Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

FM Forum Rules
Nature & Wildlife Posting Guidelines
  

FM Forums | Nature & Wildlife | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
  

stealing snowy owls
  
 
chris_proctor
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · stealing snowy owls


I'd like to share some feedback here from a falconers perspective. I have been a falconer for nearly 21 years. I fly my birds daily and hunt waterfowl & upland game with my falcons during each seaosn with success. I am also a golden eagle research biologist and a district manager for a mobile vet clinic.

This thread, entitled "stealing" Snowy owls can be viewd as slanderish, because he was not stealing any birds. This guy ACTUALLY turned out to have the proper trapping permit for a snowy owl. He was not cited. In falconry, you can train owls to hunt with you in the same manor as a hawk. After being on a falconry permit for 2 years he would be allowed to breed the bird as well if he ALSO had a propagation permit.

Most all falconers are extremely ethical. We train and fly our birds free, let them hunt daily and then give them quality care and treatment in order to thrive. Falconry has been around for nearly 4000 years, though in America it has only been around for 80 years, give or take.

The only thing he was doing wrong here was trespassing on privet property. I think this thread is misleading and doesn't properly display the truth.

Not trying to argue, as everyone has their opinions.....but c'mon people, let's state what is what here and no more than that.



Mar 03, 2014 at 11:19 PM
jmckayak
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · stealing snowy owls


There were hundreds of PEOPLE from the Lancaster area visiting to SEE the owls. There were a number of photographers. Also birders, Amish, and random passers by. NO ONE was 'chasing' the owls that day. There have been several instances of people - photographers, locals and even equestrians harassing the owls. Andy has been instrumental in informing some of those folks to STAY AWAY from the owls.
There have been several instances of the owls LANDING near people. I have photos of one owl perched on a house chimney. That owl was completely unconcerned about people. The local people, Amish and 'English' have been intrigued and amazed at the local spectacle. It WOULD feel like theft if a falconer took one of those birds.
The falconer may have had a legal right to take an owl. THIS guy didn't, he WAS trespassing despite what the reporter wrote. Even if it had been legal, it was remarkably foolish for him to try to trap an owl that was banded and carrying a transmitter. This falconer placed HIS desire for a bird and profit over the work and expense of a scientific enterprise. If the folks who were enjoying the spectacle knew that the falconer was trying to take the bird for HIMSELF, they would have raised a stink. Maybe worse… Several people were led to believe that the falconer was working for the PA State Game Commission. I'm not sure if he lied to them regarding that but he DID try to mislead other people into believing that he was affiliated with Project Snowstorm. He wasn't connected with them in any way.
Most of the birds that have been trapped and banded are in fine shape and are finding enough to eat. We know that because of Project Snowstorm. I don't know of ANY scientific information being currently being released by falconers.



Mar 03, 2014 at 11:22 PM
jmckayak
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · stealing snowy owls


chris_proctor, I know that falconers were instrumental in the reintroduction of the Peregrine Falcon. Falconers have also been a great assistance to hawk banders and bird of prey rehabbers. I've met a local falconer who has one of the 'foster parent' falcons from Tom Cade's Falcon reintroduction program. That falconer is excellent! I do NOT have a problem with falconry. I DO have a problem with a falconer who tries to catch a bird that has been overly publicized and has been banded. Yes, he may have the right but he also has the responsibility to leave a bird that has become a local celebrity.
MANY people are now trying to severely limit falconry in PA. This guy is a terrible ambassador for the falconry community. I have seen many falconry and bird of prey demonstrations. All those demonstrations have been positive, educational experiences. This experience has been EXTREMELY negative even though it has been an education.



Mar 03, 2014 at 11:49 PM
chris_proctor
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · stealing snowy owls


I'd love to give you a proper education, but instead I'll let you look it up yourself. Falconers are solely responsible for bringing Peregrines back from extinction in North America/Canada. Look up the Peregrine Fund, started by falconers. Also, the North American Falconers Association is the reason we have many of the current conservation laws in place today. While "This" falconer made a mistake, choosing his location to find an owl, he had permission by your state to trap an owl for falconry. Falconers do more good for raptor conservation than "any" other Foundation or Organization. There are Thousands of us who rally behind our local states to protect all raptors and just as important....their Habitat.


