Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda, JimFox
Username   Password

FM Forum Rules
Landscape Posting Guidelines
  

FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
  

Sw Grand Vista
  
 
Mark Metternich
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Sw Grand Vista


andyjaggy82 wrote:
I personally prefer more natural looking images, For example I much prefer Nigel's images in his portfolio than Mark's images. Sorry Mark though Mark does have some images I really do dig.

I'm not against processing, and of course I do quite a bit of it myself in my own work. But I do like to stay true to the scene, and would be embarrassed if someone who was there when I took a shot looked at my image and knew it wasn't what we saw.

I think mostly I am just tired of all the Marc Adamus clones and
...Show more


I like all of it when done right. Both subtle work and over the top. I go on an image to image basis.



Apr 08, 2014 at 04:10 PM
Mark Metternich
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Sw Grand Vista


gdanmitchell wrote:
What I enjoy about your comment, taken as a whole, is that it suggests that the "real versus processed" extreme points of view are unrealistic and perhaps even distracting. Virtually no photography lies at either extreme—no one goes as far with "processing" as is possible and no one is completely realistic.

One of the reasons the issue is so interesting and so open to discussion and differences of opinion is that ultimately it comes down to subjective matters of taste and preference. That question—how we respond to images and why—is one of the most important subjects in photography or any other
...Show more

Dan I have enjoyed your well thought feedback here.



Apr 08, 2014 at 04:15 PM
wswartzwel
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Sw Grand Vista


As a new member I have really enjoyed the dialog here. Sorry for Mark's thread being abused, but a lot of good information has been posted here. Very helpful when trying to decide how far to take my processing, as I learn.

Thanks for everyone that has shared their opinions, and ideas. And thanks Mark for for your honest responses to the criticism, without getting upset. Very cool.

G Dan Mitchell… I took your advice and Googled Coal Mine Canyon, and interestingly enough came to this thread.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/z/1130898/0



Apr 08, 2014 at 04:40 PM
andyjaggy82
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Sw Grand Vista


wswartzwel wrote:
As a new member I have really enjoyed the dialog here. Sorry for Mark's thread being abused, but a lot of good information has been posted here. Very helpful when trying to decide how far to take my processing, as I learn.

Thanks for everyone that has shared their opinions, and ideas. And thanks Mark for for your honest responses to the criticism, without getting upset. Very cool.

G Dan Mitchell… I took your advice and Googled Coal Mine Canyon, and interestingly enough came to this thread.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/z/1130898/0


I agree, I know this argument gets kind of old, but really so long as everyone keeps it civil and we all admit that it's personal taste and there isn't necessarily a right or wrong, then I think these conversations can actually be beneficial and help us realize why we like what we do. I'm lucky that I can just do what I like and don't have to worry about what the general public enjoys, but others making a living from doing this have to be a little bit more concerned about what other people think of their work, and these conversation are probably helpful in understanding what other people enjoy and don't enjoy.

Mark is great at letting other people express their opinions and respectfully listening to them, even if he disagrees. A large portion of his image threads do tend to get sidetracked though....

So in a probably vain attempt to get it back on track. I like the image, the composition is very nice, and the area looks extremely fascinating. What bothers me the most about the image is the color of the sky, it's this weird silvery magenta color that just does not mesh well with the rest of the scene. For all I know that's the color it really was, nature doesn't always color coordinate itself.



Apr 08, 2014 at 05:34 PM
Nigel Turner
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Sw Grand Vista


Well TBH, I'm almost lost for words reading through the rest of this thread. So please let me make myself perfectly clear here once and for all.

Firstly as some of the other comments are clearly aimed in my direction and I'm now in the bulls eye I don't feel that in anyway have I abused Mark and I'm sure that Mark would agree with me. Secondly, as one poster seems to think that I am on a personal vendetta against her, and have now turned this so called vendetta towards Mark. All I have done is voice my own personal thoughts about Mark's image in what I feel is or at least should be taken as constructive criticism and the state of landscape photography today in the digital age. Nothing more, nothing less.

Excuse me if you feel my comments and thoughts are out of place, but I was under the impression that this is after all a discussion forum for folk to discuss the images posted here.

If folk don't feel this way then fine.. I'll quit posting in an attempt not to put anyone's nose out of joint.

And once again if Mark feels that in anyway I am trying to belittle him.. then I sorry. And if my views have offended anyone else.. well guess what, I'm sorry for that as well.

