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Archive 2014 · Variability in FPS

msalvetti
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Variability in FPS

If fps does slow in AI Servo, I have to think there is some other setting you need to change, or something is broken. I shot may thousands of frames with a 40D, and definitely did not see such a pronounced drop off in fps.

If it slows, I think your next step should be to reset all the custom functions. Heck, just reset the entire camera with both batteries out.

Mark

Apr 12, 2014 at 07:18 PM

philshoots
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Variability in FPS

Not sure what f stop you're shooting but I tested my 1Dx/400 2.8 combo and the frame rate will slow the more you stop down. Wide open I can get 12fps raw but if you stop down to 4 or 5.6 it will drop as low as 9/8fps. I tested it with a CPS rep even he was surprised. The elect shutter has to open and close the app every frame- the advertised frame rate is for shooting wide open only - not something they publicise well. If I want to shoot sports/wildlife @ 5.6-11 I'll use Nikon or Leica glass and the body will deliver 12fps no problem. Like someone else posted shoot a digital watch and check it yourself at different stops.

Phil

Apr 12, 2014 at 08:20 PM

willis
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Variability in FPS

For maximum burst rate in servo AF keep your shutter speed up (1/500s or more if possible), use a lens that AFs quickly (any L series tele beyond 100mm should be ok), shoot wide open (but stopping down shouldnt make much difference if high ss is still achieveable), disable as much in-camera processing as possible - if you're shooting jpeg turn off high ISO NR, ALO, HTP, lens corrections etc. Set the focus limiter appropriately if the lens has one.
The shots you posted have a contrasty background which may be the problem-if the camera starts to lose the subject, re-acquiring AF will take a lot longer than just tracking subject movement and may slow down the frame rate.
Light levels don't seem to be your issue and subject contrast seems high enough.
Letting the camera select the AF point can speed frame rate but rarely produces more keepers particularly with a contrasty background.

Apr 13, 2014 at 03:10 AM

Monito
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Variability in FPS

I would guess that turning off IS on the lens would also help keep the frame rate high.

Apr 13, 2014 at 05:59 AM

philshoots
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Variability in FPS

@ Willis - stoping down will change the fps - think about it, wide open the body just blazes away as soon as you stop down it has to open and close the aperture every frame. I asked CPS if there was anyway to override this but apparently there isn't- with alt glass no fps change. Shoot a watch wo then stop down to 8 tell me what happens to the fps.

Phil

Edited on Apr 14, 2014 at 07:39 PM · View previous versions

Apr 13, 2014 at 06:41 AM

skibum5
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Variability in FPS

volyrat wrote:
Thanks to all for their input on this. Just got home and tested a couple of things:

I can get 5 FPS (almost exactly) when not using AI-Servo focus, as long as the shutter speed is above 1/250.

Long exposure NR was off, so that wasn't impacting.

It doesn't matter if I have IS on or off on the lens used.

I'll try to test something moving tomorrow to see if the Servo focus is the element slowing the shutter speed down.

what lens are you using?

on a few bodies, my tamron 28-75 2.8, for whatever reason, made fps drop a ton when I used AI Servo even when using other lenses it barely dropped at all

Apr 13, 2014 at 12:34 PM

msalvetti
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Variability in FPS

OK, just tried a rough test with stopping down. I held the shutter button down for 3 seconds and counted frames.

1DMkIV, jpg, ISO400, 1/640:

Canon 100-400
f/4.5 (wide open): about 10 fps
f/11: about 8 fps

Canon 70-200II
f/2.8: about 10 fps
f/11: about 10 fps

7D, ISO400, 1/640:

Both lenses were the same:
Wide Open (f/2.8 and f/4.5): about 7-8 fps
f/11: also about 7-8 fps

This makes some sense. If the camera has trouble opening and closing the lens diaphragm fast enough, it should be most apparent at higher fps. Looks like the 100-400 can't shoot much faster than 8 fps at higher f-stops. But the 70-200II doesn't have this issue.

