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Archive 2014 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

nebula
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

A significant issue for many of us using the Sony A7(r) is the ability to use their inherent portability. It seems that around the 35mm mark, possibly higher, RF lenses become generally usable on the Sony systems. Usable here means approaching a given lens' optimal performance. Minimal criteria for "optimal" means minimal edge/corner smearing, color cast and vignetting or performance in those dimensions being similar to the performance on a vetted system like the M9. Admittedly, the M9 itself can't handle all WA RF lenses but it's a good reference point at least. Less strictly, let's mention the WA RF lenses which have generally good or great performance on the respective Sony in consideration of the particular lens' generally accepted abilities. Also consider lenses where its images are easily corrected in PP.

Bits and pieces of anecdotal reports, useful as they may be, are scattered confusingly far and wide amongst the various A7(r) posts, but I think it would be useful to a great many of us here to have a more centralized thread containing the main results. To that end I'll start with a humble entry, the CV21 f4, to which hopefully members will add until we get the majority of the lenses figured out. I'll try to slowly add most of the well known WA RF lenses from 15mm-35mm and I'll keep re-editing the results here for clarity. Below, by "Performance" I'm suggesting a number out of five that reflects the lens' maximal potential in relative terms, not in absolute performance. Hopefully, this quantity will serve as an approximate gauge of the lens' relative impairment. Any qualitative information is also good. I'm open to formatting this data in a more sensible way if someone has a suggestion. For now, I just want to get a) all the relevant lenses down in one post b) work on determining the usability of each of these lenses or at least the most often used ones.

Here is a provisional rating scheme:

5/5: No problems with any aperture or focus distance
4/5: Some magenta shift wide open, no blurring
3/5: Some magenta shift and slight blurring
2/5: Heavy magenta shift or blurring
1/5: even more
0/5: The lens murders you when you put it on the camera

Sony A7 WA RF Lenses:

21mm                                                    Performance

Contax G/2.8 (Biogon)                                2/5
Leica/1.4 ASPH (Summilux)                        4/5
Leica/2.8 ASPH (Elmarit)                            4/5
Leica/3.4 ASPH (Super-Elmar)                    3/5
Leica/2.8 (Elmarit)                                        2/5
Leica/3.4 (Super Angulon)
Leica/4.0 (Super Angulon)
Leica Tri-Elmar (aka WATE)/4.0                  5/5
Konica Hexanon/2.8                                    5/5
Konica Hexanon/4.0
Voigtlander/4.0 (Color-Skopar)                     4/5
Voigtlander/1.8 ASPH (Ultron)                    4.5/5
Zeiss ZM/2.8 (Biogon)                                 3/5
Zeiss ZM/4.5 (C-Biogon)                             2/5

28mm

Leica/2.0 ASPH (Summicron-M)
Leica/2.8 (Elmarit I, II, III, IV)                    Ver3.-Good
Leica/2.8 ASPH (Elmarit-M)                     Bad Color Shift
Leica/4.0 ASPH (Tri-Elmar-M)
Leica/5.6 (Summaron)
Zeiss ZM/2.8 (Biogon)
Contax G/2.8 (Biogon)                             3/5
Minolta/2.0 (M-Rokkor)                            Good Performance
Voigtlander/1.9 (Ultron)                            Excellent
Voigtlander/2.0 (Ultron)                            Smeary Corners

Sony A7R WA RF Lenses:

21mm Performance

Contax G/2.8 (Biogon)
Leica/1.4 ASPH (Summilux)
Leica/2.8 ASPH (Elmarit)
Leica/3.4 ASPH (Super-Elmar)
Leica/2.8 (Elmarit)
Leica/3.4 (Super Angulon)
Leica/4.0 (Super Angulon)
Leica Tri-Elmar (aka WATE)/4.0
Konica Hexanon/2.8
Konica Hexanon/4.0
Voigtlander/4.0 (Color-Skopar)
Voigtlander/1.8 ASPH (Ultron)
Zeiss ZM/2.8 (Biogon)
Zeiss ZM/4.5 (C-Biogon)

28mm

Leica/2.0 ASPH (Summicron-M)
Leica/2.8 (Elmarit I, II, III, IV)
Leica/2.8 ASPH (Elmarit-M)
Leica/4.0 ASPH (Tri-Elmar-M)
Leica/5.6 (Summaron)
Zeiss ZM/2.8 (Biogon)
Contax G/2.8 (Biogon)
Minolta/2.0 (M-Rokkor)
Voigtlander/1.9 (Ultron)
Voigtlander/2.0 (Ultron)

AND....continue.

