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Archive 2014 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?

  
 
joelconner
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


I have never used a beauty dish before, but I have been planning to pick up one for years. We just closed on a new studio house, so I will finally have the studio space I need.

So...how much difference in light quality do the different dishes have? Is the difference one more of build quality/durability/functionality, or is the light actually different from the different ones? It seems a pretty straightforward piece of equipment, so I would think (probably incorrectly) that the light would be similar from most.

I am using PCB lights (Einsteins and AB's)

Thanks!



Mar 14, 2014 at 11:21 AM
colinm
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


The light's actually different. Whether that matters to you or which one you prefer, on the other hand, is entirely a matter of personal taste.

Dishes of a very similar design will look similar, but there's a lot of variation in design. The PCB dish will look similar to a Profoto dish, but you'll get a different look from a Chimera dish, and a totally different look altogether from any of Mola's dishes (which themselves offer several different looks).



Mar 14, 2014 at 11:34 AM
lroger
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


You may find this to prove useful; this site contains a 3-part series on beauty dishes
http://thelightingacademy.com/blog/



Mar 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM
joelconner
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


awesome...thanks, guys. much appreciated!


Mar 14, 2014 at 01:00 PM
leethecam
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


You'll find differences depending on finish, optional extras and shape.

Many dishes are quite shallow, but the latest Bowens BD has a much deeper bowl which gives a more focused look.

The Profoto has a flat back which changes how the light is projected, and in my opinion makes the opal glass centre spot almost a requirement compared to the metal standard.

Some dishes have the centre block quite close to the bulb, some are designed for the actual strobe heads for best results. How the light reflects off and spills around this centre spot will change the experience quite dramatically. Position of the tube in the BD can effect the end result.

How people actually aim their BD's will change their perception of results. You'll find some will aim direct at the subject, whilst others will use more of the bottom of the dish.

Supplied socks will give different results. Many are quite heavy diffusion, whilst the standard Profoto one is very light.

And of course different sizes and finishes will give varying results...

Now... will these differences give dramatically different results...? Probably not. But when I had a generic BD on my Bowens I never quite cared for the result, but when I got the new Bowens BD I started to fall in love wit the BD effect. When I changed to Profoto I was very dissapointed with the D1 / BD combination, until I used the dome and opal centre spot. So the differences were enough for me!

There are some that swear by their Mola dishes. I believe they need careful use to get the best results, but fans say they're the best (although after spending £600 on a dish I bet they'd not dare say otherwise... ha...) I've never played with one but I'd love to see the differences and how the light pattern works.

What I will say is that yo can't just throw a BD on and expect great results. They need careful use and lots of testing to see what each one will do for you to get the most out of them. I always smile when I see someone using a BD 20 ft from the subject. I don't think they've quite got the hang of what a BD actually does...!

Biggest difference is finish. White is going to be more forgiving, but silver can give dramatic results. I'd recommend starting with white.

Chances are you'll end up with a few dishes before you find your favourite baby. I wonder if I'll ever succumb to the Mola fetish... I wonder if I'll ever see one at a UK trade show... grrr...



Mar 14, 2014 at 02:07 PM
lonestardiver
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


Great info...


Mar 15, 2014 at 11:36 PM
armorris
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


I love my white Mola Demis. Cover the center metal mesh diffuser with foil tape (so light from the bulb reflects only, rather than reflects AND sifts thru the mesh, and set the mesh super close to the bulb. Awesome punchy yet soft light.


Mar 26, 2014 at 05:40 PM
Deezie
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


I always smile when I see someone using a BD 20 ft from the subject. I don't think they've quite got the hang of what a BD actually does...!

A beauty dish is not exclusively a key light. It can be used very effectively as both a fill and a rim light. I have also used it as a key light as far as 8-10 feet away for full body shots.

Here's a Mola used about 8 feet from the model, with Einstein strobe: http://blog.mola-light.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nelly_bts_2.jpg (this photo was taken from the Mola blog)



Mar 26, 2014 at 06:06 PM
Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


"A beauty dish is not exclusively a key light. It can be used very effectively as both a fill and a rim light. I have also used it as a key light as far as 8-10 feet away for full body shots.

Here's a Mola used about 8 feet from the model, with Einstein strobe:"

I don't think his point was that you can't do it but that the beauty dish is no longer doing what it was designed for. At distances much greater the 3 feet or so it just becomes a harder soft box. The "beauty" part comes from it's ability to sculpt or wrap the face in light with a quick fall off. You can't get the proper fall off without it being close. However, it is a very versatile light shaping tool as the example from the Mola blog is pointing out. They market their products as much more than "beauty" dishes. And they are awesome by the way.



Mar 26, 2014 at 06:43 PM
armorris
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


Versatile is right! You can just do so much with these things -- and configure them in so many ways.


