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Archive 2014 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?

  
 
GRM
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Negative feedback? The hassle one has to go through to get his/her money back? The cost of shipping to send it back? Paid using Paypal gift? The embarrassment of leaving negative feedback to an established member?

It was a guy a couple of weeks ago that purchased a lens for $500 with more scratches than he expected.
He then is trying to sell the same lens fully disclosing the real problems, for $3xx
When I asked him why not file a Paypal claim if he is unhappy with the purchase, he was something like "I don't want to pay the shipping back"
I've seen it many times over the buy and sell forum where people sell items at a loss, only to avoid 'offending' the original seller of the item.

I just purchased 9+ lens. To my surprise the lens has some paint loss spots, which conveniently were left out from the pictures. Right away I filled a dispute and even after two days the seller did not respond to Paypal's inquiry. I sent him pictures of the damaged area and he still can't believe his lens has such damage, damage that can only occur in years and years of usage.
Note to all buyers: NEVER PAY USING PAYPAL GIFT. NEVER. You don't stand a chance with Paypal if you have a problems.



Apr 12, 2014 at 07:09 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Sorry for your problems Rene!
But I just don't get it when members constantantly complain about using Pay Pal Gift.

Fred has put many reminders about this "crash and burn" payment method!
"Tons" of posts by members about members being deceived when problems arrive after buying/selling using PPG.

The only "out" I see is if you used your credit card. Then you may have some recourse.

There is a wise old saying, "Repitition is the mother of learning"!
I would think members would know the dire consequences of using this method! It keeps happening and happening and happening.....!
I NEVER accept PPG and if a buyer/seller can't understand that to save 3%, then I wait or go to the next person.

How many more times are we going to see this happen??
STOP USING PPG unless you are 100% sure of the seller/buyers credibility!!!! And that isn't a given either!

I am truly sorry you and others are having the problem. BUT being afraid to warn others of members about the person doing this, renders a disservice to you, the above mentioned other FM'r and all other members.
If the feedback is incorrect present your case to Fred and the members and they will decide!

I mean no disrespect to you Rene. You are a long established member in good standing here but I and others are really getting frustrated reading constant posts, not just yours, about the downfalls when using PPG.

Good luck in resolving your problem.
Dan



Apr 12, 2014 at 08:26 AM
GRM
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Hi Dan,
You probably misunderstood me. I didn't use Paypal gift and I will never use. It was only a warning to anyone even thinking of using Paypal gift.

First of all, using PPG doesn't give you any chance of recovering your money, not to mention that Paypal gift can only be used if you pay using your bank balance. It is not linked with a credit card.

Second of all, Paypal is a business and we all should respect that. Ebay is not around for charity. They need to make money.

As for my problem with the lens I purchased, I just talked with the seller and everything is fine.



Apr 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Hi Rene!
I didn't misunderstand but miscommunicated your situation. I was reinforcing just what you said abot PPG and just repeating that how many times do members have to post the maladies of using PPG!

Glad you worked out your problems without any further posting. The seller should be grateful that a mutual solution was arrived at!

I PM'd Fred again about posting his years ago warning about members using PPG as a "sticky" on B&S.
Dan



Apr 12, 2014 at 10:24 AM
ronfronberg
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


My understanding is you can use your Credit Card to pay using PayPal Gift but the PayPal fee is added to the buyer using the PayPal Gift option.


Apr 12, 2014 at 11:38 AM
jim allison
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


I think that it would be great if Fred banned the use of PPG as it is against PP rules and leads to many dissatisfied transactions without recourse for the buyer.I think that we would all be better off it simply was not an option.


Apr 13, 2014 at 05:51 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Fred already warns that PayPal gift should not be used. He can't ban it, without implementing a process to detect that it's being used. Like most things, it's buyer beware. If the buyer is not aware of the risks or does it anyway, and gets burned, then that's too bad. Chalk up one more to experience.


Apr 13, 2014 at 06:26 PM
jasonyuen
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


ronfronberg wrote:
My understanding is you can use your Credit Card to pay using PayPal Gift but the PayPal fee is added to the buyer using the PayPal Gift option.


You are correct on this. Paypal charges their 3% fee regardless of what method you use to send payment. They do need to make money off providing the service for the transaction after all. They don't prohibit gift sales as it only decreases the amount of work they need to do should something go sour with the buyer/seller relationship. They do advise against it though. It's not against their policy. If you use the gift method, the 3% is charged to the buyer before the payment is sent. If the non-gift method is chosen, the fee is deducted from the seller's account after the payment. Some people prefer to see their fees instead of adding 3% to a payment they made and seeing no record of it even if it does increase the risk.

Another time PPG would be useful is if you are sending a symbolic amount to someone and want them to see they received payment for that specific amount. Say, you're sending birthday gift money to a loved one turning 18 and want to send them exactly $180 then PPG would be useful.

