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Archive 2014 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits

  
 
fstopperdown
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


How many use Alien Bee's for outdoor portraits?

I'm concentrating on two projects outside my freelance newspaper assignments...

Mainly OCF street portraits for play and experimentation.

Building upon the street portraits, with the ultimate goal of family portraits (mostly outdoor) for pay.

I've gone the budget route with Youngnu triggers and old SB 24 generation flashes.

Speedlight work for the street portraits...when I'm not dropping them to the ground from 5 feet... TWICE (The YN's have no screw down capability).

While I struggled with some learning curves on my new setup... added to the aggravation was having to haul around a lightstand and a wobbly flash head, my thought was why not go Alien bees when I do family portraits?

I think my light stands are Manfrotto 368's and can hold 5 pounds. They are pretty good for what they do, but iffy with a wind and umbrella. Should I get heavier versions?

I thought about doing weddings again, and had been leaning towards a pair of SB900's which I only wanted to couple with the PW Mini's... for a fraction of the cost, I could buy a fairly kick butt Alien Bee setup.

I will have an assistant to help manage things on my family portrait sessions... one reason I'm thinking a pair of Alien Bees, battery pack etc....

Thank you for taking the time to wade thru my long winded post. Any thoughts on topic or off topic or other things to consider would be appreciated.




Mar 16, 2014 at 11:49 AM
friscoron
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits



I have both setups, and it varies. If I'm moving around, for example, going from one setup to another, I can't be dragging my Einsteins around with me. Just too much equipment. But if I want to light someone up and bring in the sky, then I need the power of the Einsteins. When I want I want to shoot high-speed sync, it's back to the speed lights.

But the bottom line is this: As long as you have OCF, I think you can make any situation work. Whether it's the AlienBees or speedlights, it doesn't necessarily matter as long as you know how to use them well.



Mar 16, 2014 at 12:08 PM
John Caldwell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


What do you all use for power supplies in your outside work?

John Caldwell



Mar 16, 2014 at 12:11 PM
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


Stopper, I'm in the same place as you, except that I'm only a serious hobbyist. (on a budget, but I'm trying to ignore that part!) Here's where I'm at right now:

I definitely want to be able to overcome the sun, at least when the sun is not in the shot.

I do NOT want to have two completely different setups, for indoors and outdoors.

I will likely never have an assistant.

And one more important issue: I shoot almost exclusively alt glass on a 5D, so I'm trying to avoid the darkness (and significant cost) of a set of ND filters. That means using HSS with several speedlights combined, or Pocket Wizard's Hypersync.

I'd love to also have E-TTL, which I personally think is a life-saver outdoors, but that's probably not going to be possible.
=========================================================

Let the games begin:

As far as portability, the Einsteins are really no larger than an on-stand speedlight, since most of the bulk is in the stand, ring, modifiers, etc. Cost is also not so bad now, with the mini-vagabond pack. Maybe $750 for a basic Einstein kit, before modifers. -but no HSS (and certainly no E-TTL) So I looked at other options, was not happy, and came back to the Einsteins when I read that you can have Hyper Sync with the PW wireless system.

Except, yesterday I found out that PW's Hypersync is basically worthless when paired with the Einsteins, as their duration is too short. You can't go higher than 1/250 ! With a Ranger kit, (and my 5D) you can go to about 1/1,000, but the Rangers are out of my budget, especially since I want one dedicated pack per head. (Outdoors I don't want to be running wires all over the place.)

And that's the end of the Einsteins. That leaves only Cheetah and Quantum. The advantage with Quantum is E-TTL. The disadvantage is that the only Quantum unit with enough power (barely) is the 400 w/s X5dR, and with its special pack it costs ~ 1450. - And still not enough power for some situations, especially in HSS.
------------------------------------

So I reach the final solution, for me, which is expensive, but will work:

The Cheetah CL-360.
They are 300 w/s bare-bulb speedlights. They support HSS (no E-TTL) and have great little battery packs that only cost about $200, with $100 spare batteries.

My plan is to eventually have two CL-360's, and my current 580EXII speedlight / RSS bracket for on-camera. Indoors, this will give me all the key light I'll ever need, plus the on-camea fill, plus a hair or background light. (All supplemented, if needed, by a stand-mounted reflector.) The on-camera RRS bracket is quite high, & I always use a small partial-bounce reflector, so I get quite nice results.

Outdoors, in bright sun, I will put both Cheetah's into one bracket (not sure which one is best yet) using a regular speedring and standard modifiers. That's 600 w/s at x-sync speed, and independent reports say they only lose ~ one stop (max) of light in their HSS mode, plus that's the worst-case number. At "middle" shutter speeds their should be even more "effective" flash power. So, In a typical outdoor situation, I'd have at least 400 w/s.