Nigel.



Apr 08, 2014 at 05:53 PM
Sunny Sra
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Sw Grand Vista


Nigel Turner wrote:
Well TBH, I'm almost lost for words reading through the rest of this thread. So please let me make myself perfectly clear here once and for all.

Firstly as some of the other comments are clearly aimed in my direction and I'm now in the bulls eye I don't feel that in anyway have I abused Mark and I'm sure that Mark would agree with me. Secondly, as one poster seems to think that I am on a personal vendetta against her, and have now turned this so called vendetta towards Mark. All I have done is voice my own
...Show more

Some people are more sensitive than others. If you want to stop posting..thats ok...and if you don't..thats ok too.



Apr 08, 2014 at 06:05 PM
alatoo60
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Sw Grand Vista


Mark, nice re-work, and I liked your original version, too.
Light there is especially wild, perhaps because of sudden changes in terrain. My favorite part of being there, however, is even not the imagery - but a complete solitude and silence, when wind whisper and bird's song become the only sounds one can hear. To me, being there is kin to meditation.
Thanks for bringing back the memories.
I'll try to dig out something from the same location, in my archive.

Sasha.



Apr 08, 2014 at 06:10 PM
wswartzwel
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Sw Grand Vista


Nigel, I appreciated your comments. When I used the word "abused" I was referring to His thread being used as a discussion format. Not that you were abusing him. I have found your comments to be spot on in other threads where you have posted as well. Often saying things that need to be said.


Apr 08, 2014 at 06:14 PM
Mark Metternich
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Sw Grand Vista


andyjaggy82 wrote:
...I'm not against processing, and of course I do quite a bit of it myself in my own work. But I do like to stay true to the scene, and would be embarrassed if someone who was there when I took a shot looked at my image and knew it wasn't what we saw.


I was leading a workshop here and am not embarrassed to post this at all. It is not as "manufactured" as Nigel may have been suggesting. In fact I lead about 10-25 workshops a year and have never felt embarrassed to post a photo I took side by side clients.

Second point: All images you or I or anyone has ever taken has been processed, and even massively. A raw image essentially can not be viewed. So, (as the late great Bruce Fraser once said) "we are committed to making massive corrections and rendering decisions" to get them to look anything like a landscape.

I believe what we are essentially talking about is whether it is OK to be creative in rendering. Well, I like the creative rendering process a lot and I also like more straight stuff. My preference always go on an image to image basis. If someone adds a touch of localized highlight glow, or some localized mid tone contrast to accentuate things, or darkens the sky a bit more or draws out a little color here and there, or mutes some colors here and there, or dodges and burns subtly here and there... well that is all good in my book as long as it is done subtly and tastefully to optimize and eccentuate. But that is just me. Sometimes I even like a complete digital art composite (although almost never do them) like this guy:

http://500px.com/Karezoid


which I am sure might make some blow a fuse!



Apr 08, 2014 at 07:11 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Sw Grand Vista


Mark Metternich wrote:
I believe what we are essentially talking about is whether it is OK to be creative in rendering.


I don't think it is quite that simple, Mark. Only a few extremists would suggest that it isn't "OK to be creative in rendering." Virtually everyone else agrees that "being creative" in "rendering" is a normal and often a good thing.

The questions are more about the effect on viewers of certain approaches to "rendering" with certain subjects. In one sense, it is—obviously, I would propose—"OK" to do anything to any photograph. There are no laws against doing X, Y, or Z.

On the other hand, there are consequences for doing X, Y, or Z and a discussion of how those things are regarded by those who see the photograph is not only appropriate but expected. In fact, you have "gone there" yourself earlier in this thread when you made some value judgments about photography that you attribute to what you called (IIRC) the "new generation" of photographers. You did not say the "the old generation" should not do the things that you associate with their practice, but you certainly expressed an opinion about it.

I'm not arguing here that one or the other opinion is right or wrong, but I am suggesting that this isn't about whether one is or is not "creative in rendering," but more about how people respond to the particular ways that various photographers present their subjects.

Make sense?

Dan



Apr 08, 2014 at 07:26 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



roguecoolman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Sw Grand Vista


Oh it's the internet again

I posted on FB about your image so no need to repeat here.

Honestly, I think Nigel is just a guy whose very honest in his opinions and I don't think he went overboard (I've been on the "net" since the BBS/IRC days so I have a very high tolerance to what I think is overboard :P).