As a seller, it really does not make a difference. Adding the option for PPG is an additional option for the buyer and gives the buyer more choice of payment. More choice ultimately leads to more sales. I have sold lenses here on FM and received payment via both methods. Some sales via gift method might not have sold without it. I have even made sales where the buyer asked to pay through Interac email transfer or even direct deposit which is probably even higher risk. More payment methods is always better for sales. If a seller demands PPG or makes it the ONLY option then red flags need to be raised.



Apr 14, 2014 at 07:39 AM
mitesh
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


jasonyuen wrote:
You are correct on this. Paypal charges their 3% fee regardless of what method you use to send payment. They do need to make money off providing the service for the transaction after all. They don't prohibit gift sales as it only decreases the amount of work they need to do should something go sour with the buyer/seller relationship. They do advise against it though. It's not against their policy. If you use the gift method, the 3% is charged to the buyer before the payment is sent. If the non-gift method is chosen, the fee is deducted from the
...Show more

You are incorrect about a couple of things in your post, and advocating that "gift" payments are a suitable payment method for commercial transactions is unwise as the practice is not only in violation of Paypal's TOS, but it is also doing a disservice to those who may not know better.



Apr 14, 2014 at 08:49 AM
jasonyuen
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


I don't recall seeing anywhere in the terms of service saying you cannot use the gift option for sales. Would you have a reference for that? I never said gift option is suitable for commercial transactions. I said it is an option available at the buyer's discretion. All I'm saying is I've made sales that otherwise wouldn't have happened if I refused gift, email transfer, or direct deposit. If I had nefarious intentions then yes I could have defrauded the buyer but that is a risk the buyer would have understood prior to making payment. Tainting the "gift" option as an illegitimate means of payment for goods and services because someone is uninformed is unfair to the service itself. It is an available method regardless of whether it's suitable or not. That is entirely up to the buyer to decide.

Paypal does have a guideline on payment types as shown here:
https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/article/?articleID=FAQ638&m=SRE



Apr 14, 2014 at 09:05 AM
mitesh
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Just because you "can" use personal payments for purchases/sales (commercial transactions), doesn't make it right.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#4

Personal payment method is meant to be just that- a convenient and inexpensive way to transfer money between individuals. The example you gave of giving a monetary gift is spot on. Transferring money between people who are engaged in commerce is not a personal payment. Your argument that it is fine to use because it is available is just rationalization. Paypal asks you whether the transaction is personal or for goods and services. If you choose to be dishonest, then that's your choice. Don't make it sound like it is okay because Paypal gives you the choice.

As for your argument that you wouldn't have made the sales without Paypal gift, if you had simply covered the fee as a seller, then the buyer probably wouldn't have had any issue using standard Paypal for your sales.




Apr 14, 2014 at 11:01 AM
jasonyuen
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Yes, the link you posted is to the terms of service, but still there is nothing in there that restricts the gift option. Personal payment vs commercial payment incurs the same fees. It's 3% anyway you slice it. It's not particularly cheaper. Paypal can ask you anything and you do not need to answer them. They are not a government regulated bank. They are a private business asking you for information that you really do not need to provide. It's not being dishonest. Some people choose not to divulge information to entities that have no business knowing. Not having anything to hide is not reason enough to have your privacy violated. Whether you exercise that right or not is up to you. Using paypal gift is no different than paying with cash or cheque. The only difference is in the extra service Paypal provides should there be a dispute between the sender and receiver.

Paypal fees are not strictly the responsibility of the seller or the buyer. It is determined by whoever is willing to cover it. You can't say it's the responsibility of anyone because it is not. I think you are still misunderstanding the gift option. The 3% is charged on the buyer either way. Either through paypal before transfer (using the gift method) or after the transfer (goods & services method) through the seller account. Usually the seller will pass that fee onto the buyer through "net to me" statements. There is no question on the dollar amount the buyer is paying. He or she knows it will cost them an additional 3% and is agreed on. It is a payment option they choose to exercise.

The gift option does have its benefit in the commercial aspect as it simplifies things for sellers and gives the buyer a record of fees. The seller benefits by not needing to deal with cost of shipping (if buyer arranges their own shipping method), customs taxes, fees, etc. The seller wants $100 for something and that's all they care about. As such, all fees are prepaid by the buyer and they agree to that. The fees are deducted from the buyer's account and are clearly shown. Something desirable in accounting as it separates expenses from costs and has a record in which one can look up.



Apr 14, 2014 at 12:04 PM
mitesh
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Well it seems that there isn't any point in discussing it any further as you have already rationalized your view to make it suit your purposes, while ignoring what most would see as the reality.


