the trashcan.

Robert



May 31, 2014 at 09:00 PM
15Bit
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · nMP experience?


OntheRez wrote:
I'm not even going to ask what sort of work you do that nets you an 8-core Xeon.
Robert


Analysis of large datasets from our instrumentation. Sadly it sits in the lab, not on my office desk

It's not the fastest box in the building - the computational modelling guys have a collection of dual 8-core boxes....



May 31, 2014 at 09:37 PM
ggreene
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · nMP experience?


Check out the Diglloyd site. It has a lot of good photographer info on the new Mac Pro.

Mac Performance Guide

I initially thought of getting the iMac but there are just too many stories of weird yellow tinting of the display so I've decided to get the nMP and choose my own monitor.

I'm looking at a quad core, 16GB, 1TB SSD, D300 config. If Adobe heavily optimizes cc2014 then I might boost it to 6 core and maybe more GPU but the D500 doesn't seem worth it so that means going all the way to the $900 D700 option.

The biggest boost I am hoping for is doing all my current work on the 1TB of PCIE Flash storage. I'm hoping that alleviates the speed issues on previewing images when culling. LR's library module is pretty slow.



May 31, 2014 at 10:06 PM
Rajan Parrikar
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · nMP experience?


ggreene wrote:
I'm looking at a quad core, 16GB, 1TB SSD, D300 config. If Adobe heavily optimizes cc2014 then I might boost it to 6 core and maybe more GPU but the D500 doesn't seem worth it so that means going all the way to the $900 D700 option.


Yes, the GPUs cannot be replaced which is why I have decided to go with the D700. I, too, am hoping Adobe comes through at June's CC event. With a 6-core, 1TB, 64GB, D700 set-up you are probably set for the next 4-5 years.



May 31, 2014 at 11:08 PM
Alan321
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · nMP experience?


I suggest you check out Lloyd Chambers' take on the new Mac Pro at www.macperformanceguide.com

I think that for still photography he sees little or no merit in upgrading to the new Mac Pro. The little that you can gain is far outweighed by the cost, including changing over to a different external drive interface (no eSATA), and the added mess of cables and drives that used to be inside the box. There are cpu upgrade options for the old model(s) at OWC, and you can probably get a new graphics card for Ps to make use of.

Personally, I like thunderbolt but I expect that you already have or can get a very capable eSATA system for external drives. I have a 17" MBP with one tb port and it is much faster than external USB 3.0 on a windows notebook, but I have no non-tb way of getting speedy eSATA. The conversion to tb drive enclosures cost me more than a few dollars.

I would not get an iMac because I would want a better grade of screen, and it is not so easy or cheap to get rid of the iMac screen An upgraded Mac Mini would be useful but they don't yet exist.


If you need to do faster culling then consider which software you use. There's sure to be something faster and more efficient than Ps or Br or Lr, unless your culling routine includes making some adjustments and rebuilding the previews in which case the speedy alternatives bog down because they are basically doing what Lr has to do; raw conversion and processing instead of just showing the built-in jpeg preview. If you cull the majority of photos without tweaking them then different software will speed things up a lot by reducing how much Lr has to do. You might use a two-stage workflow too.

For faster editing Ps might need faster access to data drives or just use a more processor-friendly but larger file format that avoids slow single-core file compression. Ps can use a graphics card for speeding sharpening, etc., but only one. The 2nd one in a new mac pro is wasted.

Lr cannot benefit from the faster graphics card except by displaying lots of pixels faster, but you don't need a new computer for that. It does benefit from speedy cpu cores, so getting a faster cpu might help significantly if it can be done. I'm not familiar with the Xeon cpus but the i7, etc. have a built-in turbo charge that works well if you can keep the cpu cool enough. On a hot day with lots of cpu work they tend to slow down to nominal speed. Another Lr option is to let it do all of the image previews while you do something else and then it will let you browse through them a lot faster, at least until you start tweaking them or wanting bigger previews. If you are going to tweak everything then start with small previews for the culling so that you don't waste too much time building previews that will only be replaced.

- Alan



Jun 02, 2014 at 03:18 PM
OntheRez
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · nMP experience?


