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Archive 2014 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?

  
 
Sener
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Hello,

Here in my town I can find used 5Dc's here for around $400-450. I am mainly a Nikon shooter, but sometimes I come across certain manual lenses (mainly f/1.2 lenses around 50mm FL) which I'd like to try. But as already known, many manual lenses impossible to use properly on Nikon bodies. I don't like NEX or m43 system for manual focusing either, and I'd like to try these optics on a FF sensor. The A7(r) are no-go either, they didn't convince me enough to downsize my D700 yet.

So I thought a 5Dc with its low price might give me the opportunity. I know it's very old tech but I intend to try it just for kicks. What I wonder is... how's the viewfinder for manual focusing? Is it sufficient? Can it be enlarged, or replaced with a better focusing screen?

And how is the image quality? Will it do well with vintage lenses? Since it's a FF sensor and has low pixel density, I think it should do well but... many a year have passed

And also, any chronic issues I need to be aware of when buying it?

Any information and recommendations are appreciated. Thank you



Apr 08, 2014 at 04:54 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Hi,

The 5D was very successful as a base for "Alternative" manual focus lenses. Speaking of 'Alt', the Alternative forum is the best place to find out about this type of thing. The FAQ sticky at the top of teh Alt forum list of threads is a great place to start, although it's pretty big.

Atl FAQ, https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1009663

Here's some other more "focused" threads that would be of interest, too.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1244800
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1240653
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1151925/0&year=2012#10991836
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1142102/0&year=2012#10897723
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1109277/0&year=2012#10588927
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1060478/0&year=2011#10080635

Here's my list of favourite links, aome of which are annotated and grouped,

General info on using alternatives

Bob Atkins http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/eosfaq/manual_focus_EOS.html
NK Guy http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses
Markerink mounts and registers http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/mounts.htm
Oleson's lens mounts http://members.tripod.com/rick_oleson/index-99.html
Harold Merklinger's The INs and OUTs of Focus http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/#TIAOOF

Brand-specific info

[leverectomy effect on price = nada] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1207193/1#11508363

Pentax to EOS alt lens questions, https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/718836/0&year=2008#6498441
Altering Pentax K Mount to Canon Eos 5D https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/574010
Pentax aperture leverectomy https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/937895/0#8881087
M42 telephoto http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00J01o&tag=
Pentax K and M42 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ExzY

5D Contax adapter http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00LgIJ
5D and Zeiss lenses https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/499803
Non-CPU lenses on 5D https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/469342
Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/401854/3#lastmessage
Nikon to EOS http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JBXb

Contax Canon compatibility database http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Contax_db.html
Canon Leica-R Compatibility database http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Leica_db.html
16-9.net 5D compatibility http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/compatible.html
Zeiss/Oly 5D compatibility https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/306575
M42 5D compatibility http://www.panoramaplanet.de/comp/

Pentax K-mount lenses

Bojidar Dimitrov's Pentax K-mount site: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/
Stan's Pentax Photography Site: http://stans-photography.info/
Yoshihiko Takinami's Pentax lens tests: http://www.takinami.com/yoshihiko/photo/
Adam and Ole Oest, Pentax K-Mount Lens Series Explained http://www.mosphotos.com/PentaxLensesExplained.html

Pentax M42 screw mount lenses

Asahi Optical Historical Club (AOHC): http://www.aohc.it/indexe.htm
Pentax M42 Lens pics: http://www.gate.net/%7Ehifisapi/lens1.htm
Praktica-Users.com: http://www.praktica-users.com/lens/mlenses.html
Roland Stauber M42 Lenses: http://freenet-homepage.de/stauber/mamiya-nc/m42_lenses.htm
www.m-fortytwo.info: http://www.m-fortytwo.info/

Also, you can check current prices for many of "the usual suspects" at my Lens Price Database,

Lens Price Database, Lens$db, http://tinyurl.com/jcolwell-lensdb

Welcome to the club.

Cheers,
Jim



Apr 08, 2014 at 05:11 PM
BeyondBoudoirP
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


A lot of photographers used the 5D Classic successfully for manual focus. This may have been encouraged by the poor autofocus performance. I was always very frustrated with the copy I had and made serious efforts to explore manual focus, which I had used for decades with film cameras.

I tried Canon's alternate focusing screen. I think it is called Ee or something like that. Did not find it at all useful.

