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oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect pictu...
  
 
photoalex
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


I have an opportunity to pick up a 58 FL 1.2 to use with my A7R. The aperture blades are stuck in the wide open position because of oil but the seller is willing to have the lens sent in and repaired if I commit to purchase it. However, when I tried it out the other day on my A7r (with Fotodiox FD/FL adapter), I could not focus the lens to the point where the image zoomed in became clear. The resultant image viewed on the computer was also blurry (not just soft). I use the same adapter on an FD lens and don't have a problem. If I look through the lens (off the camera) it looks clear (albeit a bit yellow because of the thorium). Does the oil on the blades sometimes also leak onto the elements? Would this be obvious from looking through the lens if it had? Any thoughts on what could be causing the problem? It seemed like a good opportunity for a f1.2 lens for my a7r but not if I can't get a decent image out of it.


Mar 08, 2014 at 06:46 PM
sceptic
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


"Oil mist" can certainly deposit onto lens surfaces, but should be visible if looking through the lens. A real torture test is to shine a flash light through the lens while looking, this will reveal any deposits on the glass. Beware that all lenses look bad when doing this (all lenses have dust inside them). 1.2 and faster lenses are softer than their 1.4 and 1.8 counterparts and the term "sharp wide open" is among the most overused one in the photo community. In other words; your lens could be fine, you may just not be used to how soft old, fast lenses can be. The FL lenses I've owned (28/3.5 and 55/3.5 macro) had terrible coatings (not damaged, just really poor at handling stray light, resulting in low contrast), which could also affect your perception of sharpness.


Mar 08, 2014 at 07:09 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Not sure if the R mount Canomatic is the same as the FL. According to Canon Museum they have the same group and elements but they don't show the design.

I bought a Canomatic that was also jammed open (the seller didn't know or check). It was pretty soft WO but I could focus it with a normal FD-Nex adapter.
I returned rather than have it fixed so I don't have anything stopped down.

Mike

WO on NEX








Mar 08, 2014 at 11:29 PM
LightShow
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


photoalex wrote:
I have an opportunity to pick up a 58 FL 1.2 to use with my A7R. The aperture blades are stuck in the wide open position because of oil but the seller is willing to have the lens sent in and repaired if I commit to purchase it. However, when I tried it out the other day on my A7r (with Fotodiox FD/FL adapter), I could not focus the lens to the point where the image zoomed in became clear. The resultant image viewed on the computer was also blurry (not just soft). I use the same adapter on an
...Show more
Hard to say what's going on without any pictures, and oil on the lens, mist or otherwise shouldn't cause a sharp lens to be blurry, but more of a softness and loss of contrast, but you should still see sharp detail, or at least a good hint of sharpness through the veil of loss of contrast.



Mar 09, 2014 at 01:04 AM
alexands
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Hi, I'm the same person who started the post under the account name "photoalex" (I had an issue accessing my account for a while so I had to re-register under a different name). Anyhow, I don't think it's a case of not being used to softness in old lenses wide open because there are some really sharp examples on this forum of the same lens wide open (e.g., http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/918812/10).

Here are a couple examples of the lens in question mounted via fd/fl Fotodiox adapter on my a7r (this was the best focus I could achieve)





Canon FL 58 1.2 on A7r (aperture stuck wide open)

  ILCE-7R    ---- lens    1/1250s    100 ISO    -0.3 EV  







Canon FL 58 1.2 on A7r (aperture stuck wide open)

  ILCE-7R    ---- lens    1/1250s    400 ISO    -0.7 EV  




Mar 09, 2014 at 02:39 AM
alexands
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Hi, still curious about other's opinions ...do these pictures represent an expected level of softness at 1.2 or are they just blurry?


Mar 09, 2014 at 05:56 PM
Jonas B
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


I think the second image is worse than I would expect. It's hard to say about the first one.
That is based on limited use of the FL58/1.2 on my Sony A7.



