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Archive 2014 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?

  
 
Ruem78
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


I'm curious is there any difference if you use the real ND filter, or Lightroom gradient filter while post processing?
Does the physical filter give you any advantages? I'm not speaking about so called "Big Stoppers"... because it's no way to do the same effect...



Apr 10, 2014 at 10:05 AM
MajeedB
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Do as much correctly in camera as possible. That means using a graduated ND filter where needed. Not only does this cut down on the number of images needed to capture a scene, but often times a graduated ND can bring more drama to skies.

There's only so much dynamic range in a RAW file. It's best practice to do as much in camera as possible.



Apr 10, 2014 at 10:21 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


(moderators may want to move this to another forum, and I'll gladly continue the conversation there.)

There are actually at least three options, one of which you did not mention—though the third one is easier to use in Photoshop than in Lightroom. (I'm a Photoshop guy, so someone else will have to explain how the "other" method could work in Lightroom.)

Between the two you mention:

Gradiated/gradient/graduated neutral density (GND) filters: In film photography this was pretty much the only effective way to deal with extremely wide dynamic range scenes in which a single exposure would leave you with blown highlights, blocked shadows, or both. It works well for subjects in which the division between light and dark areas is relatively linear—such as the horizon—and less well for subjects where that is not the case. In the latter there are some complicated ways to make things better by using more than one GND and/or by manually moving the filter during exposure.

Gradient filters in Lightroom, ACR, and other software: If the dynamic range of the original scene was extremely large, while you might make things better with this software adjustment, you are still working with the data of the actual capture, and truly blown out digital capture of highlights is not really recoverable in post and you can run into noise and banding issues if you try to use the software to recover (or create?) detail from areas that are all black or nearly black. On the other hand, the gradient filter can work very, very well for less extreme exposure balance issues and is really no different that other masking-related techniques (dodging/burning, curves adjustments, etc.) that are almost always applied in post.

Exposure blending is the technique that you did not mention. For scenes with extreme dynamic contrasts I prefer (YMMV) this approach over the other two in almost all of my photography. The idea is to capture more than one exposure of the scene, varying the shutter speed (not the aperture!) to get a range of exposures that are optimized for different areas of the subject. In the simplest form you might make one exposure optimized for shadow detail (and allow the highlights to blow out) and a second optimized for highlight details (allowing the shadow areas to go all the way to black). Then you align/layer the images in your post-production software and take the best portions of each. Most often this is done by creating masked adjustment layers. I won't go into all the details here, but this can be very effective. (By the way, this is not the same process as what is often called HDR.) The following is a photograph made this way, from three exposures that were exposure-bracketed and focus bracketed.

http://gdanmitchell.com/gallery/d/3300-2/SabrinaBasinLupinePeaks20090807.jpg

Advantages of this approach include:

1. No need to carry additional filters in the field.

2. The exposure difference between the light and dark areas can be anything, rather than being limited to the stop difference—.5 stops, 5 stops, etc

3. The boundaries between areas of various brightness are completely fluid rather than being limited to straight lines.

4. Partial blends of both layers are possible in any area of the image by means of controlling opacity.

5. You can reconsider the blending at any time in post.

6. etc.

Issues that you have to deal with—and there are effective ways to do so—including things like possible motion of the subject between exposures, the need to keep the camera position the same, and so on.

HDR: This is also, of course, the option of using the multiple exposure approach in conjunction with software-based methods of constructing a composite image based on algorithms that analyze the image and attempt to combine the light parts into a whole.

Dan

Edited on Apr 10, 2014 at 11:23 AM · View previous versions



Apr 10, 2014 at 11:18 AM
Jeffrey
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


There is a post processing forum on this site.


Apr 10, 2014 at 11:20 AM
richardfromla
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


I carry a full range of Singh-Ray grads and reverse grads with me and always try to do as much in camera a possible. I don't believe dropping a grad in in LR will be able to capture what a real grad in the field does. However, blending multiple exposures seems to be the coming thing and certainly means less gear to carry. And sometimes, the horizon is so difficult that you can't get a grad evenly displayed.


Apr 10, 2014 at 11:51 AM
kylebarendrick
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


I carry a soft 2-stop ND grad and use it regularly. Between the soft transition, the relatively light (2-stop) darkening and the fact that I usually hand hold keeps the transition subtle. I will usually also use the shadows/highlights sliders in LR along with the digital grads in LR to further balance the dynamic range.

Overall I like to use the physical grad to keep the shot within the DR of the camera so I can process in one file. This helps me ensure I can get a workable shot without subject movement between frames, excess noise in the shadows, or blending artifacts. The 2-stop grad tends to be just enough for me to take it the rest of the way in LR. In high contrast situations I will also take some alternate exposures so I can blend if I want to.



Apr 10, 2014 at 06:42 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


kylebarendrick wrote:
This helps me ensure I can get a workable shot without subject movement between frames, excess noise in the shadows, or blending artifacts.


