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Archive 2014 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4

  
 
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


I have somewhat particular needs/desires with my camera. I like three different focal lengths (35mm-e): 24mm(or a little wider), 35mm-at-least-f2, and 85mm-at-least-1.8. The X-Pro1 meets these lens requirements with the excellent 14mm/2.8, 23/1.4, and 56/1.2. I already own the first two. However, since the 56/1.2 is a thousand dollars, and I'd like to have a second body, it didn't seem that crazy to pick up a 6D and a 85/1.8.

Also, I can't shake the feeling that I'm missing "something" when I switched from a Canon 5D to a X-Pro1. I still had my old Canon 35mm/2 (now discontinued for the 35/2 IS USM). So I decided to do a few comparison shots between the X-Pro1 outfitted with the 23/1.4 and the Canon 6D with the 35/2. There are two "types" of test shots: wide open (1.4 with the Fuji and 2.0 with the Canon) and stopped down (5.6 with the Fuji and 8.0 with the Canon). Exposures (which sometime varied quite a bit since I was shooting auto) are matched. Colors were matched as best as I could manage (Canon tends to have a warmer WB and a bit more magenta in tone). ACR8.4 was used for the Canon and Aperture 3.5.1 for the Fuji files. I would have preferred to use the same RAW converter, but the 6D files looked HORRIBLE with Aperture (something is very wrong) and we all know that ACR and Fuji X don't get along. My PhotoNinja trial expired a while ago, so I just had to use two different converters.

Impressions? I like the Canon colors better than the Fuji. The Canon are warmer (which I like) and more magenta. I don't like the cooler and greener Fuji defaults as much. The Canon setup is substantially heavier but fairly comfortable to hold, with the beefy grip. I like having a ~100% perfect optical viewfinder again. The Canon files are substantially more detailed at base ISO and a touch noisier. They are also a bit less noisy at the extremely high ISO. The wide-open set favors Canon a bit, since I'm seeing better contrast from the Canon gear. I like what I see from the Canon when I'm at 100% compared to the Fuji but I'm not sure I can tell much of a difference when viewing the files fitted to my 15'' screen.

I'm seriously considering selling off my Fuji gear and getting the Canon 24/2.8 IS USM, 35/2 IS USM, and 85/1.8 USM. The mirrorless merry-go-round is getting a big dizzy. I know if Fuji goes full-frame or Sony actually releases a triplet of primes I like, I won't be able to resist the temptation to "upgrade," so it makes some sense to just move over to something "stable" for now. A Canon 6D/24/35/85 getup only weighs a few hundred grams more than a X-Pro1(or X-T1)/14/23/56 getup. Basically the lenses are almost identical in weight. The only difference is in the body weight.

Anyways, sorry for the rambling. I'd love to hear your impressions of the image quality. The photos are on Flickr
here. The Canon files have been downsized to match the Fuji in resolution.

DSCF11921 (2)

IMG_1900

DSCF11912

IMG_1865

There are more sets on the Flickr set linked above. Feel free to re-post and make crops.



Apr 08, 2014 at 09:08 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


I think from the MPX alone, you'll see more detail from the Canon but the particular subject matter illustrated here is a well known weakness of Fuji raw converters and even JPGs.

Overall, I do think the 6D is the better image maker all things considered and if you're okay with using a DSLR with all it's own problems, it's probably a better solution for you.



Apr 08, 2014 at 09:29 AM
millsart
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Both systems can produce nice files, and there are plenty of great lens for both systems as well (obviously Canon EF but Fuji has come a long way with the line-up).

I think if anything, it comes down to if one enjoys a faux RF style camera, and the mirrorless EVF options, or a DSLR with true TTL optical finder.

I enjoy my Fuji's but for some stuff my DSLR's just plain are easier to use. Doing event work for example, my D3s can give me thousands of frames and never miss a beat, pause to AF etc. I could use that thing in my sleep. On the other hand, for casual shooting, its a big heavy rig that isn't too fun to carry.

DSLR's aren't going anywhere anytime soon, they still do some stuff way better than any mirrorless.

