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Archive 2014 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII

  
 
Bsmooth
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


I'm struggling a bit with the tracking for my 1DMKII. Yes I am trying to track Swallows, which I know are tuff anyways.
Normally I use center only focus point, but over the weekend I tried Custom Function 17 which uses the AF point expansion. I was using this with my 100-400, and I realize that the AF points won't light up while in AI servo, but even though I had them on I really didn't notice the outer points grabbing any shots of the swallows, matter of fact I had my finger on the shutter button half way down, and even though I was on the bird, the bird never came in focus. This didn't happen just once, but several times.
This was with the bird against just the sky with no background clutter.
How long does it take to actually lock on and focus ? I thought it was pretty much instantaneous.



May 05, 2014 at 08:46 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Focus lock is very fast, if the subject is on an active AF point. I prefer using backbutton AF, because you can mash the button in with your thumb, and there's no chance that the AF might not be engaged, while there is a chance when you're half-pushing the shutter button (or at least, you think you are).

Are you using IS turned on? It should probably be off, if you're kind of close to the swallows, because they go all over the place and you can end up fighting the IS (even in Mode 2). This can make the image unsharp, even if the focus is on.

How well does your AF tracking work on less challenging subjects?

P.S. the 100-400L IS isn't the sharpest knife in the AF drawer. Do you remember the "keeper rate" thread? Getting decent photos of swallows is difficult even when you're using lenses with better AF than the 100-400L, such as the 400/5.6L and 70-200/2.8L IS II, and even when you have considerable experience with this situation.



May 05, 2014 at 09:02 AM
Bsmooth
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Yes I remember the keeper rate thread, I was pretty shocked the percentages weren't higher. I tried with the IS on and off, and it still didn't seem to make much of a difference.
On static or slower moving objects it seems to work fine. Matter of fact with the 7 point AF expansion it seemed to help at least in an open sky.
The part that really drove me crazy, was the fact in AI servo mode I never really get a focus lock beep. I guess according to the manual your not suppose to.
Another thing like you say as the Swallows move quickly and erratically was how I had the distance set on my 100-400. I finally found the shorter distance to infinity worked the best.
I think I'm destined to get a 400 5.6, except the fact the minimum focis distance is around 11 feet, That could be a pain not knowing when your actually too close, especailly since I do a lot of walking with my lenses not on a tripod.



May 05, 2014 at 11:27 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Is it a 1D2 or a 1D2N? I had two 1D2's at one point doing a lot of sports work and I had a brief opportunity to use a 1D2N and I liked it's tracking accuracy better then my 1D2's especially with the ring of fire enabled.

Canon officially said the AF was the same but that was my experience from doing games with it over a week long period.



May 05, 2014 at 11:35 AM
Shutterbug2006
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


I used a Mk III and a 100-400 over the weekend to take shots of small, fast moving birds. It was definitely challenging, but I got some really nice shots.

You don't get a focus confirmation beep with AI servo, or it would be beeping all the time, the focus is always shifting if the bird is moving around and you have the shutter half-depressed.

Keeping the shutter speed high enough and the aperture small enough to increase the depth of field to get decent shots requires good light.

This lens needed an AF micro adjustment, which made a tremendous difference to the IQ I was getting.



May 05, 2014 at 11:39 AM
Bsmooth
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Just a plain ole 1DMKII. Shutter speed was 1/1600 and aperture was F5.6 to F8.


May 05, 2014 at 01:30 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


ggreene wrote:
Is it a 1D2 or a 1D2N? I had two 1D2's at one point doing a lot of sports work and I had a brief opportunity to use a 1D2N and I liked it's tracking accuracy better then my 1D2's especially with the ring of fire enabled.

Canon officially said the AF was the same but that was my experience from doing games with it over a week long period.


interesting, I once had another sports shooter tell me the same thing, he felt his 1D2n did better and got rid of the 1D2, he though they must;ve done some secret improvement under the hood



May 05, 2014 at 02:24 PM
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


i had much better success rate tracking with my 1dsmk2, over my 1dmk2. i sold that last year.