Apr 14, 2014 at 01:09 PM
jasonyuen
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Don't get me wrong. I personally wouldn't use the gift option. I'd rather go the commercial option, but as a seller when a buyer requests to use the gift option because they specifically want to see the fees, there is no reason to decline it. There's no purpose to suit other than to give the buyer more options. As a seller, there is no detriment to you. You are getting paid the same amount either way. As a buyer, you weigh the 2 benefits and decide what's in your interest. Trusting Paypal and having the option of a Paypal arbitrator judging who's right and who's wrong should there be a dispute, or having a record of fees. Neither is more right than the other. It's suitable for whatever one values.


Apr 14, 2014 at 01:17 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


ReneMurea wrote:
Negative feedback? The hassle one has to go through to get his/her money back? The cost of shipping to send it back? Paid using Paypal gift? The embarrassment of leaving negative feedback to an established member?

It was a guy a couple of weeks ago that purchased a lens for $500 with more scratches than he expected.
He then is trying to sell the same lens fully disclosing the real problems, for $3xx
When I asked him why not file a Paypal claim if he is unhappy with the purchase, he was something like "I don't want to pay the shipping back"
I've
...Show more


Sometimes they figure the problem wasn't really of the sort to file a claim over or ask for a return or maybe they thought they'd be fine, but in the end decided to be ultra picky and don't want to take that out on the seller.

If it's anything serious I don't think people are afraid at all.

But why do you instantly file a claim for anything not exactly as you wished? Shouldn't you contact them first and ask for a return or something Normally you do that instead of slamming someone instantly. I mean if they ship you a rock instead of a camera or something is WAY the heck absurdly off then yeah, you need to act fast, but otherwise....



Apr 15, 2014 at 02:05 PM
GRM
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


skibum5 wrote:
Sometimes they figure the problem wasn't really of the sort to file a claim over or ask for a return or maybe they thought they'd be fine, but in the end decided to be ultra picky and don't want to take that out on the seller.

If it's anything serious I don't think people are afraid at all.

But why do you instantly file a claim for anything not exactly as you wished? Shouldn't you contact them first and ask for a return or something Normally you do that instead of slamming someone instantly. I mean if they ship you a rock
...Show more


I was burned once. By the time I filled a claim the seller closed his account.
Another time I received a scratched camera. Wrote the seller and told him I'm not happy with the condition. He was like "The price was low, why are you complaining!" Filled a claim and got my money back. I'm sure the seller had no intention of taking back the camera.



Apr 15, 2014 at 08:54 PM
obaceman
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


I bought something here, first purchase, and seller offered two Paypal options "regular" and "PPG", I really did not give it much thought as I paid by "PPG" until after I did it, what if? Fortunately it turned out OK. Would not do it again 3 percent is cheap insurance.


Apr 19, 2014 at 08:50 AM
Photo4Less
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Recently just bought a tripod ball head. Prior to payment I had asked in detail if there were scratches, dings or paint chippings. Seller responds that it's brand NEW. Considering his feedback and 10 yr. membership I went ahead and bought it.

A week later and I received it, opened it up and it was poorly package. It was shipped in a USPS medium flat rate box of that sort with only a thin plastic layer partially wrapped around. The ball head is the size of my fist, was there clearly not another option for the seller to box it up yet just simply stuffed it with newspaper. I guess NOT? I didn't even want to imagine the whole trip it had being thrown left to right, up and down. SMH!

After analyzing the ball head my inspection clearly wasn't misunderstood that it was USED. The tripod set screws shows under the ball head that it was mounted and tighten on a couple occasions. In addition to that the camera plate also definitely show signs of wear, no paint chips but definitely paint fading from what I speculate a camera body being shortly on and off the ball head.

Automatically I contacted the seller, sent him photos of the matter and expressed my issue with an explanation. He replies a week later and acknowledges the wear and set screws as shown but denies my offer of a partial refund to settle the resolution and says, "I'm being too picky." With that said I just left the seller a message prior to this comment that since option "A" was denied option "B" is a full refund and we part ways.

I have yet to hear back from him in our next PM but I have to ask, when a seller says it's brand new and you buy from him/her I agree 100% of us would 100% agree that it should be 100% brand NEW upon receiving, correct? NOT marked up, dings, scratched or any of that for that matter, right?

Well, Thankfully this item was paid through PPG. Yes, you read that right, PayPal "GOODS." If the seller won't maturely resolve this I'm covered because PayPal's cheap 3% insurance well help recover the unsatisfied transaction not as described.






Apr 21, 2014 at 01:44 AM
prosumerhacks
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


Photo4Less, care to name the "seller"?!


May 03, 2014 at 06:42 PM
Tekniqs
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Why are people afraid to file a Paypal claim?


I've filed a few paypal claims in the past. But that's because the seller either didn't ship my items or they weren't as described in their ads. it's pretty painless actually. Might take a few weeks to have everything sorted but it definitely works.


May 06, 2014 at 07:50 PM
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