I thought maybe I'd sell one D3s after getting the XT1 but quickly found out that wouldn't work for me



Apr 08, 2014 at 09:31 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


The color difference/ preference is of course adjustable. One thing that is nice about using Adobe for raw conversion with fuji is that you do have the custom camera profiles (Provia, Astia, etc.) which very likely might sway you towards a preference for the Fuji color out of Adobe now. Since I use the Fuji X-A1 (bayer sensor with no X-Trans silliness), I don't have issues with Adobe conversions and still can enjoy the Fuji color profiles. Unless you are specifically shooting something that's known to have an issue with X-Trans+Adobe (like perhaps your examples above), Adobe may still be an option for you with many types of images. I do think it has clearly improved since initial Fuji X-Trans support.

With regard to the Canon 85 1.8 USM, I shot this lens extensively on the 5D many years back. Great bargain and very sharp but the bokeh could be absolutely horrendous (swirly, busy just terrible imo in certain portrait situations.). Just something to consider.



Apr 08, 2014 at 09:37 AM
loosh
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Dave McGaughey wrote:
I'm seriously considering selling off my Fuji gear and getting the Canon 24/2.8 IS USM, 35/2 IS USM, and 85/1.8 USM. The mirrorless merry-go-round is getting a big dizzy. I know if Fuji goes full-frame or Sony actually releases a triplet of primes I like, I won't be able to resist the temptation to "upgrade," so it makes some sense to just move over to something "stable" for now.


You want to sell all of your gear now because you're worried you might sell all of your gear later? I'd shoot whatever is the most enjoyable for you to use, I don't believe the difference in IQ matters that much anymore.



Apr 08, 2014 at 09:48 AM
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


loosh wrote:
You want to sell all of your gear now because you're worried you might sell all of your gear later? I'd shoot whatever is the most enjoyable for you to use, I don't believe the difference in IQ matters that much anymore.


Good point. Now that I think a bit more, this is actually what the problem is. The X-Pro1 is annoying to shoot with for several reasons: shutter lag (even in manual everything), I'm not mentally agile enough to keep track of which direction the OVF will be wrong in, the EVF is unpleasant to use, the AF is "deliberate", I have to use a wired shutter release, I keep loosing viewfinder covers, and the card door is stuck when the camera is tripod mounted. The X-T1 solves most of these problems, but it sounds like the EVF still blocks up in high contrast scenes and stutters in some situations.

The only downside of the 6D is that it is bulkier. Sigh. If only Canon/Nikon would release a "prosumer" full-frame DSLR where low size and weight was a key criteria.



Apr 08, 2014 at 10:54 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Dave McGaughey wrote:
... Sigh. If only Canon/Nikon would release a "prosumer" full-frame DSLR where low size and weight was a key criteria.


That would be the 6D.




Apr 08, 2014 at 10:59 AM
Sagar
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Or better Nikon DF

jcolwell wrote:
That would be the 6D.





Apr 08, 2014 at 11:15 AM
benee
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Ummm...., there's really not an appreciable difference between the samples. The difference will be in your shooting experience. Personally, I would go with an XT-1 and the 23 1.4 for an everyday combo and I would use a FF 85 1.8 combo for portraits.

Note: you can get a used 5d and 85 1.8 and still pay less than the cost of a new 56 1.2!



Apr 08, 2014 at 11:29 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Dave McGaughey wrote:
The only downside of the 6D is that it is bulkier. Sigh. If only Canon/Nikon would release a "prosumer" full-frame DSLR where low size and weight was a key criteria.


I think compared to most other mirror less cameras the disadvantages are:

Lower build quality, lens AF calibration at various focus distances which do drift over time, dust in the viewfinder, low dynamic range relative to competitors at low ISO, non-tilt screen, no touch point AF, lenses will always be a bit bigger which matters more if you travel a lot and want to bring a few with you. No live view boost in the viewfinder when you're shooting alt glass without an electronic aperture.

Then again, you do gain a lot in high ISO performance which the 6D is exceptionally good at particularly. The AF is behind other DSLRs especially full frame. I think it has very limited cross AF points, IIRC just 1? You do get built in GPS which I actually really enjoy.



Apr 08, 2014 at 11:38 AM
Sagar
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


I can feel your pain from my own experience. I too was overly excited with Mirrorless and literally tried every mirrorless in the market to an extend my wife thought I have gone mad as I was buying/selling Cameras every week

But end of the day, I concluded that as a single system mirrorless are NOT there yet at least in terms of photographing experience as a whole. They could be VERY GOOD complementary add ons to DSLR kit but may not stand on their own (for me).

