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Archive 2014 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features

  
 
Krubin
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


As I have been awaiting the release of the new D4s, I have been reading these threads with increasing frequency, soaking in everything I could get my hands on as I prepared to pick up a new D4s. The community seems to be very polarized, and out of curiosity I've been giving it some thought and think I have an answer.

There is a crowd (of which I am a part) that is and has been beyond excited about the release of the D4s. These are the folks whom don't seem to care that the body represents only incremental improvements, (ergonomics, the focusing algorithm improvements, etc.) and whom do not seem particularly concerned about the price tag.

There is another crowd that sees the body as a significant disappointment -- lacking 24MP, coming up short on 4k video, etc.

So earlier today I had an "a-ha" moment. The difference is about paying for features vs. paying for performance. When comparing feature-by-feature, paying over USD$6k for something that does not offer the latest-and-greatest "wow" numbers, (save some new ground relating to ISO sensitivity and such) must seem like a significant disappointment. With this thinking, some of the Canon bodies clearly outshine, and one can even compare much less expensive offerings and seemingly still you come up short.

For the other community, this camera represents paying top-dollar for top-performance. It is not about how many whiz-bang features are in the camera, it is all about how likely you are to capture that perfect moment and get it right -- accurate exposure, in focus, perfect expression, or whatever makes the magic. If 1 additional FPS means that the subject's eyes are looking exactly the right way, it is worth the price of admission. If the color accuracy is just that little bit better meaning that you don't need to invest time post-processing, it is worth it. If the focus accuracy allows you to maintain focus on that basketball player while someone from the opposing team cuts across your path en route to the seminal dunk that makes the game, it is all worth while.

A lot of the sparring I've seen seems to stem from the above observation. I'm in the "pay for performance" camp. I am fortunate enough to have a D4 already, and just leapfrogged my D3s to a D4s. When I am out there shooting, the two bodies (different generations) are seemingly interchangeable. I "choose" a body with a lens, putting the focal length I expect to favor onto the newer body, and then I don't think about it. I shoot. My D3s was an incredibly capable machine. So is the D4, or the D4s. To me, it is not about the whiz-bang, it is about being able to capture a shot before the lights come up and have confidence that I've got it.

Curious about what you all think, especially those that plan to get the D4s. Picked mine up Thursday, and it gets broken in tomorrow. I cannot wait...



Mar 08, 2014 at 09:01 PM
BenV
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


I'm lost...


Mar 08, 2014 at 09:05 PM
Krubin
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


So in a nutshell, I am suggesting that those in the market for a D4s are looking for any edge in getting a picture, and less focused on the feature-by-feature comparison with what else may be out there.



Mar 08, 2014 at 09:14 PM
John Skinner
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


I hope that with the truly incremental subtle differences between your later D3s and a D4s, you're able to sit in a corner at night and say 'job well done'.

As an original D1x owner, and having every pro body release Nikon has released with the exception of the D4... it's not as though I'm opposed to an upgrade. In the other side of that coin. It MUST be a justified upgrade.

I have seen the pixel peepers trashing out pixel by pixel the completely obtuse differences between these 3 bodies for months now. And although there is SOME slight variations and differences. It's sure as hell doesn't add up to 3K of upgrade costs. To say noting of the added expense of a new lineup of memory cards and readers to support these 2 new releases.

And the 1 or 2 FPS ? If that 1 or 2 was ever a make it or break it deal in over 35 years of shooting.... I would have quit this racket along with a F2as and a 100 exposure bulk back with 12 AA batteries to drive me at 6 FPS.

I'm happy... your happy. But these tinkerings that Nikon is doing now is just pissing people off, harming the brand, and driving lifelong customers away with crap upgrades, and even lousier tech support and service.

The poor buggers with D600's come blaring into my mind.



Mar 08, 2014 at 09:15 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


In end you have to quantify what situations the D4s will get you a better shot vs an older/less expensive body.


Mar 08, 2014 at 09:32 PM
sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


you also need to look at the business aspects too for the non hobbyist.


Mar 08, 2014 at 09:37 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


John Skinner wrote:
The poor buggers with D600's come blaring into my mind.


Why? The D600 is a new model and people like me, who NEVER, EVER buy new - get a smoking deal on a D600. I got mine that has 3100 clicks for $1300 - not refurbished. The money saved over a new D610 I put tword a 14-24



Mar 08, 2014 at 10:07 PM
cbbr
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


I'm with you Dustin. I have had my D600 for almost 2 years and love it. I have no idea what is poor about it...


Mar 08, 2014 at 10:32 PM
williamkazak
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


I have been reading there threads too. I am happy that I don't shoot sports or movie stars running down the sidewalks or models on the runways. That means I don't need the very latest high speed and heavy cameras and zoom lenses. I am glad that some of you are making money doing these things with your cameras. I hope that you are also covering your upgrade costs. Digital rot has gotten to me. The $1,800 D300 body is worth $400 now, if you can get it. I always want to keep it simple and I want to upgrade to an FX body right now. Nikon must know what they are doing if "the pros" are buying their most expensive cameras. If you need it, then I guess you need it. Maybe you just "want it".


