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Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?
  
 
Dudewithoutape
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


I think the problem is the fact that it's a FF EOS mount (6D), you want something better (or at least "special" compared to the 24-105mm), and you only want to spend $100. On top of that, you wanted something in the 35mm range, but that may have changed with your latest posting.

Here are a few that fit your requirements, sort of:
Oly 28 3.5 (well loved in the alt forum)
Oly 50 1.8 ("made in japan" on the front)
Oly 1.4 (older version has a special look wide open, newer ser 1.1M+ is sharper)
Pentax/Takumar 50 1.4
Perhaps old Kiron or Vivitar Series 1 lenses in Nikon, Oly, C/Y, or Pentax mount.
Oly made a 35 2.8, but I haven't heard anything about it (good or bad) that is prob under $100


You might get lucky from the Japanese camera shops that may have some gems for <$100, but you will need to know prices.




Mar 07, 2014 at 01:13 AM
helimat
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


There will be many options for $100, mainly in the 50mm range though. You mentioned a Russian camera in your original post, so you might be interested in the Helios 58/2, available on eBay for around $60. The Pentax Super Tak 50's and 55's are nice. Olympus 50/1.4... Not too much more and you could get a Contax Zeiss 50/1.7. Lots of options. I would suggest the EG-S focus screen though.


Mar 07, 2014 at 05:04 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


jbourne -- I still don't get why all the 50mm lenses? You have the EF 50/1.4, the 50/1.8 II, trying to decide between them. And now your most likely and affordable manual lens being another 50mm, of undoubtedly lower IQ than either of these two Canon lenses.

You say you want something with more unique rendering than your 24-105L IS -- wouldn't either of those Canon 50mm lenses qualify, used at a larger aperture than f/4?

Sorry, but I'm not getting the issue here.



Mar 07, 2014 at 02:53 PM
helimat
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


Lower IQ than the two Canon POS lenses?


Mar 07, 2014 at 07:16 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


helimat wrote:
Lower IQ than the two Canon POS lenses?


Yes, I tried several under $100 lenses, including the Pentax Super Tak 50/1.4, and none of them could match the Canon 50/1.4.

It wasn't until I hit around the $300 mark that a used Contax Zeiss 50/1.4 was clearly superior. But of course no AF or even auto aperture, so from a handling perspective, it's not nearly as easy to use. Still have that lens.






Mar 07, 2014 at 07:41 PM
outlawyer
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


Another vote for Oly/Zuiko. My 21 3.5 is a great landscape lens on my 6D.


Mar 07, 2014 at 07:46 PM
helimat
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


Gunzorro wrote:
Yes, I tried several under $100 lenses, including the Pentax Super Tak 50/1.4, and none of them could match the Canon 50/1.4.

It wasn't until I hit around the $300 mark that a used Contax Zeiss 50/1.4 was clearly superior. But of course no AF or even auto aperture, so from a handling perspective, it's not nearly as easy to use. Still have that lens.



Hmmmm. I have several sub-$100 lenses, and have had both the Canon 50's in the past. The Canon lenses are long gone, the legacy ones I have are sticking around. In all cases sharper, more character, and much better colours, but none have AF of course... Which isn't an issue for me.



Mar 07, 2014 at 08:19 PM
Joe Garner
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


helimat wrote:
Lower IQ than the two Canon POS lenses?


Only one of those lenses is POS, the 1.8 pity-fifty. But does it really surprise you that a modern design would have a better IQ? 1.4 has significantly better coatings, and about as sharp wide open.



Mar 07, 2014 at 08:23 PM
Joe Garner
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


mMontag wrote:
The Oly 24/2.8 "H. Zuiko" is a single coated lens - the non-H. Zuiko's (with MC or just Zuiko) in the faceplate are multi-coated. The multi-coated lenses have a higher contrast and more flare resistant.


Sure, but H.Zuiko certainly does a very decent job handling flare, and contrast will whatever I decide it should be in post. So, not exactly the "avoid" pile in my book. In any case, it's well outside OP's price range.



Mar 07, 2014 at 08:27 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


helimat wrote:
Hmmmm. I have several sub-$100 lenses, and have had both the Canon 50's in the past. The Canon lenses are long gone, the legacy ones I have are sticking around. In all cases sharper, more character, and much better colours, but none have AF of course... Which isn't an issue for me.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this then!

Perhaps someone can run some controlled comparisons in real life situations to show the merits of each?



