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Archive 2014 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

  
 
rscheffler
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p.10 #1 · p.10 #1 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


U.C. wrote:
Anyone has a special request for a test?


Something that includes both foreground and background blur to see how similar or different they are... My experience with, for example, the Leica 50 Lux ASPH-M is that it has very gaussian background blur, but foreground blur is a bit more lively. Would be interesting to see how the Art shapes up, in this regard.

I think blurred foliage with specular highlights would be suitable.

I'm also curious, and not sure if it was answered earlier, but in the comparison you posted on Flickr, was the Art and EX shot at the exact same position, or did you move closer for the Art (hence the tighter framing)? I wouldn't be surprised if there is some focal length variation, just wondering if it's the case here.

Here's something from the 50 Lux ASPH from a while ago as an illustration of what I mean:

http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/20120202_CV50/20120202_0072.jpg



May 01, 2014 at 06:14 PM
alundeb
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p.10 #2 · p.10 #2 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


Steve Spencer wrote:
Now as to whether that is perception or preference I don't know how you can really make that distinction.


Perception: Do I see edges in the bokeh? Does the lens have character?
Preference: Do I like edges in the bokeh? Do I like character in a lens?




May 02, 2014 at 01:50 AM
U.C.
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p.10 #3 · p.10 #3 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


rscheffler: I shall do a test with both foreground and background bokeh.
About the framing: the EX isn't a real 50mm, it's more 47mm, so it has a wider framing.
With the Zeiss I accidentally turned the ballhead a bit, but tried to turn it to it's original postition.



May 02, 2014 at 04:56 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.10 #4 · p.10 #4 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART




alundeb wrote:
Perception: Do I see edges in the bokeh? Does the lens have character?
Preference: Do I like edges in the bokeh? Do I like character in a lens?


That sounds simple, but when you talk about character is that perception or preference? It seems to me it is a bit of both. And I never talked about edges in the bokeh. I talked about the bokeh being edgy. Again like character that seems to be both perception and preference. Said another way when I judge bokeh I judge the image as a whole (a better word in German is Gestalt), and in judging a Gestalt the whole does not equal the sum of its part, which makes dinstinguishing between perception and preference not really possible.



May 02, 2014 at 08:36 AM
U.C.
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p.10 #5 · p.10 #5 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


Did some shots (I need to clean the sensor.... )

The first 2 shots are highlight bokeh shots, the rest in the serie are some random flower photos with fore- and background bokeh.



May 03, 2014 at 10:24 AM
alundeb
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p.10 #6 · p.10 #6 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


Steve Spencer wrote:
That sounds simple, but when you talk about character is that perception or preference? It seems to me it is a bit of both. And I never talked about edges in the bokeh. I talked about the bokeh being edgy. Again like character that seems to be both perception and preference. Said another way when I judge bokeh I judge the image as a whole (a better word in German is Gestalt), and in judging a Gestalt the whole does not equal the sum of its part, which makes dinstinguishing between perception and preference not really possible.


Of course it is possible to distinguish between perception and preference also when judging the Gestalt of a lens. It happens all the time. People describe and agree on the character of a lens, but still have different preferences.



May 05, 2014 at 02:16 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.10 #7 · p.10 #7 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART




alundeb wrote:
Of course it is possible to distinguish between perception and preference also when judging the Gestalt of a lens. It happens all the time. People describe and agree on the character of a lens, but still have different preferences.

This is a philosophical debate we won't solve here. In my field it was debated for about 10 years with no clear agreement. Suffice it to say I am on the side of those who think preferences affect all perceptions and the simple idea that we perceive and then evaluate is a construction we make of our experience and not what actually occurs.



May 05, 2014 at 07:11 AM
alundeb
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p.10 #8 · p.10 #8 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


I agree that philosophical debates will not be solved here. There are many factors that influence perception and preference. It is my view that cross-influence doesn't mean that they are still not separable thoguh.

On example regarding bokeh, illustrating the difference, is bokeh color fringing (magenta / green). A lot of people don't see it in their images until someone points it out. Then they see it and may dislike it. But if they like the bokeh from start and haven't perceived the color fringing, that doesn't mean color fringing is part of their preference. Typical lenses: ZE/ZF MP 2/100 and ZE/ZF Distagon 1.4/35



May 05, 2014 at 07:24 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.10 #9 · p.10 #9 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


alundeb wrote:
I agree that philosophical debates will not be solved here. There are many factors that influence perception and preference. It is my view that cross-influence doesn't mean that they are still not separable thoguh.