Edited on Apr 09, 2014 at 08:13 AM · View previous versions

Apr 07, 2014 at 05:40 PM

FlyPenFly
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

Maybe a shared google doc spreadsheet?

Apr 07, 2014 at 06:07 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

this would be the rating i'd give based on tests i've seen and raw images sent to me by various people. note that i lowered the rating of the cv 21/4 to 4/5. it seems to me to have more corner smearing on the a7 than the m9. take all of these ratings with a grain of salt though, because i haven't shot with any of these lenses myself.

Sony A7 WA RF Lenses:

21mm Performance

Contax G/2.8 (Biogon) 2/5
Leica/1.4 ASPH (Summilux) 4/5
Leica/2.8 ASPH (Elmarit) 4/5
Leica/3.4 ASPH (Super-Elmar) 3/5
Leica/2.8 (Elmarit)
Leica/3.4 (Super Angulon)
Leica/4.0 (Super Angulon)
Leica Tri-Elmar (aka WATE)/4.0 5/5
Konica Hexanon/2.8
Konica Hexanon/4.0
Voigtlander/4.0 (Color-Skopar) 4/5
Voigtlander/1.8 ASPH (Ultron) 5/5
Zeiss ZM/2.8 (Biogon) 3/5
Zeiss ZM/4.5 (C-Biogon) 2/5

Sony A7R WA RF Lenses:

Edited on Apr 07, 2014 at 10:21 PM · View previous versions

Apr 07, 2014 at 06:47 PM

nebula
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

Nice, yeah some information will have to be anecdotal at first.

Apr 07, 2014 at 06:52 PM

nebula
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

FPF: that sounds like a good idea. Let's see how disorganized this gets first.

Apr 07, 2014 at 06:56 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

i'll give the contax g 28/2.8 a 3/5 rating. minor color shift on the a7 but considerable field curvature and astigmatism in the corners. still usable if you stop it down to f/11 and focus short of infinity.

here is a full sized example with no color correction (but vignetting and CA correction).

Apr 07, 2014 at 07:39 PM

millsart
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

This is a very good idea, HOWEVER, I think the rating scale is kind of subjective based upon what people are shooting.

CV15 for example has pretty bad color shift, making it a deal breaker for color (IMHO) but it looks pretty good in B&W, so if that is your typical output of choice, it could go from say a 2/5 for color, to a 4/5 for a B&W shooter on an A7, who's shooting street scenes and doesn't care as much about the corners.

If someone is doing mainly portraiture, maybe some astigmatism, CA etc isn't a big deal, even if it doesn't improve by f8/11, where for someone else who's doing landscapes, soft corners even stopped down would be a deal breaker.

Maybe when rating we could add something like if your looking for a good landscape lens and shoot stopped down, if you mainly work in color or B&W etc, so we can pay a bit more attention to ratings if they are given by other users who would be looking for similar characteristics out of a lens

Apr 07, 2014 at 09:48 PM

FlyPenFly
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

It appears the CV21mm F1.8 has magenta shift, not sure if it's 5/5.

IMO:

5/5: No problems with any aperture or focus distance
4/5: Some magenta shift wide open, no blurring
3/5: Some magenta shift and slight blurring
2/5: Heavy magenta shift or blurring
1/5: even more
0/5: The lens murders you when you put it on the camera

Apr 07, 2014 at 10:11 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

FlyPenFly wrote:
It appears the CV21mm F1.8 has magenta shift, not sure if it's 5/5.