Since Bob (volyrat) mentions that he has tried IS on and off, based on his profile he's using L's (70-200 f/4 and a 300 f/4). I can't imagine that stopping down would slow the 60D all the way down to 3 fps. Since it maxes out at 6 fps, stopping down probably won't slow it at all.

Mark

Apr 13, 2014 at 12:50 PM

volyrat
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Variability in FPS

Shooting a 300 f/4 IS - the pics shown had a 1.4 TC on them. But I've reviewed other bursts with just the bare lens at f/4 - same thing in Servo.

Thanks.

philshoots wrote:
Not sure what f stop you're shooting but I tested my 1Dx/400 2.8 combo and the frame rate will slow the more you stop down. Wide open I can get 12fps raw but if you stop down to 4 or 5.6 it will drop as low as 9/8fps. I tested it with a CPS rep even he was surprised. The elect shutter has to open and close the app every frame- the advertised frame rate is for shooting wide open only - not something they publicise well. If I want to shoot sports/wildlife @ 5.6-11 I'll use Nikon or Leica...Show more →

Apr 13, 2014 at 03:22 PM

volyrat
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Variability in FPS

I have bursts with the same behavior at SS's > 1/2500. Shooting with a 300 f/4 IS, IS on (with plenty of time to engage IS - I know it takes a while to spin up), at f/4. High ISO NR is off. I don't know what the other settings are, but all custom functions are off.

I'll keep trying. thanks for the input.

willis wrote:
For maximum burst rate in servo AF keep your shutter speed up (1/500s or more if possible), use a lens that AFs quickly (any L series tele beyond 100mm should be ok), shoot wide open (but stopping down shouldnt make much difference if high ss is still achieveable), disable as much in-camera processing as possible - if you're shooting jpeg turn off high ISO NR, ALO, HTP, lens corrections etc. Set the focus limiter appropriately if the lens has one.
The shots you posted have a contrasty background which may be the problem-if the camera starts to lose the subject, re-acquiring...Show more →

Apr 13, 2014 at 03:26 PM

volyrat
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Variability in FPS

I used the 300 f/4 IS - same lens as used in the example in the OP.

thanks.

skibum5 wrote:
what lens are you using?

on a few bodies, my tamron 28-75 2.8, for whatever reason, made fps drop a ton when I used AI Servo even when using other lenses it barely dropped at all

Apr 13, 2014 at 03:28 PM

volyrat
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Variability in FPS

Thanks Mark.

Interesting results - that the 100-400 degrades but the 70-200 doesn't. I'll have to try my 70-200 f4 IS next time, although it isn't that functional for field sports.

Sounds like a reason to get a 1d and a 300 2.8 to me...

msalvetti wrote:
OK, just tried a rough test with stopping down. I held the shutter button down for 3 seconds and counted frames.

1DMkIV, jpg, ISO400, 1/640:

Canon 100-400
f/4.5 (wide open): about 10 fps
f/11: about 8 fps

Canon 70-200II
f/2.8: about 10 fps
f/11: about 10 fps

7D, ISO400, 1/640:

Both lenses were the same:
Wide Open (f/2.8 and f/4.5): about 7-8 fps
f/11: also about 7-8 fps

This makes some sense. If the camera has trouble opening and closing the lens diaphragm fast enough, it should be most apparent at higher fps. Looks like the 100-400 can't shoot much faster than 8 fps at higher f-stops. But the 70-200II doesn't have...Show more →

Apr 13, 2014 at 03:31 PM

philshoots
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Variability in FPS

Glad you tested the fps change stopping down. Interesting results with your lenses. With the variation of production runs in still photo lenses it wouldn't surprise me if there were differences of fps between the same lens as well. @ shutter speeds of 10-12 fps for the newest slr's we are basically shooting slow cine cameras in full wack. For high speed shooting it's a pity both canon and nikon went to fully electronic shutter loosing the ap ring. With a manual ap ring and a body override we could shoot native glass @ 5.6-11 and get the high speed claims they market not to mention internal aperture blade wear if you wish to shoot hs at anything other than wo. The 1dx is a pro body after all with a 6k price tag and big whites 12k. The option should be there.
For still work @ the highest fps, the difference between 8 or 12 fps can mean getting it or missing it. When shooting the dx if the subject is super fast it's most likely manual focus anyway, so stopping down with alt glass gets the job done. As a cinematographer I'm used to shooting in stop down mode, wink wink.