Mar 09, 2014 at 06:34 PM
AtelierPhoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


I have mine on a fuji XT1 and it is sharper then those images wide open... But the aperture blades on mine are clean and snappy


Mar 09, 2014 at 07:14 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Based on that 2nd shot (which is awful) it looks as if the elements are askew. Any signs (small scratches) that it's been opened?


Mar 09, 2014 at 07:29 PM
alexands
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Ok, thanks for the feedback everyone. I figured it was more than just "softness". I didn't look to see if it had been opened. If I return to the store, I'll check for any telltale signs. The strange thing is that I put the lens on a film body and looked through the viewfinder and it looked ok...mind you I could not magnify the image like I can with my a7r. At one point the aperture blades closed a little on their own and I took a few more pics...they were a bit better but not by much.....I guess I'll have to wait for another 1.2 lens....


Mar 09, 2014 at 08:45 PM
 

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AtelierPhoto
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Did you try the stop down ring on the front of the lens? My adapter wouldn't allow the lens to mount flush so I just pulled the aperture control pin out of the adapter and use the stop down ring on the lens. I'll take a shot wide open and see if I can't post a 100% crop in a bit.


Mar 09, 2014 at 08:51 PM
Jonas B
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Fwiw, a quick and dirty comparison to the FDn 50/1.4:




Mar 09, 2014 at 09:11 PM
AtelierPhoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


FL 58 f1.2, wide open. Straight jpg from camera. Color - 0, Highlights - 0, Shaddows - 0, Sharpening - -2. Imported into LR, no editing, with screen shots of full image, and 100% crop.





Full image







100% crop




Mar 09, 2014 at 09:19 PM
Jonas B
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


BiohazardX369; your image seems to be what one can expect. What camera was used?


Mar 09, 2014 at 09:35 PM
AtelierPhoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Jonas B wrote:
BiohazardX369; your image seems to be what one can expect. What camera was used?


Fujifilm X-T1.



Mar 09, 2014 at 10:06 PM
alexands
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Thanks BiohazardX369 and Jonas B for the sample pics and comparison with the FDn 50 1.4. I did use the stop down ring on the front but the aperture is stuck open (due to oil) so it did not help (and I did have to remove the aperture lever from the Fotodiox adapter in order to be able to mount the FL lens on the camera).

It seems like the FL 58 1.2 is quite soft to begin with (although the samples I linked to from my earlier post were a lot sharper than the ones just posted). The copy I am looking at seems to be even softer, but I'm a little less convinced now after looking at your samples that it is a problem with the lens other than it being a really soft copy.







Mar 09, 2014 at 10:24 PM
alexands
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?



It turns out that the aperture is not stuck - I just did not clue in that there is both a stop down ring and an aperture ring on the front of the lens (even though Biohazard mentioned a stopdown ring). It also seems to be perfectly sharp even at 1.2 through a film camera viewfinder. It is still fuzzy through my a7r EVF (and on pictures I take with the a7r) unless I stop down to f2.8. I am wondering therefore if it could be the adapter (fotasy FD- NEX adapter). Jonas B, could you tell me which adapter are you using to mount your FL 58 1.2 on your A7? (or anyone else who uses FL lenses on their A7r). Thanks.



Mar 18, 2014 at 11:38 PM
alexands
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Here are a few more examples...the first one stopped down several stops and the second one at f1.2. The fuzziness at 1.2 is somewhat worse at a distance than with closeups...





stopped down

  ILCE-7R    ---- lens    1/1000s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  







wide open

  ILCE-7R    ---- lens    1/8000s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Mar 18, 2014 at 11:50 PM
alexands
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


I notice that at f1.2 there is usually a glow (see crop below)..Does anyone know if this can this be attributed to poor coatings on the FL 58mm 1.2?







Mar 19, 2014 at 03:22 AM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · oil on aperture blades of 58 FL 1.2 - can it affect picture quality too?


Are you sure the 1.2 shot was focused correctly? That appears to be out of focus.

Also, on the picture of your keyboard, I believe those are aberrations of the lens, and not about the coatings.



Apr 01, 2014 at 10:02 AM
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