Alan and others,

The Digilloyd read is highly recommended for anyone seriously considering the nMP. Thanks to those who mentioned it. I don't always agree with Chamber's assumptions/preferences but his analyses are generally as accurate as he can make them. I think it's clear at the higher end that the nMP is a remarkable numeric analysis device and would be quite useful in video production. As a photo processing tool, I suspect it is well ahead of the software necessary to utilize it. Unlike Alan I didn't get the impression that he doesn’t recommend the nMP, just that he feels the price/performance point is between the 6 and 8 core models. If I read him correctly he is now using one (or more). This is highlighted by his lengthy article on how to transition to the nMP.

Several people (ggreene, Rajan) hold out hope that Ps CC will soon make use of multiple GPUs. It's extremely difficult for me to base a major capital expenditure on the "hope" that a generally unresponsive software vendor - in this case Adobe - will aggressively spend the money to rewrite key portions of existing programs to make use of a single vendor's equipment even given the Mac's popularity in the video, photo, and graphics fields.

Alan, like you I'm very hesitant to buy into the iMac because as you say "it's not so easy or cheap to get rid of the screen." I've always preferred the ability to modify my hardware by adding/removing interior devices. That said I'll bet dollars to donuts that we will see mMP "clones" shortly just as there are already a host of iMac clones on the market. We are likely seeing a major shift in "desktop" computing to small closed containers and peripherals being pushed out to external devices. Given the existence of a vibrant gamer/hacker culture in the Windows world, I think traditional cases will continue to exist for sometime, but let's face it: there are apparently plenty of people with enough disposable income to buy things simply because they are "cool" (or whatever the current term is . I think I'll keep flogging my old MP and watch to see how the software vendors respond to the potential power of fast dual GPUs, Thunderbolt (which does have potential), and some of the other things available in the nMP.

Robert

Alan, I think I've made use of all available old Mac Pro improvements short of faster processors - very expensive - and the latest ATI card at ~$450. Don't know that it would be that much improvement.



Jun 02, 2014 at 05:15 PM
15Bit
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · nMP experience?


I think at this point i would also sit on the fence for a few months until LR6 releases. If it has GPU support (especially multi-GPU support), then the Trashcan becomes attractive. If it doesn't, then you have to make a more difficult choice.

I'm not so sure about the clones. In fairness to Apple, whilst they charge a premium they usually make a good job of the engineering. The clones often suffer critical weaknesses. And even several years on, i've yet to see an iMac clone that has the same level of class and style about it.



Jun 02, 2014 at 05:37 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



ggreene
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · nMP experience?


If I had the older Mac Pro I would be waiting as well. For photographic processing it's probably still right there with the nMP for most things. That time will let you assess where Adobe is going with optimization and where Apple is going with third party support and upgrade-ability.

For me I have no choice as my PC is in pretty rough shape and I want to move to a Mac as my tolerance for Windows/Dell has bottomed out. My photo archive needs to expand to 4TB drives so I'm looking at a major uplift anyways.



Jun 02, 2014 at 06:38 PM
OntheRez
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · nMP experience?


After having expended a fair amount of time/energy examining the nMP vs iMac vs standing pat, I'm definitely on hold until (or if) software begins to exploit the nMP hardware. I suspect it will happen but then who knows.

15Bit: Like you I've always been willing to pay the premium for the superb engineering. I've also always considered the integrated and generally rational OS interface to be worth extra. Now having seen the proposed changes in 10.10, I wonder. I really don't want a $5K iPad

ggreene: It's not like I'm desperate. What I have works, though the time to get the job done does slowly increase. I use to to run Win boxes and support others. I just finally decided life was too short to spend working with what - to me - is an inferior OS. Obviously the vast majority of people don't agree with me, but I've rarely been on the winning side of anything <shrug>

One thing you might consider is a used MP 5.1. There some excellent values out there, but if you can afford the nMP then I'd certainly be going for it.

Alan: I stopped and studied my ingest/sort/cull workflow. Currently I use a FW 800 card reader (no USB3 on this machine) and just dump everything in the "incoming" folder in Lr 5.4. Photos are event-date stamped with a standard naming system. I tell Lr to use camera generated jpg as I assume that is faster. I did use PhotoMechanix which is much faster (and more flexible), but after download and cull I still have to import preliminary keepers into Lr. Seemed to be a wash time wise, and I had to maintain a separate piece of software. The catalog is kept on the PCI-e SSD boot drive. Photos are stored on a 6G internal SSD (thought the MP 5.1 only moves at 3G rates).

