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Archive 2014 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm

  
 
krementz
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


I am trying to understand a little about perspective. For scene that fully fills the view of a 14mm lens (115 deg), is there any difference whether it is captured via multiple shifted TSE shots, or a multi-row panorama with a 100 mm telephoto?

Obviously, there is a huge difference in resolution. There may be stitching artifacts. The quality of the individual lens influences the image, eg, the edges of the shot by the Samyang 14 will be less sharp than the edge area taken by the EF 100 macro. I am sure pixel peeping at > 200% will show many differences.

However, if it was printed at 12 x 18, are there any real perspective differences visible? Does tele compression make a visible difference?



Mar 08, 2014 at 09:10 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


I use all of the lenses/focal lengths which you mention above for scenic shots. I would not recommend to use an ultrawide lens to stich photos since you always have some sort of distortion on the left and right borders of the frame. 24 mm TSE works well to stich photos both in the vertical and horizontal direction. By stiching 3 single photos with the 24 TSE lens, you get approximately a 12 mm field of view on full frame. The 90 mm TSE is ideal for stiching panoramic photos, this works absolutely flawlessly. I did not use the 100/2.8 macro lens to stich panoramic photos yet, but I would assume it works fine, too. The tele lenses normally reduce the perspective differences quite well when you stich photos together in post processing.


Mar 08, 2014 at 09:23 AM
Photon
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


Perspective is determined entirely by where you place the camera. Aside from optical distortion (bending of lines - all lenses have some, but it's hardest to minimize in wide angle design), the rendering of a scene will be the same whether you stitch a boatload of long tele shots or use one ultra wide angle or stitch shift-lens photos (the last equates to using a larger format camera and cropping the result to a panoramic aspect ratio).

So called tele compression is simply the result of viewing a scene from a great distance under high magnification. If you had a wide angle of incredible resolution (and a sensor to match) and cropped a tiny narrow angle portion from your shot, you would get the same sense of compression.



Mar 08, 2014 at 10:04 AM
Photon
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


Also, you mentioned stitching artifacts. One advantage of using a TS-E for a scene that includes objects close to the lens is that shifting the lens in prep for a stitched composite will not greatly change the relationship between the near objects and distant background. Using, say, the 100 macro would require turning the camera on the tripod, and will make a considerable change in that foreground/background overlap, causing stitching problems. To avoid this, you need to rotate the camera around the optical node of the lens, which in the case of a tele can be out near the nose of the lens, far from the tripod thread of the camera. There are specialized mounts to deal with this.

For a landscape that doesn't have real foreground overlap with background, go ahead and experiment with your 100. I've even done stitched panos from hand held shots with good results. Obviously the subject makes a big difference, and clearly you understand the issues of resolution.



Mar 08, 2014 at 10:14 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


As others have said: perspective doesn't change, so long as the exact same spot is used for viewing the subject. It doesn't matter the focal length or angle of view.

The most striking difference in using a 100mm (or longer) lens to patch together a composite image that equals the same angle of view of an UWA lens is the DOF being drastically different based on the same or similar f-stops. The 100mm will have significantly shallower DOF, mimicking the effect of a moderate lens on large format camera. Some photographers enjoy exaggerating this effect by using the telephoto lens wide open for mega-exposure captures with devices like Giga-pan.




Mar 08, 2014 at 10:34 AM
Mitchell Carter
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


krementz wrote:
For scene that fully fills the view of a 14mm lens (115 deg), is there any difference whether it is captured via multiple shifted TSE shots, or a multi-row panorama with a 100 mm telephoto?


If the scene were a single flat object - say the the side of a building - and your sensor was parallel to it, I don't think we'd see much difference in compression (if "compression" is the right word).

But if the scene contained both near and far objects, the relative sizes of the objects would change dramatically depending on whether you stitched a few 24mm shot, or several 100mm shots (just as they do in non-stitched single shots seen through those two lengths).



Mar 08, 2014 at 10:38 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


Mitchell Carter wrote:
If the scene were a single flat object - say the the side of a building - and your sensor was parallel to it, I don't think we'd see much difference in compression (if "compression" is the right word).

But if the scene contained both near and far objects, the relative sizes of the objects would change dramatically depending on whether you stitched a few 24mm shot, or several 100mm shots (just as they do in non-stitched single shots seen through those two lengths).


Sorry, the objects won't change at all. There is no true compressed perspective, or wide-angle "distortion". As long as the some point is used, the relationship of all objects remains exactly the same. That's the truth of perspective: how things look from one viewing position.



Mar 08, 2014 at 10:46 AM
Photon
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


Gunzorro wrote:
As others have said: perspective doesn't change, so long as the exact same spot is used for viewing the subject. It doesn't matter the focal length or angle of view.

The most striking difference in using a 100mm (or longer) lens to patch together a composite image that equals the same angle of view of an UWA lens is the DOF being drastically different based on the same or similar f-stops. The 100mm will have significantly shallower DOF, mimicking the effect of a moderate lens on large format camera. Some photographers enjoy exaggerating this effect by using the telephoto lens wide
...Show more
Right, I was going to mention that, but time was short. Background blur is highly dependent on magnification, and therefore focal length. So that's another thing that comes into play if the scene contains close foreground and functionally infinite background distance. Best way to get a feel for it is to experiment.



Mar 08, 2014 at 11:23 AM
Mitchell Carter
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


Gunzorro wrote, in part:
Sorry, the objects won't change at all. There is no true compressed perspective, or wide-angle "distortion". As long as the some point is used, the relationship of all objects remains exactly the same. That's the truth of perspective: how things look from one viewing position.


I re-read the OP and I now realize that he is describing a situation where the camera's location would not change. Only the number of stitches would change (more for the narrower lens, fewer for the wider lens).

I stand corrected, thanks.



Mar 08, 2014 at 12:13 PM
Monito
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


krementz wrote:
However, if it was printed at 12 x 18, are there any real perspective differences visible? Does tele compression make a visible difference?


Perspective depends only on two distances.

Posters above have correctly highlighted the distance of the taking lens to the parts of the scene.

The second distance is the distance of the viewer to the printed (or displayed) image.

A strong or ultra- wide angle photo looks "distorted" only because of the viewing distance. If you put your eye within a few inches of such a photo and swivel it around, the perspective will look normal. Likewise if you mount a long focal length photo and look at it from several times a normal viewing distance, it will not seen compressed.



Mar 08, 2014 at 12:31 PM
krementz
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


Thank you, all.

My assumption is the tripod does not move. I am aware of the nodal point for multi-shot panoramas; by "artifacts" I meant issues with moving clouds, waves, etc. which are inherent in multi-exposure composites.

Monito, thank you for illustrating why people look "fat" on the edges of ultrawide shots.



Mar 08, 2014 at 03:15 PM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Perspective 14mm vs 24 tse vs multi-row pano @100mm


I use them all.

Really Wide lens = single shot , lowest resolution but great for moving things and for seeing the framing.

Shifted shot - more resolution, no dof problems, stitching is good so long as there is little movement

multiple shots - lots of resolution but you have to deal with subject movement AND with many frames changing light. At sunset/sunrise I can get one set of frames ( 2 rows 5 frames say at 24mm) before the light has changed too much. Dof is a real issue if you shoot 100mm+ and want front/back focus - this may mean stacking. Considering with gigapan its hard (but not impossible) to use grad filters getting good results is tricky.



Mar 08, 2014 at 04:15 PM





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