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Archive 2014 · Alternatives to PP

  
 
anthonysemone
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Alternatives to PP


Since my PP account got hacked - pulled $ directly out of my bank account and deposited it in what appeared to be my PP account - I decided to bag PP and have done so. What alternatives have you all been using, if any of you have been. I'm looking for a source that I can use my credit card for funds for fraud protection. Any recommendations? TIA


Mar 27, 2014 at 04:54 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Alternatives to PP


If you need to fund the purchase with a credit card then Amazon Payments and Google Wallet, although at first reading it doesn't appear these services provide the same level of buyer protection as Paypal, so FM'ers buying from you may not look favorably at those. There are of course plenty of no-fee alternatives if credit cards aren't involved but you've previously indicated you don't care much for those


Mar 27, 2014 at 05:41 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Alternatives to PP


Snapsy, thanks for your reply. I've applied for Google Wallet and I'll check out Amazon Payments. My credit card has got as much protection from fraudulent transactions as I reckon can be had in these days and times, so we'll see how it flies with GW. I've automatically got a Wells Fargo SurePay transfer that will work for pretty senior folks whom I comfortable dealing with, folks like you, Will, Curtis, Danpb, H00ligan, etc., pretty much folks I've dealt with here before or whose reputation, post count, longevity on FM, etc. is easily established. Thanks again


Mar 27, 2014 at 05:57 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Alternatives to PP


Thinking out loud, I wonder if a peer-managed escrow system might work. It would utilize long-time, trusted members serving as the escrow agent. The buyer would send non-rescindable cash-equivalent funds to the escrow agent. The seller would then ship the camera insured to the buyer. The buyer has maybe 3 days to test/review the condition as matching what the seller advertised. If all goes well then the escrow agent releases the funds to the seller. If there is a dispute then a peer-review thread could be created here to discuss the matter. A final decision would be made by a random selection of trusted members (random to prevent favoritism toward particular buyers and sellers), and that decision would be binding and followed by the escrow agent. Any thoughts?


Mar 27, 2014 at 06:18 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Alternatives to PP


Intriguing.... well beyond my pay grade, however, but I'll betcha there's a bunch of folks on here who would be able to contribute informative responses


Mar 27, 2014 at 06:31 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Alternatives to PP


snapsy wrote:
Thinking out loud, I wonder if a peer-managed escrow system might work. It would utilize long-time, trusted members serving as the escrow agent. The buyer would send non-rescindable cash-equivalent funds to the escrow agent. The seller would then ship the camera insured to the buyer. The buyer has maybe 3 days to test/review the condition as matching what the seller advertised. If all goes well then the escrow agent releases the funds to the seller. If there is a dispute then a peer-review thread could be created here to discuss the matter. A final decision would be made by a
...Show more

I thought this was called "eBay".



Mar 28, 2014 at 06:45 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Alternatives to PP


jcolwell wrote:
I thought this was called "eBay".


eBay doesn't have a panel of people who know about photographic equipment, and they almost always indiscriminately rule in favor of the buyer because that's better for their business. And eBay charges 10%+ in fees.



Mar 28, 2014 at 09:16 AM
Sarsfield
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Alternatives to PP


My bank is endorsing Popmoney. No fees at all to send money from my bank but free for requesting money or 95 cents for up to $2000 from the Popmoney site. I used it to send money to my daughter and she had the money in her account in one hour.

https://www.popmoney.com/index.html



Mar 28, 2014 at 02:20 PM
CGrindahl
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Alternatives to PP


Thanks for the vote of confidence Tony. I've facilitated purchases for a number of folks who participate in the Manual Focus Nikon Glass thread in the Nikon forum, the most recent being this week. I'd told folks on the thread about a lens I recommend and a participant from Australia tried to buy it but seller would only ship to the U.S. He asked if I'd make the deal happen. Since I don't know this man, I asked that he advance sufficient money through Paypal for me to purchase the lens, pay for shipping to my home and for shipping to Australia. He sent the money immediately and I bought the lens. As soon as it arrives I'll ship it on to him. If the cost in total is less than what he sent me, I'll simply drop it in the box.

Of course, I do this on that thread because I'm a big fan of those lenses and want to help folks who are interested in exploring them. When I've know someone, I've even advanced the funds on the promise I'd be repaid. I always have. I think FM at its best, results in folks lending a hand when they can.

I use Paypal when I buy from E-Bay. Otherwise I tend to use a personal check. But I'll only do that with someone I trust. That means, of course, that I tend to do transactions with folks who've demonstrated their trustworthiness. I'm well past the time when I feel a need to squeeze a penny. I've done that and actually been quite successful at doing so. But in the long run, I'd rather do deals in a way that allows me to relax a bit.

I'll follow this thread because I'm definitely interested in effective and inexpensive ways of transferring money. Thanks Tony... and good luck sorting it out.



Mar 28, 2014 at 04:10 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Alternatives to PP


You're very welcome, Curtis. The MF board you created and the contributors to it reflect your kindness and generosity, not to mention the exceptional photographic competency you and the rest of the gang there demonstrate.