May 05, 2014 at 02:31 PM
Shutterbug2006
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Bsmooth wrote:
Just a plain ole 1DMKII. Shutter speed was 1/1600 and aperture was F5.6 to F8.


I saw the II as a III.

I have three Mk II cameras Love 'em. The Mk III ups the game a bit, but not by a lot.





May 06, 2014 at 12:26 AM
Alan321
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


My 1D2 had a focus problem. Once fixed by Canon it was able to accurately focus on the small lettering of the licence plate of a car appoaching me. With a 300mm f/2.8L lens I could get 18 or 19 pin sharp shots out of a burst of 20 at 8.5 frames per second.

However, the 100-400L cannot respond to focus instructions as quickly as the 300 f/2.8L IS can, and the 1D2 could not maintain pin sharp focus at full frame rate for a full burst. It would skip a beat every 6-8 shots - except when my 100-400 had a focus problem, also fixed by Canon. For a while both the lens and the camera had their AF problems at the same time, which made diagnosis a little tricky, but the camera would never skip a beat during a continuous burst because never realised how poor the focus was throughout the burst.


Focus tracking - as in predictive AF - is mostly about predicting what the focus distance should be for the next shot based on the current distance and the rate of change of the distance.

Predictive AF can benefit by you tracking the subject for 0.5 to 1 second before you begin shooting. Afterall, it can't predict what the future focus distance will be if it has no history of distance changes to work with. Be aware taht even the shortest release of the AF button (whether shutter button or the * button) will instantly trash all knowledge of the predictive AF data. This can be helpful if it was wrong anyway, but not if you only released the button accidentally.


On top of that is lateral AF tracking - the use of multiple AF sensors so that at least one is on target at any time, and the camera knows which one. It helps overcome the effects of a subject moving erratically, or a camera/lens not being held exactly on target by the user.

Lateral AF tracking depends on you having the right focus sensor on the right target at the moment you begin the AF. The right AF sensor is the one you selected for the camera to use, but defaults to the centre one if you activate all 45. It also depends on the expansion range being large enough to cover your wobbles and still have a sensor on target. If you wobble too much then the camera loses the plot and makes its own decision of which AF sensor to use and which target to use.

The 1D2 was the first model to have a second processor dedicated to handling the focus data from all 45 AF sensors at the same time. There was no penalty for using all 45 so long as you kept your aim pretty well. If you let the target slip out of the AF coverage area then giving the camera 45 to choose from was often messier than giving it just a few to choose from.


Starting IS can be a problem for both types of AF tracking because there can be significant IS lens motion and so the subject can appear to be moving even when it is not. Not only is this visible in the viewfinder and perhaps in the photo, but it also affects the image presented to the AF sensors. Allow a full second between starting IS and taking your shots to get the best result. However, starting IS often starts the AF too, but you don't want the AF active if you are not yet on target, so learn to half-press the shutter button to start the IS, then release it while you aim with your stabilsed view and re-press it to activate the AF when you have the chosen AF sensor on target. Be careful that you don't release it for too long or else the IS will stop.

As well as being slow to focus, the 100-400 has the oldest version of IS in the Canon range. It is slow to stabilise initially and not as effective as the better versions while it is working.


- Alan



May 06, 2014 at 03:25 PM
golfnphotog
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Shutterbug2006 wrote:
I used a Mk III and a 100-400 over the weekend to take shots of small, fast moving birds. It was definitely challenging, but I got some really nice shots.

You don't get a focus confirmation beep with AI servo, or it would be beeping all the time, the focus is always shifting if the bird is moving around and you have the shutter half-depressed.

Keeping the shutter speed high enough and the aperture small enough to increase the depth of field to get decent shots requires good light.

This lens needed an AF micro adjustment, which made a tremendous
...Show more


Perhaps a naive question - "....... the focus is always shifting if the bird is moving around and you have the shutter half-depressed" - so do you keep the shutter half pressed/depressed to track the moving bird?
Also if you are shooting in AI-Servo with back-button focus - is the focus locked since you don't use the shutter button.
Thanks



May 06, 2014 at 03:37 PM
Alan321
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


ggreene wrote:
Is it a 1D2 or a 1D2N? I had two 1D2's at one point doing a lot of sports work and I had a brief opportunity to use a 1D2N and I liked it's tracking accuracy better then my 1D2's especially with the ring of fire enabled.