Mar 07, 2014 at 08:51 PM
 

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helimat
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


Joe Garner wrote:
Only one of those lenses is POS, the 1.8 pity-fifty. But does it really surprise you that a modern design would have a better IQ? 1.4 has significantly better coatings, and about as sharp wide open.


I guess I value qualities other than sharpness more than some. I find the 50/1.4 to be lacking contrast, and to have terrible bokeh.



Mar 07, 2014 at 11:27 PM
jbourne
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


mMontag wrote:
jboure

I'm missing it on the car analogy but if you're looking for "unique" rendering try:

Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8 - Helios 40-2 85/1.5 - Biotar 75/1.5 - more than $100 though.

Unfortunately I'm now seeing the Trioplan & Biotar prices has really advance in the last so many years - I bought them back when no one was interested.

Edit to add: Tair 11a 135/2.8 - $200-250usd

Thanks for the advice! I was reading for the last few days and the Trioplan looks AMAZING. Sadly, it seems to have shot up from 60 to $500 and up, so I guess that's not happening.

I managed to snag a Contax Planar 50/1.4 for $199, surprisingly an MM(J) version, and just now I won a bid on Yahoo auctions/Japan for a Super Takumar 50/1.4 - the 8-element version! - for $70. Guess that's a good start, now I get to a) sit and anxiously wait for them to get here and b) see if I'm even capable of shooting manual before investing any more in glass



Mar 08, 2014 at 01:20 PM
jbourne
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


Gunzorro wrote:
jbourne -- I still don't get why all the 50mm lenses? You have the EF 50/1.4, the 50/1.8 II, trying to decide between them. And now your most likely and affordable manual lens being another 50mm, of undoubtedly lower IQ than either of these two Canon lenses.

You say you want something with more unique rendering than your 24-105L IS -- wouldn't either of those Canon 50mm lenses qualify, used at a larger aperture than f/4?

Sorry, but I'm not getting the issue here.


My perspective on it was this: I feel like 50mm on a full frame seems to be a very good "walkabout" length, hence my fixation on is length. Not too zoomed, and not too wide angle (although I imagine I should give 35mm a shot, too). So the way I see it is: I have the Canon 1.8 II if I were to need AF and pretty good IQ (since tests do appear to suggest that), but from what I understand (and again, sorely lacking experience in this regard) the alt lenses, like the Super Tak, the Planar 50/1.7 and so on have much more "character", whether it be bokeh quality, contrast, colour reproduction and so on. As I further understand it, the canon 1.4 is a good lens, but one that seems to be stuck somewhere in between: better bokeh than the 1.8, slightly softer in IQ, and otherwise very uneventful, without any special outstanding comments on contrast, colours and so on, compared to manual lenses.

Now granted - (back to a car analogy, ha) - an Acura or a Lexus would both likely get very few emotional rave reviews, but yet be very solid, reliable, and give repeatable performance, whereas a 1960s muscle car may be fun and glorious but finicky and subjective, which is what I may be setting myself up for here, but until we know we don't know, right



Mar 08, 2014 at 01:29 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


Of all the lenses you are considering (50/1.8 II, 50/1.4, sub $100 Alt), the 50/1.4 is clearly the best lens as far as construction and imaging goes.

You can read all sorts of supporting arguments in the Alt forum for "character", but most often it embraces certain lens aberrations as positive instead of negatives. Most of the lower price Alt models (under $100) are fairly poor in the contrast, field curvature and spherical aberration (all factors in the Canon 50/1.8 as well, compared to the 50/1.4, which is much better corrected). Not useless, I'll grant, but certainly not going to be much competition to the Canon 50/1.4.

I found the 50/1.4 to rival the outstanding EF 50/2.5 Compact Macro for sharpness, color and contrast -- all being exceptionally high starting at around f/2.8. The macro lens is superior in field flatness and lack of spherical aberration and coma.

I (sadly) sold my EF 50/1.4 to finance a Zeiss ZE 50/1.4 Planar -- one of the worst mistakes I've ever made on lens swaps. I got rid of that Zeiss immediately due to its aberrations including extreme focus shift. It's not as if I haven't tried to use Alt lenses. I've done my share of tail-chasing! Alas, it was too late to recover the EF 50/1.4. The good news was that lead me to purchase the EF 50/1.2L, which is my favorite 50mm lens of all time, and along with still owning and loving the 50/2.5 macro, covers almost all my 50mm needs perfectly.

My Contax Zeiss 50/1.4 is excellent, as is my Leica R 60/2.8 Macro. But those lenses take a back seat due to the ease of use of the Canon models.