Mar 08, 2014 at 11:15 PM
Keith B.
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


Krubin wrote:
So in a nutshell, I am suggesting that those in the market for a D4s are looking for any edge in getting a picture, and less focused on the feature-by-feature comparison with what else may be out there.


I got used to the
performance
of my Nikon D3 cameras.
Then I wanted more pixels so I got two D800s to replace them.
The performance of the D800s is a let down after the D3's.
The little Fuji XE1 I got as a souped-up point and shoot is even worse still.
It's easy to get spoiled!



Mar 08, 2014 at 11:42 PM
JimFox
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


BenV wrote:
I'm lost...


For once... I agree with Ben!

Features are Performance... A camera performs, based on it's features... less features... less performance... more features... more performance...

I think you could be thinking too hard...



Mar 08, 2014 at 11:53 PM
JimFox
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


John Skinner wrote:
The poor buggers with D600's come blaring into my mind.


Poor Buggers? What poor buggers?

My D600 has performed awesomely... So I had to wet clean the sensor a few times... I am guessing everyone has forgotten just how bad the dust performance was when DSLR's first got released, wet cleaning was the first reliable method to clean them...

The D600 had an issue with getting oil splatters... it performed wonderfully, and has captured thousands of great photos for me. And now... Nikon is going to put a brand new Shutter assembly in for me? Trust me.... I am no poor bugger... but a person who has gotten great use out of the D600, it has backed up my D800 wonderfully.

Jim



Mar 08, 2014 at 11:58 PM
MitchSC
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


Count me in as one of those happy "Poor Buggers". My D600 arrived today $1250 with
148 clicks. Plan to put on another 5000 clicks and get a new shutter unless Nikon puts an end date on the recall. What a deal!



Mar 09, 2014 at 12:22 AM
leighton w
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


Here's another "Poor Bugger", or maybe I'm a snot, haven't figured it out yet. I only know that my D600 won't "perform" like a D4, but I bet I can get a fair image out of it.


Mar 09, 2014 at 10:53 AM
euua
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


apples and oranges mate

Its wrong to compare D3 to D800. They are totally in different markets and in different leagues from each other.

D3 sport/journalism style shooter - fast,take a beating all day every day,lets get in and get out
D800 landscape/not in a rush shooter - I have time do figure out and set up, prepare,organize, analyse, and set up everything before taking a shot


Keith B. wrote:
I got used to the
performance
of my Nikon D3 cameras.
Then I wanted more pixels so I got two D800s to replace them.
The performance of the D800s is a let down after the D3's.
The little Fuji XE1 I got as a souped-up point and shoot is even worse still.
It's easy to get spoiled!




Mar 09, 2014 at 11:12 AM
John Skinner
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


JimFox wrote:
Poor Buggers? What poor buggers?

My D600 has performed awesomely... So I had to wet clean the sensor a few times... I am guessing everyone has forgotten just how bad the dust performance was when DSLR's first got released, wet cleaning was the first reliable method to clean them...

The D600 had an issue with getting oil splatters... it performed wonderfully, and has captured thousands of great photos for me. And now... Nikon is going to put a brand new Shutter assembly in for me? Trust me.... I am no poor bugger... but a person who has gotten great use out
...Show more

WOW... THAT's what you took away from the entirety of my post.

WTF do you guys do? half read a post...see it says D600 and just chime in with nonsense? The remark about a D600 wasn't implying anything other than Nikon was NOT helpful when this oil/grease issue came out.. It's kinda half-witted to start defending something that wasn't said or meant.

I am suggesting.. referring to the many (so many, they filed a class action) of people that got stuck with the D600 issues. I'm happy you clean, even happier you wet clean.. But for all the people who never intended to buy a lemon with chunks of grease and oil and the one's I was speaking for. If it happen to them... it could just as easily take place on the next release these guys make.. THIS is the problem. Nikon looks as though they've given up.



Mar 09, 2014 at 12:25 PM
JimFox
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Paying for Performance vs. Pay for Features


John Skinner wrote:
WOW... THAT's what you took away from the entirety of my post.

WTF do you guys do? half read a post...see it says D600 and just chime in with nonsense? The remark about a D600 wasn't implying anything other than Nikon was NOT helpful when this oil/grease issue came out.. It's kinda half-witted to start defending something that wasn't said or meant.

I am suggesting.. referring to the many (so many, they filed a class action) of people that got stuck with the D600 issues. I'm happy you clean, even happier you wet clean.. But for all the people who never
...Show more


Hey John,

You know how it is, we respond to the juicy parts, and being called a poor bugger was too big of a juicy apple to resist...

As for the cleaning, it dawned on me as I read your reply that as a society perhaps we are just plain too spoiled? I think back to the amount of cleaning I used to have to do with the early DSLR's from normal lens changes, and if I remember right, I used to have to clean them with about the same frequency I cleaned the D600. Now, that doesn't excuse the oil splattering, but sometimes I think people forget just good we have it now...

Jim



Mar 09, 2014 at 12:48 PM





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