Glad your getting to the bottom of your fps variation issues and hopefully to what will work for you. Perhaps there a problem with the body. One things for sure stopping down will slow high speed frame rates and there's variation between lens combos. We all shoot very differently with varied gear, best to test. The stopwatch mode of my wristwatch works great.
Cheers
Phil
msalvetti wrote:
OK, just tried a rough test with stopping down. I held the shutter button down for 3 seconds and counted frames.

1DMkIV, jpg, ISO400, 1/640:

Canon 100-400
f/4.5 (wide open): about 10 fps
f/11: about 8 fps

Canon 70-200II
f/2.8: about 10 fps
f/11: about 10 fps

7D, ISO400, 1/640:

Both lenses were the same:
Wide Open (f/2.8 and f/4.5): about 7-8 fps
f/11: also about 7-8 fps

This makes some sense. If the camera has trouble opening and closing the lens diaphragm fast enough, it should be most apparent at higher fps. Looks like the 100-400 can't shoot much faster than 8 fps at higher f-stops. But the 70-200II doesn't have...Show more →

Edited on Apr 15, 2014 at 12:46 AM · View previous versions

Apr 14, 2014 at 02:08 AM

skibum5
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Variability in FPS

if the AF in a lens is very slow or it has certain odd/slow algorithms then it can slow fps in AI Servo (shooting my tamron 28-57 2.8 AT 2.8 on some bodies would dramatically slow AI servo compared to shooting with most other lenses, for one)

i wouldn't think a bare 300 f/4 IS L would a lens that would choke like that though.... so it's still all pretty puzzling

an interesting test would be to find out if other 60D users get the same result
if so, then I guess Canon just went for (hopefully) more keepers in terms of AF vs. fps with the 60D (but man going to 3fps for AI Servo, quite a sneaky little surprise i'm sure)

Apr 14, 2014 at 01:20 PM

Bob the Medic
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Variability in FPS

Thanks everyone. Another FM member led me to this thread. I have been having this exact problem with a 1D mark IV and the
300mm f/4 IS shooting my sons' travel soccer. Was driving me nuts. But no slow down using 7D mark II. Great thread. Very helpful and makes sense.

Apr 19, 2015 at 09:21 PM

Bob the Medic
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Variability in FPS

Apr 19, 2015 at 09:21 PM

Mike Sowsun
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Variability in FPS

Here is a poster in POTN that has the same problem with an EF 300mm f4 IS

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=17510440

Apr 20, 2015 at 10:28 AM

OntheRez
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Variability in FPS

I don't have a 50D so can't comment specifically on that camera's abilities. Having shot with 1DII thru 1Dx, I can categorically agree with multiple comments noting that actual (as opposed to theoretical) FPS is hugely influenced by many real world factors including: AF method, aperture, type of lens, available light, complexity of subject, and even ISO.

I shot base/softball last year with a 300mm f/4.0L non-IS and a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II. The 300 was just barely slower than the 70-200. This year I purchased the 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II so I could reach center field. I'd say categorically the 70-200 comes much closer to the rated FPS than the 100-400 does. In fact I am mildly disappointed in the 100-400's AF. My guess is that very few Canon lenses acquire focus faster than the 70-200 f/2.8. (Note, I know nothing of the "big whites" capabilities. Don't live in that stratosphere

Robert

Apr 20, 2015 at 10:54 AM

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