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E-session - friend wants ALL photos
  
 
D. Diggler
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


leethecam wrote:
They have no right to expect anything, whether you are a pro or not. A gift is just that... a gift.

If you'd given them a car, would they have the right to demand a Ferrari. I think not.


Right! They get what they get!

Whatsoever the original poster provides out of the goodness of his heart, they should be grateful.

They can only rightly make demands if they'd have PAID someone.



Apr 05, 2014 at 10:25 AM
SGallant
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


ashton lamont wrote:
I can kinda see their point of view now that I've browsed the gallery. The urban wall art backdrops are all well and good for some use but there is a lack of alternative less busy backgrounds. They do rather dominate each of the compositions. Again the bridge is all well and good as a location but it makes for an overly busy background. As a "client" (even a free one) I think I would have expected a greater variety of locations bearing in mind all the buzzing around you all did, and i would have appreciated a good
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Pete, I respectfully disagree with you here. We have already beat the term gift to death so I am not going to go there again. Very simply put though, if they didn't like the gift, they should have thanked them and just gone and paid for their own session.

I think these shots are absolutely representative of what one can expect from a Brooklyn engagement shoot. And telling him to shoot like it's for the taste of a conservative middle america parent is another miss. Brooklyn is pretty far from middle america. Where he was shooting happens to be a very hip and trendy upcoming area.



Apr 05, 2014 at 01:25 PM
ashton lamont
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


Sean, it seems to me that many members have jumped to the rather hasty - and dare I say - lazy - conclusion that the bride to be is an ungrateful sociopath who should be swatted away and good riddance.

I'm taking the thread as an excuse to break off from editing that I don't want to do :- ) To try and figure out how there could be such as wide divergence of understanding between her and the OP.

We already know that she was not previously regarded in that light as she is a long term friend of the OP's wife, they travelled a significant distance to meet, and were put up overnight. None of that reconciles well with the wife having any prior knowledge of her character.

So there must be something else going on that the OP is not aware of.

We've already established that they visited multiple locations over the course quite a long shoot, and the subjects would expect - rightly or wrongly - a larger number of keepers from the session. But that wouldn't alone explain her confrontational reaction any more than labelling her some kind of psycho.

It may be that the subject said she liked the existing set but in her mind was being polite. What she really wanted - and thought she had put a lot of time and effort into getting - was rather different. She may be expressing her disappointment and frustration; she may want to satisfy herself that the rejects don't have any rather more restrained shots. Who knows.

Thats where my point about also shooting in a more mainstream style comes in. They are insurance shots. You don't even need to use them in the first edition of the gallery if you feel they send out the wrong message about your style, just have a few in reserve as insurance. This used to happen all the time when reportage / photojournalist style was all the rage. The big dogs would bang on about never shooting groups, never shooting this, never shooting that, but when on real weddings of course they would do some (in the main). Most had learned that lesson the hard way. Other photographers swallowed the "never rule" whole and would be endlessly posting about dissatisfied clients, parents, etc.

When I saw the backdrops of primary colour type street art I thought oh no not that old thing again. That doesn't look hip to me it looks hackneyed (Grafitti - yawn. Abandoned factory - yawn. Railway line - yawn). And its borderline copying someone else's vision anyway if that art is prominent in the composition.

Simply repositioning the subjects for a few seconds with a neutral unrecognisable background might have saved the day. I'm not saying have him pushing her on a swing under an apple tree with a family labrador at their feet and fluffy white clouds in an azure prairie sky as the background :- )

Finally it may be that the subjects believed the OP and his wife to already be in debt to them for some previous favour that the subjects feel was not repaid by this set of photos. Something nothing to do with the shoot but all to do with the two girls.

Right back to work. But if anyone can offer me an excuse to break off again - gratefully accepted!

Pete



Apr 05, 2014 at 03:40 PM
eric chang
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


ashton lamont wrote:
Sean, it seems to me that many members have jumped to the rather hasty - and dare I say - lazy - conclusion that the bride to be is an ungrateful sociopath who should be swatted away and good riddance.

I'm taking the thread as an excuse to break off from editing that I don't want to do :- ) To try and figure out how there could be such as wide divergence of understanding between her and the OP.

We already know that she was not previously regarded in that light as she is a long term friend of the
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Hi Pete,

Thank you for your perspective. I really do appreciate it and respect your thoughts, although I do disagree with some points, mainly because I have the history with them.