Mar 26, 2014 at 08:20 PM
nixland
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


First thanks to leethecam and others for sharing the knowledge & experience of the BD.
I have 3 BD, 30cm (attach to barebulb Godox flash), 40cm and 55cm and have it all tested in different distance and different setting (bare, with diffuser, with grid).

Each have different look (I still find time to manage the test photo result to be shared), but I like the most when the distance is below 2 times the diameter of the BD, especially if it's very close.
But the problem I had when putting the BD close enough (for close up shot off course) is there is no space for the camera & lens so that I have to use 50mm focal length, or even 35mm If I put the BD hire, it cast the shadow on the eyes too deep.
Yes I can fill it with reflector, but sometimes I want it hard look without reflector.
I am thinking of adding small fill light with low power just to fill the shadow of the eyes.
Do you guys have any other suggestions?

Secondly, I don't have a white surface BD. All my BD is silver
Is there any significant differences between white BD and silver BD with diffuser?
Thanks.



Mar 27, 2014 at 08:53 PM
JBPhotog
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


lroger wrote:
You may find this to prove useful; this site contains a 3-part series on beauty dishes
http://thelightingacademy.com/blog/


Although interesting, this series should provide the caveat that the falloff pattern and illumination projection is specific to the type of flash head and tube design used. Rather than a definitive example of one BD vs another.

The Elinchrom heads used will produce different light than lets say a Speedotron 102 or 202 which has a flash tube that projects from the head base rather than a simple horse shoe shape.



Mar 31, 2014 at 07:05 PM
Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


Here's an example with 22" Demi, PAD, and Opal Glass, Elinchrom Quadra.







Mar 31, 2014 at 08:03 PM
nixland
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


lroger wrote:
You may find this to prove useful; this site contains a 3-part series on beauty dishes
http://thelightingacademy.com/blog/


By the way I just read some statement on that article : " .... Those are common sizes and most photographers seem to prefer white interiors. Silver interiors do offer some beautiful and crisp light but are less popular than white .. "

Wow, I never had the white interior one before Very curious to try one ...



Apr 01, 2014 at 06:21 AM
Deezie
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


Wow, I never had the white interior one before Very curious to try one ...

If you throw a diffusion sock on the silver dish, you effectively have the softness of a white dish. This way, you have the best of both worlds. But if you don't need that snap to you photos and prefer just soft light, then the white interior dish is all you need.



Apr 01, 2014 at 09:55 AM
Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


Actually if you throw a sock on a beauty dish you just have a small round softbox.


Apr 01, 2014 at 05:55 PM
nixland
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


@Deezie & Gregg : thanks for the input.

By examining again the sample shots of the white BD, while it will give softer look than the silver, it gives a little bit more contrasty look than the silver with diff. sock.
I will try the white one







Apr 01, 2014 at 08:15 PM
Deezie
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


Actually if you throw a sock on a beauty dish you just have a small round softbox.

Well, my feeling is that using a white beauty dish is pretty close to using a round soft box, anyway. As you're probably aware, a smaller modifier is more contrasty that a larger one and if you pull the dish slightly away from the subject and add a sock to a silver BD, you pretty much have the same effect as a white BD. I own both white and silver-lined Profoto dishes and this has been my experience in using them.



Apr 01, 2014 at 08:23 PM
leethecam
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


The interesting thing I found whilst using the Profoto BD (with the dome on a D1 and the opal centre diffuser on the BD) is that it creates a rather useful pattern of light...

Slightly brighter centre, just about face width at the right distance, with a slight fall off to match the shadow under chin and modelling at the sides of cheekbones, followed by a slight increase in light for the wider area which illuminates the rest of the body quite evenly.

The differences in graduation are subtle and soft so it's possible to get good modeling without harsh edges.

I had opportunity to try a Pro Head with a conventional Profoto BD and it worked perfectly - even with the metal centre. A beautiful result and I'd wager slightly nicer than the D1 combo I have with my modified extras... but using this concentric pattern effect actually allows me to obtain wonderful results so I'm feeling very pleased.

Looking at the light pattern on the actual dish, the Pro Head throws light slightly further to the rear of the BD which is why it blends better. I'm talking with Profoto about a workable mod. If they took up my suggestion I'm guessing they'd have a similar effect with the D1 at a cost to the user of only £100 I wonder if they'll listen?

My experience of using the (very light) Profoto sock is that it creates a lovely soft light, but tends to throw it too wide to clain a Soft-BD "look." It's more of lovely round soft-box for me - albeit I'm only trying with the white dish.

I'm guessing the opal centre wouldn't work quite so well on a Profoto silver dish.



Apr 02, 2014 at 02:49 AM
nixland
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Beauty Dishes...how much difference?


I never tried the Mola, so curious to know the effects of multi ring pattern from the Mola dish. More gentle fall off?


Apr 04, 2014 at 11:12 AM
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