I can tear thru a photo set pretty fast on reject/keep basis as rating makes no sense to me. Either it is or isn't. Still I do have to look at every photo and Lr takes a noticeable amount of time to generate a view from RAW. Perhaps there is a setting there I'm missing? My biggest speed complaints about Lr (and by inference, Ps) is the time it takes to swap modules and RAW view generation. Am I the only one who has to sit there and watch the SPOD while Lr switches from library to develop? One of Aperture's real pluses is that it has an integrated work space. You don't have to do the clunky module move. Also, the "Edit in Ps" is slow to transition even if Ps is already open. The save back is also clunky as it seems that I'm always left with the file open in Ps where I have to remember if I need to re-save it. Photos for pub on deadline are almost always dealt with in Lr unless the situation is extreme.

I think it's clear that Lr ignores openCL or any other graphics speed enhancement. I always go back to my original contention that Adobe whipped up Lr in response to Apple's Aperture which was clearly superior to Bridge, and they didn't really think it would be all that big of a deal. It took off and they still aren't sure what to do with it, to wit: it isn't in CC.

I'm always open to suggestions for improvement in my work flow.

Robert



Jun 03, 2014 at 04:20 PM
ggreene
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · nMP experience?


OntheRez wrote:
Like you I've always been willing to pay the premium for the superb engineering. I've also always considered the integrated and generally rational OS interface to be worth extra. Now having seen the proposed changes in 10.10, I wonder. I really don't want a $5K iPad


I have to admit that the new UI changes to OSX have me pausing a little as well. I'm still on iOS6 for my iPhone as I thought that iOS7 was an over reach in minimalism and flatness. Apple is pushing out these beautiful high res Retina displays but at the same time rolling out OS upgrades that do away with any kind of aesthetic that use to separate themselves from the Windows/Android world.

I really do hope that Apple puts some UI options in OSX so that users can customize it.



Jun 04, 2014 at 03:33 PM
15Bit
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · nMP experience?


Oddly enough my new job comes with an iPhone: The only Apple product i've ever had, excepting an iPod. And after a month with it i have concluded that i really dislike iOS. Android is really a much better compromise of functionality with ease of use.


Jun 04, 2014 at 04:04 PM
jbregar
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · nMP experience?


ggreene wrote:
I really do hope that Apple puts some UI options in OSX so that users can customize it.


I wouldn't hold my breath for that one. Apple is pretty take it or leave it when it comes to UX.

Like it or not, flat UI design is here and will probably stick around a while. I, for one, prefer the UI get out of my way and not waste CPU/GPU cycles on drawing shadows and gradients and felt and brushed steel. The new dark theme for OS X Yosemite looks awesome.



Jun 06, 2014 at 07:14 PM
butchM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · nMP experience?


ggreene wrote:
I have to admit that the new UI changes to OSX have me pausing a little as well. I'm still on iOS6 for my iPhone as I thought that iOS7 was an over reach in minimalism and flatness. Apple is pushing out these beautiful high res Retina displays but at the same time rolling out OS upgrades that do away with any kind of aesthetic that use to separate themselves from the Windows/Android world.

I really do hope that Apple puts some UI options in OSX so that users can customize it.


I too was a bit annoyed at the major shift in UI with the introduction of iOS 7 ... though I was really intrigued with some of the improved and additional functionality.

While I have never been a fan of change purely for the sake of change ... I now find that when I use one of my legacy iOS devices ... (I have an original iPad that is stuck on iOS 5.1 that I use in the studio as a teleprompter, credit card processor, hand-held image viewer for clients, etc. ... and a iPod Touch 4th Gen stuck on iOS 6.x that I mainly use to record audio using a Rode SmartLav for video interviews) ... After using iOS 7 for some time on my iPhone and newer generation iPads ... when I go back to those older devices, them seem somehow dated and old by comparison ...though just as functional as they day they were first offered.

A minor point ... but I have grown accustomed to iOS 7 will no ill effects ...



Jun 06, 2014 at 09:46 PM
Alan321
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · nMP experience?


I was more annoyed by not being able to transfer all data between a Mac and the iPad, iPod, etc., except by using the cloud. The old wire cable should still be usable. Instead it is getting even more cloud based with every iteration and that, more than anything else, pushed me back to Windows when it was time to upgrade.