To point, she and her fiance are both very much Type A's and used to pushing to get what they want; one's a surgeon and the other runs a consulting company. She especially has a habit of escalating and being antagonistic until she gets what she wants. Both my wife and I knew this beforehand, but still volunteered to do the shoot as a gift to our friend.

As to the shoot itself, it was the couple who wanted the edgy street art look; I suggested the Brooklyn Bridge, and they both stated that it was passé and common, but obliged me anyway. They repeatedly mentioned leaving areas I thought looked fun and interesting and returning to where cool looking graffiti was. (They wanted to get pictures with Banksy's art, but it started raining heavily). I was unable to get a casual or candid moment out of them, despite our efforts to loosen the tone a little. This, as well as your suggestions for 'safe/insurance shots' is definitely a takeaway I will remember in the future and take to heart.

To your final comment, there currently was no debt to be paid. This was originally just a chance for all of us to spend some time together, take pictures, and generally have a good time. The night before was their engagement party (the reason why we drove up, stayed the night), so it felt natural to bring my camera to try to do a nice deed.

Again, thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. While I may not agree with every statement, I will respect them since you took the time and effort to reply to these posts.




Apr 05, 2014 at 04:14 PM
D. Diggler
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


eric chang wrote:
She especially has a habit of escalating and being antagonistic until she gets what she wants.


Sounds like a real sweetheart.



Apr 06, 2014 at 05:48 AM
 

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James R
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


I believe you define what gift you give, not your "friends". That ends the conversation, and probably the friendship. Best not to entertain any other discussions with them on this subject.


Apr 07, 2014 at 06:07 AM
Tom Dix
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos




The photo friend zone typically sux.

I have friends who are professionals and have done work for me, never have I asked for a discount.
You owe them what you provided. You are a terrific friend.

Next time, get them a toaster.



Apr 07, 2014 at 05:02 PM
eric chang
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


Update:

over the weekend I reached out the Olive branch to the couple, stating that while I understood their frustations and concerns, as a professional I do let let my non-keepers out into the open. I did cull a few more pictures for them, but deleted the rest so there would be no more discussions on the topic.

I offered two 'peaceful' options on how to resolve the situation... a) they agree with the pictures I originally delivered, I get to post on social media with their blessing, and everything going on as if this disagreement never happened. b) pretend the entire shoot never happened. no one will ever see the pictures.

There's a few more antagonistic solutions as well, but I'm trying not to dwell there. I'd love to get this resolved soon, and get rid of the bad vibes of this ordeal.

Let's see how this goes!

Thanks for the thoughts,perspectives,opinions, and sympathies, guys.



Apr 07, 2014 at 06:20 PM
hendrikm
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


Geez, I should bring some pitchforks next time I visit the forum. Letīs burn them on the stake ;-)

Back to the original topic:
I had this issue ones, even before I had started culling (next day) the groom called me, they wanted to see all photos. I agreed IF THEY choose the 500 pics from their wedding. I put a big watermark over each image and gave them screen resolution. Within a few weeks theyīd chosen the images for the "Thank you" cards. I few more month (they moved, build a house) they chose another 250 images. To my astonishment no images of the bridal shoot were selected (and I was quite proud of some of them). Itīs now nearly a year since the wedding, and they still havenīt chosen more. Theyīve paid already, so it doesnīt bother me.

I learned a few things:
a) A bride/groom might like other images than we photographers do.
b) Iīm still unsure about some of their choices, but if they like the images...
c) Yes, Iīd still do it, if itīs a request

Back to the original post:
Iīd give them all the images. You have nothing to lose and nothing to win. Tell them not to mention your name, if you are afraid of these images.
But just realize how much time and energy youīve put into this thing already and how much bad feelings are created. Just upload them and forget about it. Post YOUR selection on facebook and if they ask you to shoot the wedding, you still can decide wether you are already booked or not.

Thatīs the easiest way out. And I like easy, no bad feelings ;-)



Apr 07, 2014 at 07:57 PM
SGallant
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · E-session - friend wants ALL photos


hendrikm wrote:
Geez, I should bring some pitchforks next time I visit the forum. Letīs burn them on the stake ;-)

Back to the original topic:
I had this issue ones, even before I had started culling (next day) the groom called me, they wanted to see all photos. I agreed IF THEY choose the 500 pics from their wedding. I put a big watermark over each image and gave them screen resolution. Within a few weeks theyīd chosen the images for the "Thank you" cards. I few more month (they moved, build a house) they chose another 250 images. To my astonishment no
...Show more
Are you responding to the correct thread?



Apr 07, 2014 at 08:15 PM
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