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Archive 2014 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

bggary
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

I'm on a quest for my "buy once, cry once" tripod. After years of fussing with low-end legs, I'm finally ready to buy a good one.

I did a bunch of research, quickly narrowed it down to RRS or Gitzo, and then pulled out the credit-card to buy an RRS 34L. My thinking was steered by the RRS staff-member who said that based on my interests and gear, I was "between" the 2-series and 3-series, and "generally speaking, bigger is better."

When the 34L arrived, I was struck by how *huge* it is. Top legs are nearly 1.5" in diameter. Platform is over 3" in diameter. It is gorgeous, but bigger than I expected.

I immediately understood why the 34L is pitched toward studio use, and the 24L is aimed toward the "frequent flyer / weekend warrior." And so I'm second-guessing the choice, since basically I want legs that will be easy to carry, easy to pack in checked bags, and still strong enough (worst case is about 6 lbs - D7100 with a Nikon 80-400 on a collar mount). I don't anticipate buying any long/heavy primes in the near future.

For comparison sake:

34L =

68.3" tall
4.7 pounds
50-lb capacity
24" long, collapsed
3" platform
1.45" top-leg diameter

24L =

66.8" tall
3.7 pounds
40-lb capacity
23" long, collapsed
2" platform
1.28" top-leg diameter

So, the 24L is an inch shorter, a pound lighter, slimmer and shorter when collapsed. The 34L is presumably stronger because of the larger diameter legs, probably has more vibration-damping, and is probably sturdier due to the bigger platform. But I don't have any way to quantify the value of those things. Both are sufficiently tall (my eyes are at 67" when standing, so both put the viewfinder more than high enough without a center column.)

Long story short, I'm leaning toward sending back the 34L and getting a 24L but before I do I wanted to check in.... is there any real "downside" to having "too much" tripod? are there situations in which I would regret sending back the heavier/thicker/sturdier one?

Bottom line, if I'm hiking through Zion in a quest for a great sunrise shot, which is am I likely to feel is more important.... slightly less weight/bulk to carry, or slightly more stable platform when I get there?

Thx,
Bruce

May 05, 2014 at 03:48 PM

Monito
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

24 inches versus 23 inches doesn't make much difference in baggage.

A pound heavier may make a difference on a long hike.

Both are four section, so equally stability in that regard. Both have more than enough capacity for the Nikon plus long telephoto.

May 05, 2014 at 03:56 PM

godfather
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

I'd personally keep the 34L. I don't really care for light weight / small leg diameter 4 section tripods. I would probably compare the 3 section 2 series to the 4 section 3 series. However, I'm only 5'8" tall so the 52" plus ball head would still work...

May 05, 2014 at 05:05 PM

Roland W
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

I also like the idea of you keeping the 34L, but I like to have a bit larger tripod than I actually need. I have been happy with my TVC-33, and much prefer it to my Gitzo Series 3 tripod. If you never get a bigger lens, the 24L may serve you well, but remember, you are buying a tripod that will likely last you a decade or two, so buying once and not needing to upgrade later has a lot to be said for it.

May 05, 2014 at 05:39 PM

bggary
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

So at this point the main thing that is skewing my thinking toward the 34L is that it should be "more stable".

Is there any way to test/measure that? A friend told me that I tape a laser pointer to the barrel of a lens, point it at a wall 25-30 feet away, trip the shutter remotely and watch how much the dot moves on the wall when the mirror slaps up and back. *IF* I could discern a difference between the two (e.g., if the dot moves on the 24L and doesn't on the 34L), it might sway me toward the 34L.... although then I'd have to see if hanging weight off the bottom of the 24L mitigates it any. Hmmm.

The main thing that's steering me away from the 34L at this point is the bulk. With the thicker legs and bigger platform, it takes up significantly more space in a suitcase. the extra weight when hiking is not a deal-breaker, but the extra volume when flying might be.

May 05, 2014 at 06:17 PM

cambyses
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

Our 34L finally got shipped today, so haven't received it yet. But still I think I would vote for keeping your 34L. We have a MeFoto RoadTrip tripod for use in general travel and quick hikes, and it has served us well with a gripped D800E+70-200/2.8. So we will be using 34L only in cases where a serious tripod use is called for, and with our heaviest gear (e.g., D4+200/2+TC2). And in such cases, I think a pound in weight difference and an inch shorter folded length would be negligible. Plus, I viewed this as a one-time purchase and so I wanted it to be something that won't need an upgrade again if, in future (and I do NOT mean near future

), we decide to add, say, a 600mm to our lens collection.