I then spent well around $200 to buy a third party screen with a split image center an microprism surround. This appeared to work well, but the actual focus point did not coincide with the apparent focus point. Perhaps if the 5DC had some form of micro focus adjustment I could have corrected this, but it didn't.

I gave up on manual focus with the 5DC and learned to avoid shooting wider than about f/2.8 to cover the focus errors.

When I got my 5D3, my world was changed by the vastly more accurate autofocus and my desire to try manual focus ended completely.

I loved the sensor in the 5DC, but the autofocus on my copy really sucked.

http://www.beyondboudoirphoto.com

Portland, Oregon, USA



Apr 09, 2014 at 08:41 AM
PeaktoPeek
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


At one point I had more than a dozen vintage MF lenses that I shot with my 5Dc and for the most part, it was fairly easy to shoot with. Its liberating at times to toss out all the big AF zooms and just shoot with a few small MF primes. The 12 mp sensor was just perfect for vintage lenses with its fat pixels, image quality was great with most of the lenses I shot. My favorites in no particular order -- Contax 35-70, 1.7/50mm, 2.8/28mm, Minolta 1.2/58mm, OM Zuiko 2.8/24mm, 1.4/50mm, Pentax SMC Tak 3.5/135mm , Nikon 2.5/105 Ais, and Tammy Adaptall 2 SP 2.5/90mm Macro.
Paul



Apr 09, 2014 at 09:47 AM
15Bit
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Well i reckon Jim probably covered pretty much everything there....

I use a 5Dc for manual focus lenses, though currently only canon-mount ones so i can't comment on adapters etc. I find focusing is pretty easy with the EE-S screen fitted, though i have good eyesight (no glasses yet). The ease of focusing does depend somewhat on the lens though - i find my Samyang 85mm f/1.4 much harder to focus than my Voigtlander 90mm f/3.5 for instance.

One thing you should probably consider is that the focus screens are not well calibrated with respect to focus distance. I bought some metal spacer shims to calibrate my EE-S.




Apr 09, 2014 at 10:03 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Sener wrote:
What I wonder is... how's the viewfinder for manual focusing? Is it sufficient? Can it be enlarged, or replaced with a better focusing screen?


The viewfinder is merely OK. It is better than cropped sensor cameras of that vintage, but it is—as is typical of such cameras from that time—perhaps less bright than the best of the older film cameras. You can replace the focusing screen if you want to, and some of the options are optimized for manual focus, especially with large aperture lenses.

About manual focusing such camera... Many years ago I shot with a string of film SLR cameras that had things like split prism and similar focusing aids in the viewfinder. These worked pretty well and much better than simply trying to eyeball focus on the ground "glass." The newer DSLRs generally are not optimized for manual focus in this way, and manually focusing them on ground glass is not as accurate nor as quick. These cameras are actually optimized for auto-focus.

If your interest is hand held photography—for example, street photography or similar—I feel that AF is often a better option. It will be more accurate than your manual focusing and it will be a lot faster. I have shot everything from DSLRs to film SLRs to film rangefinder cameras, so I'm familiar with AF'ing for lots of subjects (sports, anyone?) but I almost always use AF for quick work such as street photography.

For tripod based work—e.g. landscape, architecture, etc—manual focus can work better if you are careful and patient. But here, too, AF may be a better option on the 5D. With newer cameras with live view I feel a lot more positive about the option of manually focusing for work from the tripod—in fact, that's my most common mode of shooting.

And how is the image quality? Will it do well with vintage lenses? Since it's a FF sensor and has low pixel density, I think it should do well but... many a year have passed

Given the 12MP sensor (lots of pixels by the standards of when it was released, but not so many by today's standards) it is quite nice. There is no question that it can produce excellent image quality of subjects that are amenable to its capabilities in other areas.

I did not use vintage lenses on mine, but I shot with a range of lenses from good basic EF primes up through various L primes and zooms. (I no longer have the camera. A month ago I gave it to one of my sons... ;-)

And also, any chronic issues I need to be aware of when buying it?

There are a few.

1. There was a "service note" for a problem with the flip-up mirror on this camera. As I understand it, the glue attaching it to the underlying frame was not reliable and the mirror could eventually detach. Canon send out the note and will repair the problem for free if the owner ships the camera to them. You should check to see if this work has been done. If yes, you are good to go. If no, the price of the camera should be even lower since you will have to do the extra work of sending it off to Canon yourself.