The speedlight would still be on-camera, for fill, giving me a very respectable 2-light setup. Plus, I still have E-TTL for any time I am only using one flash. note: It's possible that the speedlight will not be powerful enough to properly fill the 2-cheetah key light when they are at full power, in which case I'll have to also get a CL-180 for on-camera, and use that only outdoors (freeing up the speedlight for something else, I guess) - but I can't afford that right now, (another $700) so it's not in the plan.

I will then buy a good light meter, as I have to say goodbye to E-TTL (sob, wail....)

I haven't decided on the wireless system yet, but I of course want some kind of 3-group commander, and it must support HSS. Probably the Odin, or maybe the Yongnuo. Maybe even Cheetah's own system, that they bundle with the CL-360, but that looks pretty cheap.

I can't really afford all this, but I'm trying to forget that & do it anyway. I can't see ANY less expensive option that will work in all situations.
----------------------

So that's my plan as of today. Ask me again in 2 days and who knows? - but food for thought.


Edited on Mar 24, 2014 at 12:51 PM · View previous versions



Mar 22, 2014 at 12:35 PM
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


As for stands, you mentioned using umbrellas. Personally, I think that's crazy outdoors, no matter how beefy the stand, esp without an assistant. Unless you plan to use spikes, or massive leg-weights.

I have this weird idea to cut holes into an umbrella, and reinforce them with grommets. Theoretically that would let some wind pass through, and maybe not cause too much light loss. - But then again, how often would you need umbrellas outside? Large group shots at night? You could probably just use reflectors, no?

-----------------------------------



And BTW - shouldn't this be in the lighting forum?



Mar 22, 2014 at 12:40 PM
AlexF
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


I use elichrom quadra pretty often. But speedligts more often Quadra would be very similar to using alien bee with a battery pack just more convenient. Mostly the choice depends on what look you are going for... If size matter and ability to overpower sunlight is not very important then speed lights are easier to use. While speed light can overpower the sunlight in a lot of situations they can not do it with modifiers... Keep in mind if you live anywhere where you get a lot of wind using umbrellas is difficult outdoors. Another part of equation is that you can drop speedligths on a lightstand many, many times and they will still work ... Dropping alien bees light will at least require a new bulbs.


Mar 23, 2014 at 07:16 PM
swordfishphoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


I do too much on location to cart around monolights. If you can get away with it, it's much easier to use them, but much harder and not as versatile. Speedlights are small and light. Great for shoving 5 into a backpack. Since I'm too poor and too untalented to have an assistant, it works best for me. If you have someone that wants to wheel around a system like that, and if they have collapsible softboxes then I say do it. More control. I can't afford it though.


Mar 24, 2014 at 01:39 AM
Tinstafl
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


I too have an inside set and my Nikon speedlights. I use them outside as one backpack will carry everything. Also the CLS is great if the light changes and you and a buddy are shooting. I just uses the on camera flash and we each had a speedlight so we both had two light setup. We wanted to overpower the sun a bit and it can be done with two speedlights and afternoon light.




Mar 24, 2014 at 05:43 AM
fstopperdown
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


Thank you for the responses. I'm still pondering the AB's....

I tooled around a couple of more times solo with my SB24/Manfrotto wireless setup with better success. Electrical tape did wonders for locking down the SB and Young-nu wireless trigger.

The few street portraits I did came out OK. A bit more time with the Sekonic 758dr and managing the flash and stand and I'll be pretty efficient.

I have a freebie/Uncle Bob family portrait session with an old classmate coming up around Easter, and I plan to iron out my workflow with my wife next weekend or two.

For now, I'm going to stick to my existing setup.



Mar 30, 2014 at 04:51 PM
Poff Photo
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


For your outdoor work, why not consider a beauty dish? Not as likely to catch the wind as an umbrella and if you want to soften the light you can sock them...


Mar 30, 2014 at 05:36 PM
fstopperdown
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


I didn't consider a beauty dish. I will certainly investigate.



Mar 30, 2014 at 06:54 PM
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Alien Bee vs Speedlight for outdoor portraits


@fstopper,

If you are still on the fence, have you considered the Cheetah bare-bulb "speedlights" ?

They fall about in-between the size of a regular speedlight & an Einstein with pack, but you get 180 & 360 w/s and with a bare bulb, which is much better for modifiers. They also offer HSS, with (reportedly) only one stop of light loss above x-sync.

The cost of the 360 with pack is almost as much as an Einstein + mini vagabond, and it's about identical if you also get a speedring adapter mount. (which I recommend if you will eventually use monolights indoors.)
However, the Einsteins do NOT play nice with Hypersync, while the Cheetahs have a very well-implemented HSS.

----------------

Another option, if Hypersync matters to you, is the farily-inexpensive "Jinbei Discovery" monolights. (import only, I think.) They are said to have very long durations, and are well built. They are also fairly compact, and can run on a small battery pack just like the Einstein. The only downside is service & parts.

It's a very tough call. One I'm struggling with myself right now.



Mar 31, 2014 at 02:14 PM





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