May 05, 2014 at 06:27 PM

Charlie N
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

keep the 34L

I love doing tripod work, and it's better to be oversized than just the right size. I dont think I'll ever use a "vacation" tripod anymore. I've carried full sized tripods internationally, so it's no issue. Had a Bogen 3021 tripod in the past.... That took up a lot of space as well.

laser trick might work, but it doesnt tell you the story in windy situations. Nothing worse than a great setup with slightly soft images because the tripod couldnt handle the weight......

May 05, 2014 at 06:34 PM

krementz
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

Another advantage is of an oversize tripod is "creative" setups. Sometimes you may have to totally stretch out a leg to get support on a steep or rocky terrain. You put a side arm or screw slide to make some macro shots in the field work. You add a flash and Better Beamer, or some radio poppers. You add some macro extender tubes to a lens, making it much more leveraged. You attach a radio remote or iPad. Or it is just blowing like hell, and you are hanging a 20 pound pack because you do not want to partially unpack it. The legs gets spread-stressed in deep snow. You have some rain guards protecting your equipment in a downpour. Etc.

If you don't think the hiking weight is a problem, I would definitely go oversize.

Stable with a laser in your studio is way different than when it is windy and you are very cold and clumsy.

May 05, 2014 at 09:35 PM

MalbikEndar
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

> A friend told me that I tape a laser pointer to the barrel of a lens, point it at a wall 25-30 feet away, trip the shutter remotely and watch how much the dot moves on the wall when the mirror slaps up and back.

OK I've heard that...but...if you are using a 400 mm lens or other long lens and proper long lens technique, with your hand draped over the lens to damp vibrations...is the tripod going to make any difference at all?

May 06, 2014 at 07:13 AM

Monito
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

Here's a better tripod test that is more objective and amenable to measurement, I think. It is also good for testing handheld technique too. I haven't tried it myself but now I should. Perhaps people can report on similar tests they have done.

Point the laser dot at the wall or arrange some other tiny point light source (pin sized hole with a light behind) or reflection (a bright point on a chrome kettle or car fender at night could work). Anchor the laser by taping it to a table or chair or some other arrangement. You want a rock solid target. Be sure to have the IS turned completely off.

Make a photograph of the point at a high shutter speed (say 1/1000 sec) on the tripod. That is your reference. You can measure the size of the dot in pixels. When looking at these results it might be easier to see if the background is darkened and then the image is inverted during processing.

Now make a series of photos with the same exposure while you vary the aperture and/or ISO to get shutterspeeds starting at 1/250 (should have no motion detectable) and going slower. You might see some movement as fast as 1/125 and it may surprise you how much movement you see at 1/60 through 1/2 second. A good tripod will damp all resonance within one second, so the 1 second and slower should start to look very good. For long exposures, there is more still exposure time than resonance time. A cheapy tripod ($40 special) may resonate significantly up to 5 seconds.

Repeat the test with the mirror locked up and at least two seconds between lockup and shutter release.

You can experiment with weighting the tripod or damping the combination in certain ways by hanging a loaded photo bag on it or lightly holding the camera & lens combo above the tripod attachment.

Here is a test report that gave me the technique. The results are less important than the technique and what is shows about resonance. Look at the photos starting on page 9 of the PDF. They are actually simulations based on the vibration graphs. See the wind test on page 12 and the effect of a center column on page 13.

http://markins.com/charlie/report.html

May 06, 2014 at 08:13 AM

coogee
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

I have a TVC-33, which I'm guessing is in the middle of the two you looked at?
I find it a perfect compromise between size/stability and portability. Fully extended it is always a little too tall (I'm 5'8") but I can carry it easily using the quiver case, plus my camera/lens bag. I don't fly remotely near enough to factor carry on sizes in.
It still looks big but never feels big.

I definitely subscribe to the 'big as you can manage' school of thought.

It's wonderful when I set it up, single best purchase it ever made. I guess the best tripods are also 'the best one is the one you have with you'. I'd never be without mine. I could occy strap it to my bag for an easier carry but more awkward to get up/down, but never felt the need.

Jun 10, 2014 at 04:55 AM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

My large heavy tripods rarely leave the house and, when they do, only when I know the trunk of my car is a hop and skip from the shoot. On the other hand, my wee Gitzo Mountaineer gets used a lot simply because it's an easy carry and fits in my carry-on without removing the head.

Jun 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM

Paul Mo
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

Gochugogi wrote:
My large heavy tripods rarely leave the house and, when they do, only when I know the trunk of my car is a hop and skip from the shoot.

Yep, me too.

Jun 10, 2014 at 08:01 PM

subidiom
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

The only downside to 'overbuying' is too much money, size and/or weight for your needs. Everything else is upside in terms of stability and load capacity.

It's a simple optimization problem...make a ranked list of priorities and the answer will be clear. The current crop of top of the line tripods from RRS and Gitzo don't disappoint.