Exposure blending does not add noise. With practice, "blending artifacts" are not an issue. (GND "blending artifacts" seem at least as visible to me and often more visible.)

Subject movement may be an issue, but it is much less of a problem than most people imagine. For example, let's say there is a tree in the scene. You might naturally be concerned about the moving leaves. But unless you are blending the tree (is it the part of the scene with the DR issue?) you won't encounter a problem there. The same things is often true with water. Clouds can be more difficult if they are moving a lot and you have to blend them.... but, again, you are likely to use clouds from a single blend layer.

Take care,

Dan



Apr 10, 2014 at 08:52 PM
OccAeon
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Lightroom can't help you when you are shooting f/1.4 in the sun :-)

Other than that circumstance (& my big stopper), I don't use ND or graduated ND filters. It's too much to carry around, and I've never figured out how to use a graduated ND in such a way that you don't end up with black tips on trees that overlap the horizon. I usually just expose for the sky and then pull up the rest in Lightroom, and live with the bit of noise. Or, rarely, I'll do (or attempt) an HDR shot.



Apr 10, 2014 at 10:26 PM
kylebarendrick
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Dan - I agree exposure blending does not add noise. Pushing the shadows to balance the lighting of a single exposure in LR can. Using my GND gives me another 2 stops of light on the shadows. That's all I meant.

I'm getting better at blending exposures but I have a really low tolerance for halos. We all have different pet peeves. I just like to have a RAW file that gives me a chance to finish the photo without blending. I may still blend anyway.



Apr 11, 2014 at 11:05 AM
Bifurcator
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Ruem78 wrote:
I'm curious is there any difference if you use the real ND filter, or Lightroom gradient filter while post processing?
Does the physical filter give you any advantages? I'm not speaking about so called "Big Stoppers"... because it's no way to do the same effect...


IMO, it's a totally different thing. ND filters are used when you need to alter the exposure time or aperture setting for a given scene. You can kinda do that when processing (using a considerable amount of planning) a photo file but you're limited by DR and that's not a lot of latitude on most cameras. With physical filters there's no such limitations. You run into the same troubles with GND filters as well.

When I see GND photos which I think are "awesome" they have always turned out to have been created using physical filters. So that might be a hint - I dunno. One photographer here who creates really awesome GND ocean sunsets and sunrises says that he used to try to accomplish the effect digitally but after moving to physical filters realized it (digital) was a huge inconvenience and generally inferior.



Apr 11, 2014 at 02:09 PM
Ruem78
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


OccAeon wrote:
Lightroom can't help you when you are shooting f/1.4 in the sun :-)

Other than that circumstance (& my big stopper), I don't use ND or graduated ND filters. It's too much to carry around, and I've never figured out how to use a graduated ND in such a way that you don't end up with black tips on trees that overlap the horizon. I usually just expose for the sky and then pull up the rest in Lightroom, and live with the bit of noise. Or, rarely, I'll do (or attempt) an HDR shot.


And what brand of Big stopper do you use?



Apr 12, 2014 at 07:54 AM
howardm4
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


'Big Stopper' is a product of Lee Filters. They seem to be out of stock on a regular basis


Apr 12, 2014 at 08:38 AM
Mirek Elsner
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Ruem78 wrote:
I'm curious is there any difference if you use the real ND filter, or Lightroom gradient filter while post processing?
Does the physical filter give you any advantages? I'm not speaking about so called "Big Stoppers"... because it's no way to do the same effect...


One big difference is that the effect of (graduated) ND filter can't be easily undone.



Apr 13, 2014 at 12:43 AM
Ruem78
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Mirek Elsner wrote:
One big difference is that the effect of (graduated) ND filter can't be easily undone.


That's 100% true, and one of my biggest worries about using graduate ND....
But the Big Stopper is one of the top priorities in my wish list )) Yesterday I was missing it a lot while taking pictures outdoors... Stones in a mountain river, and stones at the sea shore..... Yeah.... Big deal for the big stopper ))



Apr 13, 2014 at 08:23 AM
John Wheeler
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


+1 (and more) on gdanmitchell's posts. Thanks


Apr 13, 2014 at 08:47 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Here is how I blend three images that were exposed for shadow, neutral and highlights. It also works with one image that was processed at three different exposure levels in ACR.

This does not require masks, although I often use one on the brightest layer or a gradient mask.

I never need to align my image because my tripod and shooting style produces no shake, but if there is subject motion the gausian blur step often hides it.

This process has a lot in common with the multiple exposure method Gdans explained in another post using gausian blure. Although this one does not use overlay and does use a much higher radius.

http://ben-egbert-photo.com/?page_id=144



Apr 13, 2014 at 09:14 AM
Doctor Atomo
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · ND Filter or Lightroom ?


Thanks for the link to your tutorial, Ben



Apr 17, 2014 at 01:44 AM





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