So ended up selling all mirrorless stuff and went with Nikon DF and set of primes. Even with questionable high cost of DF, my total kit cost is lower/similar to Fuji or m43 kits I was interested in. Yes I do loose some on weight and size, but in turn I get a real View Finder, Great AF including tracking (compared to mirrorless), One of the best sensor bar none (Nikon 16M), Full frame rendering and last but not least 1500+ shots in one battery charge .


Dave McGaughey wrote:
I'm seriously considering selling off my Fuji gear and getting the Canon 24/2.8 IS USM, 35/2 IS USM, and 85/1.8 USM. The mirrorless merry-go-round is getting a big dizzy. I know if Fuji goes full-frame or Sony actually releases a triplet of primes I like, I won't be able to resist the temptation to "upgrade," so it makes some sense to just move over to something "stable" for now. A Canon 6D/24/35/85 getup only weighs a few hundred grams more than a X-Pro1(or X-T1)/14/23/56 getup. Basically the lenses are almost identical in weight. The only difference is in the
...Show more


Edited on Apr 08, 2014 at 11:52 AM · View previous versions



Apr 08, 2014 at 11:44 AM
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Sagar wrote:
Or better Nikon DF



True.....but $2700 is a bridge too far. You can/could get two 6Ds for that price.



Apr 08, 2014 at 11:51 AM
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


FlyPenFly wrote:
I think compared to most other mirror less cameras the disadvantages are:

Lower build quality, lens AF calibration at various focus distances which do drift over time, dust in the viewfinder, low dynamic range relative to competitors at low ISO, non-tilt screen, no touch point AF, lenses will always be a bit bigger which matters more if you travel a lot and want to bring a few with you. No live view boost in the viewfinder when you're shooting alt glass without an electronic aperture.

Then again, you do gain a lot in high ISO performance which the 6D is exceptionally
...Show more

6D Build quality seems OK. No creaks. Finish seems OK. Lens AF calibration is definitely annoying. My X-Pro1 has dust in the viewfinder. Lenses are actually about the same size and weight when you use "equivalents" (23/1.4 vs 35/2, 56/1.2 vs 85/1.8). I only use AF glass. Neither the Fuji nor the Canon have touch point AF (except through a smartphone/tablet app).

The AF of the 6D is probably the most annoying thing. It seems only moderately better than my old 5D. Would it have killed them to at least jam the 7D in this thing? The center point does work well and focus/recompose is less disastrous than you'd think. One nice thing is that the outer AF points do appear to actually work.

The D600 doesn't seem that much better. It does have more AF points, but the coverage is no better and the cross-point sensors are all in the middle.

So, really the X-T1 (in phase AF) is basically equivalent to the D610/6D. Plus you get the benefit of CDAF to confirm focus.



Apr 08, 2014 at 11:58 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


I think the build quality problem I had with the 6D was that it felt pretty hollow and the materials didn't seem too great. The plastics just felt thinner especially the mirror hump. It probably doesn't help that it was right next to a D610 which seems very well made with nice material feel. I somewhat controversially also thought that the X-T1 was built of poor materials and a joke for doors.

Fuji definitely seems to have a reputation for poorly sealed bodies as far as dust and light ingression goes. The X100(s) was notorious for this as well.

From what I recall, the D600's AF is a slightly evolved version of the controversial D7000 version although slightly worse in that the AF points like you said are centrally located. It does seem a bit better than the 6D though.



Apr 08, 2014 at 12:07 PM
efroten
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


I just recently sold all of my Canon gear and switched to Fuji, I wanted to switch to a lighter setup and I loved the images I was getting out of my X100. So I sold my 5D Mk II, 24L, 70-200 2.8L, 135L, 85 1.8, 50 1.4 and 17-40L. My new Fuji X-T1 setup includes a 14 2.8, 23 1.4, 35 1.4, 18-55 and 55-200. I'm selling my 18-55 and may return or sell the 55-200 and get the 56 1.2 instead.