On example regarding bokeh, illustrating the difference, is bokeh color fringing (magenta / green). A lot of people don't see it in their images until someone points it out. Then they see it and may dislike it. But if they like the bokeh from start and haven't perceived the color fringing, that doesn't mean color fringing is part of their preference. Typical lenses: ZE/ZF MP 2/100
...Show more

Well cross influence does mean to those who hold my perspective that you can't separate them. Everything is both perception and preference. The question usually devolves into is there anything that is pure perception that isn't also preference. Those who hold my perspective basically believe there isn't any such thing, but of course it is hard to prove that something doesn't exist.

The example you provide is not convincing to someone who holds my perspective. Even though the person did not see colour fringing originally and then did see it later does not mean that their later seeing of colour fringing isn't affected by preference. From my perspective it would be affected by preference. And of course their earlier non-perception of colour fringing wasn't affected by anything, but that doesn't mean what they "saw" in the bokeh wasn't affected by preference. It was from my perspective.

Can you see why we won't solve this? You can bring up as many examples as you want but from my perspective I will expect whatever people are "seeing" is a product of both perception and preference without any clear way to distinguish between the two, so trying to separate them isn't very useful--at least from my perspective. So let's not try to solve this philosophical debate and end it here as it really is off topic.



May 05, 2014 at 07:50 AM
alundeb
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p.10 #10 · p.10 #10 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


The problem with your perspective is that it disregards a distinction that is both useful, possible and necessary to keep a good discussion about bokeh, just because the distinction is not 100% clean cut.



May 05, 2014 at 08:24 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.10 #11 · p.10 #11 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART



alundeb wrote:
The problem with your perspective is that it disregards a distinction that is both useful, possible and necessary to keep a good discussion about bokeh, just because the distinction is not 100% clean cut.

The problem with your perspective is that you fail to recognize that whether the distinction is useful, possible, or necessary is exactly the philosophical debate and just because you assert that the distinction is those things doesn't make it so. Can't we just drop this and agree that what one likes in bokeh is subjective?



May 05, 2014 at 09:29 AM
alundeb
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p.10 #12 · p.10 #12 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


Steve Spencer wrote:
The problem with your perspective is that you fail to recognize that whether the distinction is useful, possible, or necessary is exactly the philosophical debate and just because you assert that the distinction is those things doesn't make it so. Can't we just drop this and agree that what one likes in bokeh is subjective?


No, I cannot stop make the distinction just because you don't agree on it. I will keep on talking about what we see and can describe in the bokeh (which is both subjective and objective), and if we like it or not (which is subjective).



May 06, 2014 at 07:49 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.10 #13 · p.10 #13 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


You can talk about whatever you want. No one is stopping you. I guess I was just trying to highlight what I think we do agree on--that evaluation of bokeh is subjective. What we will just have to agree to disagree on is whether it can ever be objective. I think any further discussion of that issue is pointless. So if you want to talk about that with someone else that is fine with me, but I think I will bow out of the discussion at this point.


May 06, 2014 at 08:47 AM
snapsy
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p.10 #14 · p.10 #14 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


A user on canonrumors posted a bunch of comparison photos between the Sigma and 50L. Lots of short distance images for bokeh comparison:

Original Post
Post with DropBox link for full-sized images



May 06, 2014 at 11:02 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.10 #15 · p.10 #15 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


Just saw this busy bokeh sample in the 50A thread in the Canon forum:

http://i57./2j0cg3n.jpg




May 09, 2014 at 11:31 PM
Toothwalker
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p.10 #16 · p.10 #16 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


wayne seltzer wrote:
Just saw this busy bokeh sample in the 50A thread in the Canon forum:


That is not busy bokeh but a blurred busy object.



May 10, 2014 at 04:42 AM
johnctharp
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p.10 #17 · p.10 #17 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


Toothwalker wrote:
That is not busy bokeh but a blurred busy object.


That's what I see too- the only 'business' is in the grass in the bottom 1/5th or 1/6th of the image, before it gets completely creamed out.



May 10, 2014 at 01:22 PM
U.C.
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p.10 #18 · p.10 #18 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


It can cream:

_MG_69512 by Universal Creations, on Flickr

And it can pop:

_MG_69513 by Universal Creations, on Flickr



May 10, 2014 at 02:04 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.10 #19 · p.10 #19 · SLRGear reviewed the Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART


Well, IMO, the bokeh takes away from the shot (I am referring to the one Wayne posted) rather than enhances it. It may well be the background or more generally the composition, but opening up the lens and blurring the background doesn't work here, IMO. Maybe another lens would do better; maybe not, but it is a distracting blurred background. In the comparisons I have seen here that UC posted, I like the Rokkor better than the Sigma Art, and in the comparisons that snapsy posted I like the Canon 50 f/1.2L better than the Sigma Art, but maybe that is just me. I don't think, however, that the Sigma is worse than most 50mm lenses. In my view it is just not among the best in bokeh as it is in sharpness, distortion, and vignetting.


May 10, 2014 at 02:11 PM
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