Robert, you're between a rock and hard place with the way you use Lr. On one hand you use minimal previews to get the images into Lr as quickly as possible. That's good because you are able to keep/reject your images easily and move on to the next one. I find too many need some sort of enhancement over the in-camera jpeg image before I can decide whether or not to keep it. That enhancement involves editing, which is especially slow in the Library module when we don't have a decent preview to work with, and can also be slow in the develop module if we don't have the image already partially converted from raw in the ACR cache.
On the other hand, if you told Lr to import everything and build a suitably large preview that easily fills your screen and/or allows full size zooming, then things will take ages for Lr get through it all. However, once done, it will be purr along very nicely in the Library module.
On the other other hand, having spent a long time building 1:1 previews, Lr still has to do most of it again if you make any edits in the develop module.

The ACR cache size is configurable in the Lr preferences. Make sure it is big enough to hold every image in your library and opening those images will always be quicker than if the entire raw conversion has to be done again. Admittedly, using SSDs speeds things up either way in my Mac experience but definitely do not leave the ACR cache on a hard drive.

The Lr Preview cache is not configurable except in terms of the size of each preview. The cache as a whole will keep growing as required. Now that I am using a large screen I use 1:1 previews. These too live on an SSD.

I also avoid using sidecar files but the impact they have on performance will be far less with a speedy SSD than with a HDD. Every time you do an edit the sidecar file will be updated and saved. That can really mess with the efficiency of a hard drive by putting the heads where you don't want them for the next step.

Because you are using SSDs you need to keep them trimmed if they do not already self-trim. Otherwise writing to them will slow down significantly over time as the SSD fills up.

A faster graphics card might speed up writing to the screen but it won't make a lot of difference unless you are using lots of pixels, such as with a 4k screen or any of the large screens with 2560x1440 or similar. However, it apparently makes a bigger difference in Ps because apart from being used to speed up sharpening and some other edits, it is also used for rotating, moving and zooming the image.

About the only other Lr speed enhancement I can think of at the moment is to not apply sharpening, noise reduction and other computationally intensive edits until as late as possible. So for example, adjust the brightness and colour enough to decide that an image is worth persisting with before you mess with NR and sharpening. That way, if it trashed then you haven't bogged Lr down with unnecessary processing. That processing will be repeated each and every time you open the image in the develop module, so it is even faster to make the changes in the library module if you can - and that in turn is faster if you already have the the correct preview built. If you try to zoom in too far then Lr will have to build a new preview and that will probably mean do another raw conversion.

A huge advantage of using the Library module when you have the right previews is that you can browse through the images very quickly without the need to do the raw conversion each and every time you display the image.

- Alan



Jun 07, 2014 at 07:47 AM
ggreene
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · nMP experience?


butchM wrote:
I too was a bit annoyed at the major shift in UI with the introduction of iOS 7 ... though I was really intrigued with some of the improved and additional functionality.


Don't get me wrong I think the functionality of iOS7 is much better. It's just the aesthetics of the UI that is a set back to me. I hate that blurry dock and the overly white interface. I would have to jailbreak at this point to get iOS7 to anywhere near something I could stand.



Jun 07, 2014 at 01:43 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · nMP experience?


15Bit wrote:
I'm sceptical about whether the nMP is worth the premium for photographers - it is clearly designed with video editing in mind, and is optimised for GPU and I/O -heavy workloads. On the other hand, it does offer some security over the iMac in that a failed screen or other integrated component doesn't write-off the whole system.


When it comes to the new Mac Pro, count me as very intrigued. In terms of concept and execution, it is a beautiful piece of gear. But I'm not convinced that the actual benefits for photographers are going to be worth it.

It seems like a really fine piece of computing equipment, and its specs are clearly very wonderful. Back in the day when we all, for good reason, believed that we needed a "tower" system or similar in order to get the necessary power for high end work, we would have flocked to such a beast.

But, frankly, today the best-equipped iMac systems are very powerful and certainly powerful enough for just about any photographer. The processors are excellent, you can put plenty of RAM in the things, connectivity is great (to additional monitors, scanners, printers, arrays of external drives, various forms of networking), the monitors are quite good. (And you can attach additional monitors, either because you want far more screen real estate or because you want a different monitor.) The cost is significantly lower than a full-on system built from the new CPU and a standalone monitor.