Also, when I found how much I was spending on "goofy" Alt lenses, compared to what I could have bought in high quality Canon lenses (like various "L" models), I started to sell off all my Alt stuff and concentrate on the best Canon models I could afford, like the various TSE and macro primes. To each his own.

Regardless of whether you buy Canon or Alt lenses, you get what you pay for. If you want the highest quality imaging, you are going to end up with Canon L lenses, or versions like Zeiss ZE, Voigtlander, etc on the Alt end. There is no optical free lunch.

If you simply want to marvel that you can capture some image from a $25 lens that looks somewhat like the original subject -- go for it! But you aren't going to surpass your 24-105L IS for clarity or details at the same apertures.



Mar 08, 2014 at 04:07 PM
Joe Garner
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


helimat wrote:
I guess I value qualities other than sharpness more than some. I find the 50/1.4 to be lacking contrast, and to have terrible bokeh.


For me the 50 is a walkaround lens, so I mostly value not the vague aspects like bokeh, but center sharpness, focus responsiveness and precision. That sort of stuff. Contrast? It will whatever I adjust it to.



Mar 08, 2014 at 04:29 PM
jbourne
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?




Gunzorro wrote:
Of all the lenses you are considering (50/1.8 II, 50/1.4, sub $100 Alt), the 50/1.4 is clearly the best lens as far as construction and imaging goes.

You can read all sorts of supporting arguments in the Alt forum for "character", but most often it embraces certain lens aberrations as positive instead of negatives. Most of the lower price Alt models (under $100) are fairly poor in the contrast, field curvature and spherical aberration (all factors in the Canon 50/1.8 as well, compared to the 50/1.4, which is much better corrected). Not useless, I'll grant, but certainly not going to be
...Show more

Very interesting. You're hitting on a very subtle point that did actually concern me, and still does - the idea of painting optical defects as pluses and "character", rather than faulty reproductions. It may be useful in certain artistic cases, but not all, and is something worth keeping in mind.

I've heard many good things about the 1.2L, but that's far out of my budget (which just went to a 70-200 F4 IS). I guess I have to go through the tail-chasing phase to really appreciate it, though; as it stands, I did a few test shots with the 1.8 II and the 1.4, and the 1.8 looked sharper (though pentagons, pentagons), so I probably wouldn't even appreciate the 1.4 fully.

The funny thing is I wasn't like this with my crop frame. I had my set of lenses, I had a good time with it, all was well. And now that I got a FF, gear acquisition syndrome has set in.

You're probably quite right that the 24-105 will get the most use. It's an excellent lens, has good optical characteristics and a quick autofocus. All the others are more gimmicky.



Mar 08, 2014 at 04:41 PM
asiafish
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


I love the 35/2 IS as a walk around and paired with the 85/1.8 for indoor event use. Outdoors the 24-105L is really all that I need unless I'm after bokeh, then the two primes with ND filters are far better.


Mar 08, 2014 at 06:06 PM
asiafish
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


As for ALT lenses, Leica R glass is terrific, but pricey. Minolta MC and MD Rokkors tend to be outstanding as well. The older and cheaper MC Rokkor PF 135mm f/2.8 gets far less respect than newer version on internet fora, but has the best bokeh I've ever seen at that focal length other than the Sony/Zeiss 135/1.8 or Canon EF 135/2 L.


Mar 08, 2014 at 06:08 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


If the f/1.8 is working for you, go with it! Sell the 1.4 toward something else more interesting. Like asiafish, I'm loving the new 35 IS as a general lens.

My favorites for light travel are FF body with 24-105L IS and either 50L or the new 35 IS. Selling the 50/1.4 would get you about half way to the price of the 35 IS. Just sayin'! Most times, I'm okay with the zoom only unless there is something specific I want to accomplish or a certain lens I want to play with.

Have fun chosing -- there is no wrong answer -- anything can be resold later for something you like better.

BTW -- I didn't get the 50L right away -- that was almost a dozen years into my digital phase, following around 20 years of film! So, you're off to a good start, relatively speaking.




Mar 08, 2014 at 08:49 PM
vovkinson
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Suggestions for a(n old) manual lens for a 6D?


canon legacy lenses, Olympus lenses with adapters,Rokkors, etc
Give yourself a favor - get Zeiss EF mount lenses and you'll be happy.
I've gotten the chance to get thru all that cheap crappy legacy junk and sold them all for half of the price. It was a nightmare.



Mar 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM
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