IMO:

5/5: No problems with any aperture or focus distance
4/5: Some magenta shift wide open, no blurring
3/5: Some magenta shift and slight blurring
2/5: Heavy magenta shift or blurring
1/5: even more
0/5: The lens murders you when you put it on the camera

that sounds reasonable to me and pretty much fits with my ratings.

Apr 07, 2014 at 10:21 PM

nebula
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

millsart, I agree about the vagueness of the rated scheme. I agree with adding notes. I'll put another column. The main point here I think though is: is lens X sufficiently compromised such that one's expectation of its performance doesn't come sufficiently close to justify a purchase for the Sony systems. It would be tragic to spend $4000 on a Summilux only to find it usable only from f5.6 and up.

Apr 07, 2014 at 10:24 PM

nebula
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

So for now, we'll use FPF's rating scheme unless something better comes along. Just enter the info any way you like and I'll update it on the first post.

Apr 07, 2014 at 10:26 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

I like flypenfly's rating system, but it be useful to that this rating system is independent of considering how the lens would perform on a Leica camera. Some lenses might well be 3/5 on both a Leica camera and the Sony cameras or at least 4/5. So if a lens is less than 5/5 on the M9 or m240, then that might be useful to note as well.

Apr 07, 2014 at 11:23 PM

FlyPenFly
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

There should also probably be a distinction made between A7 and A7R.

Apr 08, 2014 at 10:17 AM

sebboh
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

yeah, I figured this was just for the a7. my ratings don't apply to the a7r.

Apr 08, 2014 at 10:57 AM

FlyPenFly
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

sebboh wrote:
yeah, I figured this was just for the a7. my ratings don't apply to the a7r.

I haven't read much into it but I assume the a7r struggles more with wider range finder glass?

From the two samples I've seen so far, the Voigtlander 21mm F1.8 appears to be a 4 or 3.5. Even in web sizes, purple shift seems to be easily visible.

Apr 08, 2014 at 11:41 AM

sebboh
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

FlyPenFly wrote:
I haven't read much into it but I assume the a7r struggles more with wider range finder glass?

From the two samples I've seen so far, the Voigtlander 21mm F1.8 appears to be a 4 or 3.5. Even in web sizes, purple shift seems to be easily visible.

purple shift seems nearly non-existant on the a7 from what i've seen (and what is there is also present on the m9). it does have pretty heavy purple and vignetting on the a7r though.

Apr 08, 2014 at 02:42 PM

xbarcelo
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

Are the Hexanons 21/2,8 and 21/4 RF lenses? I thought they're actually SLR lenses… I have the 21/2,8. I would rate it as 5/5, except that it has quite a few aberrations and massive field curvature.

Apr 08, 2014 at 03:40 PM

freaklikeme
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

I'm reading this as "in comparison to the lens performance on a native mount camera", right? Some lenses just have bad corners and edges or other problems that aren't created by the pairing with the a7(r).

I've used the Summilux-M 35 Pre-A extensively on the a7 and give it a 5/5 in comparison to how it behaves on an M9.

I really wanted the Elmarit-M 21 Pre-A (first version with .4M MFD) to work out, but it didn't. Close focused, it was sharp across the frame but the edges shifted (same as the M9). At infinity, there's a great deal of of smearing. So, on the a7, I'd go 2/5.

Apr 08, 2014 at 04:18 PM

nebula
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

So, I've added lenses for the A7R on the off-chance there's a greater performance with a given lens on that camera vs. the A7. My initial intention was that the rating scheme should reflect not absolute performance, but performance relative to expectation. For instance, if the ZM 21 f2.8, is poor on the A7 then we give the Zeiss a 1/5 or 2/5. On the other hand, if it meets expectation then we give it a 5/5. Kind of a wonky scheme because it ostensibly suggests an absolute rating. If anyone has a clearer rating system let's do it.

Apr 09, 2014 at 08:07 AM

dbehrens
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · A7(R) WA RF Lens Compatibility Roundup - 35mm and Under

Since corner performance is important for so many WA applications how would we rate a lens whose corners get crisp when stopped down? May I suggest a comment that states at what aperture are the corners sharp. It also may be helpful if there is a comment stating what aperture the lens is sharpest.

Apr 09, 2014 at 08:48 AM

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