So far my biggest gripe about the X-T1 is that the AF is not on the same level as the Mk II in some circumstances, not sure if this is due to the lens motors or the camera itself though. At times it can be very frustrating to focus, even more so than the 5D Mk II was. At 100% crop I would say the 5D Mk II has more more detail also. But I can shoot at higher ISOs with the X-T1, I'm sure the 6D would be at least as good though. The build quality is really solid, except for the SD card door, but its not noticeable when its closed. I also really miss the amazing shallow DoF of full frame.

I'm going to stick with the system for a while and see how it goes. Maybe someday I will switch back to a FF Canon, but right now I'm really enjoying the size and weight of this setup. Hopefully Fuji keeps working on its Autofocus issues!



Apr 08, 2014 at 10:36 PM
millsart
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


Sony A7 perhaps ?

Pretty good AF, nice EVF, FF, 24 megs, get a Metabones adapter and use your Canon glass, some even with AF, and its the smallest FF body you'll find.



Apr 08, 2014 at 11:12 PM
millsart
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


efroten wrote:
So far my biggest gripe about the X-T1 is that the AF is not on the same level as the Mk II in some circumstances, not sure if this is due to the lens motors or the camera itself though.



Did you really think it was going to match a DSLR when it came to focusing though ?



Apr 08, 2014 at 11:14 PM
justruss
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


efroten wrote:
I just recently sold all of my Canon gear and switched to Fuji, I wanted to switch to a lighter setup and I loved the images I was getting out of my X100. So I sold my 5D Mk II, 24L, 70-200 2.8L, 135L, 85 1.8, 50 1.4 and 17-40L. My new Fuji X-T1 setup includes a 14 2.8, 23 1.4, 35 1.4, 18-55 and 55-200. I'm selling my 18-55 and may return or sell the 55-200 and get the 56 1.2 instead.

So far my biggest gripe about the X-T1 is that the AF is not on the same level
...Show more

You might be able to shoot at a higher ISO with the X-T1, but you may not be getting better exposure (SS, aperture, brightness of exposed image)... I suggest a controlled test. That's my experience with the 5D2 and X-E1; I need to go to the higher ISO on the Fuji to get similar exposure values/output. So 3200 is cleaner, but it's not necessarily an advantage if it's exposing like 1600 on the Canon.

To the OP: The first issue with my Fuji (compared to my 5d2) is AF. Then resolution. The first issue with my 5D2 is the size, then the dynamic range. Both sides are moving together, but they haven't found parity yet. How I lust for an RX1-alike-or-followup with 5D2 centerpoint AF speed/accuracy. Bonus for a non-hump EVF or hybrid VF.




Apr 09, 2014 at 02:54 AM
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


millsart wrote:
Sony A7 perhaps ?

Pretty good AF, nice EVF, FF, 24 megs, get a Metabones adapter and use your Canon glass, some even with AF, and its the smallest FF body you'll find.


Problem is that Sony has zero lenses I want. The 35/2.8 is a stop too slow. The 55/1.8 is not a focal length I care too much for. No idea when Sony will ship a wide angle prime and a fast 85mm. My impression of the Canon-on-Sony setup was that the AF was rather pokey.

I also tried briefly with a Nex-5n and Nex-7 to use adapted manual focus lenses. It went....poorly. Lots of slightly misfocused pictures and it's maddening to not have any aperture/lens EXIF info.



Apr 09, 2014 at 09:38 AM
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon 6D|35/2 and Fuji X-Pro1|23/1.4


justruss wrote:
You might be able to shoot at a higher ISO with the X-T1, but you may not be getting better exposure (SS, aperture, brightness of exposed image)... I suggest a controlled test. That's my experience with the 5D2 and X-E1; I need to go to the higher ISO on the Fuji to get similar exposure values/output. So 3200 is cleaner, but it's not necessarily an advantage if it's exposing like 1600 on the Canon.

To the OP: The first issue with my Fuji (compared to my 5d2) is AF. Then resolution. The first issue with my 5D2 is the size,
...Show more

That's pretty much where I'm at. It's so frustrating seeing how the technology exists for the camera I want, but it's being held or used properly by several different companies.

I'd love a RX1-II with that new A6000 AF and a built-in EVF/OVF. Then I could use a DSLR to fill in the rest of the focal lengths.



Apr 09, 2014 at 09:48 AM
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