For me, the TVC-24L (plus BH-40) has been the perfect compromise. I don't use much big glass beyond the 70-200 2.8 or 300 4, so no problem there. I have recently used a fluid head mounted on the RRS leveling base for a video rig and have been very happy with the setup. Nice and stable during panning, no complaints. I don't view my legs as ever becoming the weak link for what I do. YMMV.

Jun 10, 2014 at 09:53 PM

MikeW
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

I don't think I'd be too concerned with the legs, but what you stick on top. After a 50km hike I was wishing I had a BH-40 instead of the 55 on m 33's. I wouldn't sacrifice stability for fear of a pound & remember to use lock up & a shutter release...as I found out yesterday

Jun 21, 2014 at 11:10 PM

binary visions
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

What's "hiking" for you?

If hiking means a two or three hour trudge to get to your sunrise location, then I'd tend to be less worried about an extra couple pounds.

If you're loading up for overnights, multi-day hikes, or otherwise regularly spending entire days walking, those pounds add up in a hurry. I'm not saying you definitely shouldn't carry the larger setup, just that "optional" pounds suck when you've been humping them over uneven terrain and up canyon walls for a couple days.

Jun 22, 2014 at 07:22 AM

wsheldon
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

krementz wrote:
Another advantage is of an oversize tripod is "creative" setups. Sometimes you may have to totally stretch out a leg to get support on a steep or rocky terrain. You put a side arm or screw slide to make some macro shots in the field work. You add a flash and Better Beamer, or some radio poppers. You add some macro extender tubes to a lens, making it much more leveraged. You attach a radio remote or iPad. Or it is just blowing like hell, and you are hanging a 20 pound pack because you do not want to partially...Show more →

Completely agree with this. Between the additional mass and wide apex/spider, you can get a stable setup under a huge range of conditions. I went through this same dilemma earlier this year and I'm really glad I got the 34L. I've had it all splayed out in a stream to get over a large rock, and had a very heavy macro and flash rig way off center on a focusing rail, and the tripod has been rock steady. I hiked around with it on my back yesterday (using a strap), and it is big but manageable.

Like a previous poster I picked up a Mefoto Roadtrip for lighter gear and longer hikes, but I never regret taking the 34L out with me and miss it when I don't.

Jun 22, 2014 at 07:42 AM

sjms
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

TVC33/34:
the good:
rigid
still one of the lightest in its class
does 99% of photographers needs
accepts an excellent leveling base setup
accepts an excellent CP setup
designed around the BH55 head

the not so good:
not as light is you think

TVC23/24
the good:
rigid
lighter then the TVC33 while doing 85%+ of the 33s duty
lighter then most in its class that actually do what they say in the real world
accepts an excellent CP setup
accepts a leveling assy*
designed around the BH40 head but will take a BH55

the not so good
*the available leveling assy is a compromise that looks to fit a BH55 better.
it works just not as elegantly with the BH40

TVC14
the good:
the most rigid in it class of travel tripod does about 75% of the duty of a 23/24
excellent CP that can be removed to lighten it further
built around the BH30 but accepts the BH40 gracefully.
the not so good:
not as compact folded as some

regretfully there is no single legset does all option out there. you will end up with more then one for various uses out of various needs.

my TVC24/BH40 set is now my most used around short of air travel where the TQC14 takes over. my TVC33 as i said in the beginning is for the heavy stuff like the clamp on picnic table and wide screen TV

in total height take in account the stack of the head you use

also take in account the folded diameters not just the lengths

Edited on Jun 22, 2014 at 12:59 PM · View previous versions

Jun 22, 2014 at 09:49 AM

m.sommers00
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

I've got a tvc-33s and while it's rock solid, it's a bit much to haul around for hiking and travelling. Maybe if I was a professional I'd think differently but it's size and weight are a bit of a deterrent depending on the environment. I have a much smaller setup that I use for travel and backcountry hiking - it's mostly landscape stuff anyways without super long exposures.

That said when I'm shooting wildlife and have a gimbal setup, I always bring it.

Jun 22, 2014 at 12:12 PM

Arka
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Is there a downside to overbuying on a tripod?

Same here. Our Gitzo 0530 gets more use than the 1530', though both are pretty light. Neither I nor my wife would ever use a 3.7 it 4.7 lb (before the head!) tripod.

Are the RRS tripods any better than the Gitzos at keeping sand out? Are they easier to clean?

Gochugogi wrote:
My large heavy tripods rarely leave the house and, when they do, only when I know the trunk of my car is a hop and skip from the shoot. On the other hand, my wee Gitzo Mountaineer gets used a lot simply because it's an easy carry and fits in my carry-on without removing the head.

Jun 23, 2014 at 04:18 AM

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