I think everyone here (including Mark) is just firm on their beliefs and their views and that's fine. It's whats makes them exceptional photographers because they stick to their guns and present their work the way they want it. Some people don't like it, some will. There will always be "that thing to do" in every generation - remember HDR :P

At the end of the day, these guys are also business folks and have to sell their work to make ends meat. Art isn't free as we all like it to be. I would imagine the largest percentage of buyers are not pro photographers, so be thankful your vision/technique/style supports your livelihood.



Jason



Apr 08, 2014 at 07:33 PM
Sunny Sra
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Sw Grand Vista


IRC! mIrc it


Apr 08, 2014 at 07:40 PM
roguecoolman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Sw Grand Vista


Sunny Sra wrote:
IRC! mIrc it


Are you H0tGURL949 from back in the day

Jason



Apr 08, 2014 at 07:43 PM
jord217
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Sw Grand Vista


Thanks for the link Mark. I love composites when they are done well (like those are) and I would never have the skills to pull something like that off. I'll just echo what other said here already. I like the photo, even if it's not one of your strongest pieces. The only thing that gets me is the color of the sky. I like everything else even if it's more extreme in color and contrast than what I see you normally post. The lightning is sweet. I think both you and Nigel made some great points and hopefully there is no ill will between you two. You both have equally terrific work, just completely different styles, and that's ok. At the end of the day it's how you feel about your own work that really matters. Look forward to some new gorge photos from you soon too

Jordan



Apr 08, 2014 at 07:44 PM
Sunny Sra
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Sw Grand Vista


roguecoolman wrote:
Are you H0tGURL949 from back in the day

Jason


B4h4h4h4 s0m3t1m3s

i still mirc once in a while...its not the same as twerk for the younginz



Apr 08, 2014 at 07:50 PM
Mark Metternich
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Sw Grand Vista


gdanmitchell wrote:
I don't think it is quite that simple, Mark. Only a few extremists would suggest that it isn't "OK to be creative in rendering." Virtually everyone else agrees that "being creative" in "rendering" is a normal and often a good thing.

The questions are more about the effect on viewers of certain approaches to "rendering" with certain subjects. In one sense, it is—obviously, I would propose—"OK" to do anything to any photograph. There are no laws against doing X, Y, or Z.

On the other hand, there are consequences for doing X, Y, or Z and a discussion of how those
...Show more

Makes total sense. Maybe what I should have said was: "I believe what we are essentially talking about is how creative it is OK to be in rendering."

I have always been totally fine with those who want to be literalistic. I go on an image to image basis. Even with my own work. But generally I have a preference toward the gray area of "in between". My personal preference also generally gravitates more toward the sublime/surreal. All I am really saying is that it is art and no one has the superior way, or should be telling others that their way is not as valid as their own. I see a lot of the work of the above mentioned artists very valid. I also see Nigels work as valid too.

BTW, I took another peep at Nigel's work and clicked on "Gallery" and found an immediate image that has a lot of Orton Glow/Blur on it and the saturation pushed farther than I would care to have it, if it was mine. So, he may say his renderings are natural, but at least that one isn't IMO. But, I dont care, he is an artist as well! I do like Nigels work and have followed it for years.



Apr 08, 2014 at 07:58 PM
Mark Metternich
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Sw Grand Vista


jord217 wrote:
I think both you and Nigel made some great points and hopefully there is no ill will between you two.


As I have said above a few times, I have thick skin and can debate 'till the sun goes down with someone and still be best of friends. I have no personal issues with him. I have also enjoyed his work for a long time.



Apr 08, 2014 at 08:02 PM
Klaus Priebe
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Sw Grand Vista


Mark,
Very nice work artistic or not. I hope to shoot here this summer. Perhaps our paths will cross in the desert shooting sometime. Keep up the wonderful vision



Apr 08, 2014 at 08:57 PM
ysunkar
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Sw Grand Vista


Stunning picture! Be safe when you shoot from a high spot during thunderstorms.


Apr 08, 2014 at 09:16 PM
Mark Metternich
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Sw Grand Vista


Klaus Priebe wrote:
Mark,
Very nice work artistic or not. I hope to shoot here this summer. Perhaps our paths will cross in the desert shooting sometime. Keep up the wonderful vision


Thank would be great man. I look forward to meeting! Thank you. Love all your work lately.



Apr 09, 2014 at 12:30 AM
1       2      
3
       4       end




FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password