Yes, you can eke out some additional speed with the new system, but given the very good speed of the iMac system, it is reasonable to ask whether the additional cost represents a good investment.

Dan



Jun 07, 2014 at 02:23 PM
OntheRez
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · nMP experience?


Alan,

It appears that Apple - quietly - restored sync by wire with the 10.9.3 upgrade. I never read anything official but I have returned to syncing via USB cable and it works a treat. Occasionally if they get beat up enough Apple will fix something major.

I've come to about the same conclusion you have on my Lr settings. My camera raw cache is set at 30GB which seems to me - lacking any empirical data - to be generous. I have no presets as they would take more time. The trade-off between having the RAW preview "suitably large" on import would make import much slower and seems counter-intuitive since the vast majority of all my pix from any sporting even hit the circular file promptly. It's just part of the challenge in sporting events - particularly when shot in horrible light - that I'm going to miss more than I'm going to get.

OTOH as you note if the RAW hasn't built a preview when you need to do minor edits then the whole thing goes to a crawl while that gets done. Obviously I need to throw more CPU cycles at the problem which led to this entire discussion. I work on a 30" screen - though not full screen - so that's part of the issue. Ever since I was able to get used (out of spec - thus cheap) Sony 30" medical CRTs and hack them so they'd work on a IIci I've refused to have a smaller screen.

I'm always amazed that when I make the assertion that "Lr was cobbled together by Adobe in response to Apple's remarkable Aperture and when it took off they didn't really know what to do with it" that no one tells me I'm crazy. I think Adobe really believed that those of us dealing with large numbers of photos would plod along with Bridge - a monstrosity I've never used. I also find it really intriguing that Adobe - so far - hasn't sucked Lr into the "cloud." I'm not sure why that is. Push back against CC? Don't believe pros use Lr? Still can't figure out what to do with the program?

15bit I was an anti-cellphone user until I shattered a leg (bones sticking out type of thing) working alone about 15 miles from the nearest town and had to drag my shocky a** to town. After that I got one. I do clearly remember the rush to make cells smaller. I think I had a Motorola Razor or something that fit neatly in the hand and pocket. Now they just get bigger. I predict ghetto blaster phones in the next few years FWIW I've used several of the clones and find the iPhone better than the others but truly they're all fairly similar.

Butch and jbregar, I agree that "flat" for want of better term is likely to be de mode for awhile. It used to be we changed car shapes every year - bigger/smaller fins, 2 - 4 headlight, etc., while the mechanicals evolved slowly. Now we have OS of the year (and I see this in both Win and OSX). The bumbling from Win2K to XP to Vista (may it rot in its well deserved hell) to Win7 (which is fairly rational) to Win8 which I really haven't used, certainly wasn't driven by a coherent cognitive science based vision of how to make work better for users. OSX up till about 10.7 stayed relatively consistent. Starting with 10.8 and now accelerating to 10.10 seems to be an exercise in "styling" not in usability.

Cognitive Science - a field I was once a semi-cross disciplinary "expert" in - points to very clear things about how humans perceive, the values and limitation of color in mental decoding, the extraordinary value in predictable and repeatable inputs that produce corresponding outputs, etc. In a nutshell removing color from nearly any human machine interface DOES NOT improve its usability. Randomly changing the relationship between inputs and outputs drive people stark raving bonkers.

I've gotten use to iOS 7 and after tweaking things like contrast and font get along fine with it. It seems in both the Win and OSX world the designers (note not programmers) are trying to drive the file structure underground so far that you need a secret code to get thru the trap door. Maybe it's just that I've been at this too long, but I work from the file, not the application in no small part because most of my work requires as many as 3-5 applications to complete.

Anyway, I'll go take a look at the "dark theme" for 10.10 and stop whining. So far there are 3rd party guys out there that can still hack the interface to give me color in the key places I need it and make the window/file structure interface rational. I suppose eventually both Microsoft and Apple (or most likely whomever replaces them) will make OS/App/File interfaces so smart that we won't need to know the difference, but that seems a long ways off and the transition is ugly.

Robert



Jun 07, 2014 at 03:00 PM
1
       2       3       end




FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password