I've just signed up for Google Wallet and Amazon payments and for folks I trust I've got Wells Fargo SurePay (sic) I'm browsing now for a D700 and I'll be using one of these methods so I'll have some feedback in 2-3 weeks.



Mar 28, 2014 at 05:16 PM
CGrindahl
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Alternatives to PP


Tony... one should never sell a D700... Good luck finding one.


Mar 28, 2014 at 06:54 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Alternatives to PP


Ah, indeed so, Curtis and at my age I don't have all that much time left to live and learn


Mar 28, 2014 at 07:15 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Alternatives to PP


...
jcolwell wrote:
I thought this was called "eBay".

snapsy wrote:
eBay doesn't have a panel of people who know about photographic equipment, and they almost always indiscriminately rule in favor of the buyer because that's better for their business. And eBay charges 10%+ in fees.


Do you think a reliable escrow service would be free?



Mar 29, 2014 at 07:19 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Alternatives to PP


jcolwell wrote:
...

Do you think a reliable escrow service would be free?


A peer-managed one here would be.



Mar 29, 2014 at 09:07 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Alternatives to PP


jcolwell wrote:
...
Do you think a reliable escrow service would be free?

snapsy wrote:
A peer-managed one here would be.


How would a peer-managed escrow system manage financial risk?

Suppose a deal for an expensive lens falls through, and the seller claims that it has been damaged when it's returned to him. Or, suppose a buyer pays by a "non-rescindable" method like a bank eTransfer, and later claims fraud. I expect the bank would go after the seller and the escrow service.

TANSTAAFL.



Mar 29, 2014 at 09:14 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Alternatives to PP


jcolwell wrote:
How would a peer-managed escrow system manage financial risk?

Suppose a deal for an expensive lens falls through, and the seller claims that it has been damaged when it's returned to him. Or, suppose a buyer pays by a "non-rescindable" method like a bank eTransfer, and later claims fraud. I expect the bank would go after the seller and the escrow service.

TANSTAAFL.


The same way risk is managed today for private transactions here on FM.



Mar 29, 2014 at 09:34 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Alternatives to PP


jcolwell wrote:
...
Do you think a reliable escrow service would be free?

snapsy wrote:
A peer-managed one here would be.

jcolwell wrote:
How would a peer-managed escrow system manage financial risk?

Suppose a deal for an expensive lens falls through, and the seller claims that it has been damaged when it's returned to him. Or, suppose a buyer pays by a "non-rescindable" method like a bank eTransfer, and later claims fraud. I expect the bank would go after the seller and the escrow service.

TANSTAAFL.

snapsy wrote:
The same way risk is managed today for private transactions here on FM.


That's currently managed by individuals, according to their personal preferences. There would have to be a written agreement on risk management between participants in the peer-managed escrow process, or there would be no risk management.



Mar 29, 2014 at 09:39 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Alternatives to PP


jcolwell wrote:
That's currently managed by individuals, according to their personal preferences. There would have to be a written agreement on risk management between participants in the peer-managed escrow process, or there would be no risk management.


Naturally there would be an agreement of some form and participants would have to digitally sign off on it to demonstrate their acceptance of the agreement. Participation would be entirely voluntary.



Mar 29, 2014 at 09:49 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Alternatives to PP


jcolwell wrote:
...
Do you think a reliable escrow service would be free?

snapsy wrote:
A peer-managed one here would be.

jcolwell wrote:
How would a peer-managed escrow system manage financial risk?

Suppose a deal for an expensive lens falls through, and the seller claims that it has been damaged when it's returned to him. Or, suppose a buyer pays by a "non-rescindable" method like a bank eTransfer, and later claims fraud. I expect the bank would go after the seller and the escrow service.

TANSTAAFL.

snapsy wrote:
The same way risk is managed today for private transactions here on FM.

jcolwell wrote:
That's currently managed by individuals, according to their personal preferences. There would have to be a written agreement on risk management between participants in the peer-managed escrow process, or there would be no risk management.

snapsy wrote:
Naturally there would be an agreement of some form and participants would have to digitally sign off on it to demonstrate their acceptance of the agreement. Participation would be entirely voluntary.


That's precisely my question. How would risk be managed? IOW, what would the agreement say?

Anyway, I expect Fred would like to have some say in this matter. It would be wise to get his support for the concept, before spending a lot of effort on the details.



Mar 29, 2014 at 09:56 AM
drive_75
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Alternatives to PP


Too much hassle and trouble with escrow for few hundreds or even a thousand or two. I bought and sold here quite a bit too and I just wouldn't use the service. I tried to do my best to deal with people that have good feed backs and look like they are easy to deal with. When I sell, I always try to be reasonable. If someone is unhappy with my item, I would just refund them minus the shipping/ ins. Having escrow will just add more cost and possibly increase problem. I think the successful transaction here on FM is much higher then the unsuccessful ones. I don't have a real number but looking at the feed backs, one have to assume.


Mar 29, 2014 at 10:17 AM
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