2. The camera has a reputation for getting a lot of dust on the sensor, and that corresponds to my experience over a nine-year period with my 5D. It has no dust reduction/removal system (newer cameras like the 5DII and so forth do) so you are likely to have to deal with this yourself, and deal with it frequently. I became expert at sensor cleaning when the 5D was my primary camera. I used a range of techniques including the blower, static-charged sensor brushes, wet cleaning, and more. Fortunately, there is a product that makes this a whole lot less cumbersome. A few weeks ago I picked up a product that was new to me that works really, really well and it very quick and easy. I don't have it in front of me right now so I can't tell you the name. (Perhaps something along the lines of "sensor gel stick?") It is a plastic "wand" with a small cube of slightly sticky gel material at the end. You place this against the sensor glass and it collects the dust.

3. Obviously (I hope!) the camera lacks some features of newer cameras that might be important to you. No video. No live view. etc.

Dan




Apr 09, 2014 at 10:19 AM
gpgt1998
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


The only AF lenses I still have are the 180 3.5 & 16-28 2.8 Tamaron. I sold all my other AFlenses off & use a Helios 44-2, Nilon 105 2.5 AI, & 135 2.8 AI-S with the 6D. I rarely ever use AF and MF lenses have made focusing easier for me with 35mm format. I don't miss my other L lenses a bit. What I use now matches what they were doing at a fraction of the cost and weight. I'm not using expensive adapters either. The M42 adapter was about $5 & Nikon not much more. I do have a Fotodiox nikon to EOS that came with the 135 when I bought it and in comparision to the cheaper one it's lacking. It's loose fitting and is thicker which on my body throws the focus out of tolerance. So, that one's going in the junk bin.


Apr 09, 2014 at 10:20 AM
Coltrane
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


I had a 5D and used many manual lenses on it including several Nikons. It was a great camera for manual focus. I sold it when I picked up a 6D, but I wish I still had it. It was always surprising seeing the great images coming from this old 12mp camera. I think the 5D had a weak AA filter, but I'm not certain if this contributed to the beautiful photos this camera produced.

Edited on Apr 09, 2014 at 12:26 PM · View previous versions



Apr 09, 2014 at 12:23 PM
Joe Garner
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Frankly, if I were to acquire a body for MF lens use it would be either Nikon or Pentax, never a Canon.


Apr 09, 2014 at 12:23 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Joe Garner wrote:
Frankly, if I were to acquire a body for MF lens use it would be either Nikon or Pentax, never a Canon.


?



Apr 09, 2014 at 01:55 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Joe Garner wrote:
Frankly, if I were to acquire a body for MF lens use it would be either Nikon or Pentax, never a Canon.

gdanmitchell wrote:
?


Yeah. Interesting point of view. You can put Nikon and Pentax lenses on a Canon DSLR, but not the other way around, at least not until you get into Leitax mount kits.



Apr 09, 2014 at 02:18 PM
Joe Garner
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


jcolwell wrote:
Yeah. Interesting point of view. You can put Nikon and Pentax lenses on a Canon DSLR, but not the other way around, at least not until you get into Leitax mount kits.


It's rather simple. 1. You can use native MF lenses available in vast amounts for either mount. I mean, how many people need a standard lens better than SMC Pentax 50/1.4 or portrait glass better than Nikkor 105/2.5? 2. You enjoy direct compatibility, no adapters, no infinity focus issues. 3. You get automatic aperture, which is a huge, huge advantage. 4. I am not sure about Pentax, but manual focusing on Nikon bodies is simpler than on Canon.



Apr 09, 2014 at 04:25 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Joe Garner wrote:
Frankly, if I were to acquire a body for MF lens use it would be either Nikon or Pentax, never a Canon.

gdanmitchell wrote:
?

jcolwell wrote:
Yeah. Interesting point of view. You can put Nikon and Pentax lenses on a Canon DSLR, but not the other way around, at least not until you get into Leitax mount kits.

Joe Garner wrote:
It's rather simple. 1. You can use native MF lenses available in vast amounts for either mount. I mean, how many people need a standard lens better than SMC Pentax 50/1.4 or portrait glass better than Nikkor 105/2.5? 2. You enjoy direct compatibility, no adapters, no infinity focus issues. 3. You get automatic aperture, which is a huge, huge advantage. 4. I am not sure about Pentax, but manual focusing on Nikon bodies is simpler than on Canon.