Canon officially said the AF was the same but that was my experience from doing games with it over a week long period.

skibum5 wrote:
interesting, I once had another sports shooter tell me the same thing, he felt his 1D2n did better and got rid of the 1D2, he though they must;ve done some secret improvement under the hood


There were some 1D2 cameras that had really crappy AF reliability that could not be fixed by Canon Service with just one or two attempts - perhaps even something like the 1D3 experience but on a smaller scale. This was affecting pro shooters. Also at that time the 1-series digital market would have been smaller than when the 1D3 was around and I guess the amateur market was much smaller for such expensive cameras. Anyway, it was thought that the 1D2N was a superficial attempt by Canon to put the 1D2 AF problems behind them without generally acknowledging that a problem existed with some of the 1D2s. It worked, and it was the only pro series Canon model to get a mid-life update that even included a model number tweak. Maybe that's why they initially tried blaming the photographers when the 1D3 problems surfaced.

- Alan



May 06, 2014 at 03:40 PM
mark fadely
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Hi Bruce,

I've never seen any in-flight swallow shots ever posted on this forum using the 100-400. I used the 1D MKII and the 1DMKn for quite a while and the results were okay with swallows, but only when using the 400 5.6. I had the 100-400 at the same time but the AF was never up to the challenge for swallows.

The MKIV I use now is only slightly better from a keeper standpoint.

Sometimes trying to take in-flight swallow shots just makes you want to throw all your gear in a lake. So don't get too upset that you are having difficulties. Using a 400 5.6 would give you the best chance of success.



May 06, 2014 at 03:55 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Bsmooth wrote:
I'm struggling a bit with the tracking for my 1DMKII. Yes I am trying to track Swallows, which I know are tuff anyways.
Normally I use center only focus point, but over the weekend I tried Custom Function 17 which uses the AF point expansion. I was using this with my 100-400, and I realize that the AF points won't light up while in AI servo, but even though I had them on I really didn't notice the outer points grabbing any shots of the swallows, matter of fact I had my finger on the shutter button half way down,
...Show more

100-400L is not the lens to track swallows, it's got a fairly slow AF. That's going to be the biggest problem, it's a good but not great BIF lens. You need to try a 400 f/5.6L. This will have far greater benefit than any AF tweaking on the 1D II.



May 06, 2014 at 05:48 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Alan321 wrote:
There were some 1D2 cameras that had really crappy AF reliability that could not be fixed by Canon Service with just one or two attempts - perhaps even something like the 1D3 experience but on a smaller scale. This was affecting pro shooters. Also at that time the 1-series digital market would have been smaller than when the 1D3 was around and I guess the amateur market was much smaller for such expensive cameras. Anyway, it was thought that the 1D2N was a superficial attempt by Canon to put the 1D2 AF problems behind them without generally acknowledging that a
...Show more

interesting, it all fits



May 06, 2014 at 06:45 PM
Bsmooth
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


I'm definately looking into a 400 5.6, but everytime I get fed up with my 100-400, it'll give me a sharp as a tack shot, that tells me I just need better technique.
Lots of info I had never heard here as well, always lots of info to take in !



May 06, 2014 at 07:55 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · AIServo AF tracking on 1DMKII


Bsmooth wrote:
I'm definately looking into a 400 5.6, but everytime I get fed up with my 100-400, it'll give me a sharp as a tack shot, that tells me I just need better technique.
Lots of info I had never heard here as well, always lots of info to take in !


Nothing wrong with the zoom's IQ. I've had mine for about 7 years and 50% of all my shots are taken with it I'd say, but AF response is not in the 400L class. Other than the old clunker IS, it's my only real complaint. I've lost a lot of shots with the 100-400L for BIF taking longer to lock on.



May 06, 2014 at 10:15 PM





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