I don't think it's simple, at all.

Some of the best Alt lenses aren't native to Nikon or Pentax, and can't be mounted on them (short of Leitax). I'm thinking specifically of Contax C/Y and Leica-R. Should I have one body for each mount, in order to try them out, using film no less for some of them?

I have a Nikkor 105/2.5 AI and I have used many Pentax 50mm lenses, from f/1.2 through f/2.8. I have three of them now, -A 50/1.4, /1.7, and /2.8 Macro. Many people would say that the Pentax 50/1.4 can't hold a candle to a Summicron-R or a Planar (me included). I also have a Contax Sonnar 100/3.5; it's not as good for portraits as my Nikkor 105/2.5, but it blows the doors off the Nikkor for scenic and high detail images.

I guess what I'm sayin' is this, why limit yourself to a relatively small subset of Alt lenses by picking up a Nikon or Pentax DSLR (for the main purpose of trying Alt lenses)? If that's what you have, then fine, try some native Alt lenses, but if you're looking for a DSLR with the intention of trying a variety of Alt lenses, then Canon is hard to beat. A Sony is DSLR is worth considering, too, but not Nikon and Pentax, unless there are other reasons pointing in that direction (e.g. you own some AF lenses). Also, there are a lot of excellent mirrorless options now that weren't around when the 5D was born. Of course, they don't play so well with Canon AF lenses.



Apr 09, 2014 at 05:58 PM
Joe Garner
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Oh, I actually think it's that simple. I believe that convenience trumps extra lines of resolution and Nikkor on Nikons are just so convenient. And good. Good enough. I trust you if you say that Contax 100/3.5 knocks the socks off 105/2.5, but my understanding is its price is not that far off from 100L? These are toys for dedicated aficionados with significant disposable income, people who represent but a sliver of MF shooters.
In this particular case the man already has a D700. For his budget he can probably get 28/2.8, 50/1.4 and 105/2.5 and find out if he likes shooting manual. 5Dc will eat this money, and still leave him unable to shoot some of very nice lenses available out there.



Apr 10, 2014 at 01:07 AM
melcat
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Unlike Dan, I do have practical experience using adapted manual focus lenses on my 5D. I used the Ee-S focussing screen, which did not require shimming on my camera, and never thought I needed live view. The following picture was taken using an adapted OM Zuiko 100mm f/2 on a tripod-mounted 5D:


Brachyscome by Frank Ernens, on Flickr. Copyright Francis Ernens.

I was probably using my Olympus OM Varimagni Finder, the angle finder for the OM system, which happens to fit the 5D. There is another version of this shot wider open, and the focus is correct there too. I also used my adapted lenses a fair bit on backcountry hiking trips to save weight compared with the Canon ones. Focussing handheld was perfectly possible provided I wasn't rushed.

The manual aperture was a nuisance, but for "trying out" fast 50s it should be tolerable. One caveat: you cannot easily adapt Minolta MD to EOS. I really can't comment on how good focussing/exposure is at f/1.2 is, because my only interest was using the OM lenses I already had, none that fast.



Apr 10, 2014 at 04:42 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


... I trust you if you say that Contax 100/3.5 knocks the socks off 105/2.5, but my understanding is its price is not that far off from 100L? .

The CZ Sonnar 100/3.5 costs about $325 in [E] to [E+] condition. Hardly the sole domain of the "dedicated aficionados with significant disposable income".

Joe Garner wrote:
...5Dc will eat this money, and still leave him unable to shoot some of very nice lenses available out there.


Which lenses would those be, and how would you put them on a Pentax or Nikon DSLR?

The OP is fully aware of the price for a 5D.



Apr 10, 2014 at 05:08 AM
melcat
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 5Dc for Manual Lenses?


Joe Garner wrote:
For his budget he can probably get 28/2.8, 50/1.4 and 105/2.5 and find out if he likes shooting manual.


I read the OP as wanting to try certain particular fast lenses rather than "shooting manual" for itself. A lot of people are looking for certain "vintage" bokeh styles from these old lenses. It just happens to be that they are mostly from the pre-AF period.



Apr 10, 2014 at 05:47 AM





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