Mar 04, 2014 at 12:00 AM
chris_proctor
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · stealing snowy owls


My post was a reply to your first reply, just saw your 2nd one.....in which I agree with. He is a bad example for what we do.


Mar 04, 2014 at 12:03 AM
Keiththom
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · stealing snowy owls


Falconers or photographers sometimes do things that while they may be legal, are sometimes not very smart. This may have been one of those instances. One thing is certain - someone from the falconry community contacted this falconer and talked to him about the incident. One thing the falconry community does well is police their own. Problem solved.


Mar 04, 2014 at 12:04 AM
chris_proctor
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · stealing snowy owls


Yes, we do...lol.

Keiththom wrote:
Falconers or photographers sometimes do things that while they may be legal, are sometimes not very smart. This may have been one of those instances. One thing is certain - someone from the falconry community contacted this falconer and talked to him about the incident. One thing the falconry community does well is police their own. Problem solved.




Mar 04, 2014 at 12:09 AM
Michael Rucci
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · stealing snowy owls


Well done Andy I don't know correct me if i'm wrong but once a bird is banded the whole purpose is defeated if some one else captures it and trains it for his or her own purpose. The whole reason to band a bird is to gather info right? What type of info would this bird provide if it were captured and used to hunt?


Mar 04, 2014 at 12:32 AM
Keiththom
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · stealing snowy owls


Michael Rucci wrote:
Well done Andy I don't know correct me if i'm wrong but once a bird is banded the whole purpose is defeated if some one else captures it and trains it for his or her own purpose. The whole reason to band a bird is to gather info right? What type of info would this bird provide if it were captured and used to hunt?


Band information is usually not captured or useful unless the bird is trapped or killed.

We encourage falconers to leave any bird alone that is marked or being used in a research project. Certainly one that is radio-tagged is off limits if for no other reason, ethics. Some of the time, that isn't know until after the bird is trapped. A falconer that purposely targets a radio-tagged bird would receive a very cold reception in the close-knit falconry community. Just as a photographer that purposely flushes a bird off their nest to get a photo would be criticized in the wild-life photography community.



Mar 04, 2014 at 12:48 AM
mogul
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · stealing snowy owls


Why is everyone accepting that falconry is nothing more than a harmless pastime. This is a blood sport such as bull baiting etc left over from our ancient past. Falconers get a kick watching their well fed birds inflict harm on other wildlife and base their masculinity on the prowess of their birds.


Mar 04, 2014 at 01:00 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Keiththom
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · stealing snowy owls


mogul wrote:
Why is everyone accepting that falconry is nothing more than a harmless pastime. This is a blood sport such as bull baiting etc left over from our ancient past. Falconers get a kick watching their well fed birds inflict harm on other wildlife and base their masculinity on the prowess of their birds.


Not even worthy of a response.



Mar 04, 2014 at 01:02 AM
mogul
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · stealing snowy owls


You can't respond, I wonder why? The falconer with the biggest bird is the winner...I live in an area where the golden eagle is captured for the enjoyment of men who brag and show movies of the kills. Central Oregon


Mar 04, 2014 at 01:08 AM
Michael Rucci
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · stealing snowy owls


Keiththom wrote:
Band information is usually not captured or useful unless the bird is trapped or killed.

We encourage falconers to leave any bird alone that is marked or being used in a research project. Certainly one that is radio-tagged is off limits if for no other reason, ethics. Some of the time, that isn't know until after the bird is trapped. A falconer that purposely targets a radio-tagged bird would receive a very cold reception in the close-knit falconry community. Just as a photographer that purposely flushes a bird off their nest to get a photo would be criticized in the
...Show more
Hello Keith
I am no way against the sport of falconry if my use of sport is wrong please correct me I believe it is a very skilled person who has the patience, know how, and time to train a bird to do this.I would much rather see another animal hunted in this manner than another way.From what i have read from the posts this bird did have a radio transmitter on so ethics comes into play here.I do disagree with you about the gathering of info off a bird most of the time a photographer is instrumental in getting the info I have taken shots of eagles that were banded read the #s sent the info into the right place and got back the info ,sex ,state,when and where it was banded and the fact that i reported this in my image just reinforces the research done to protect the bird and the species no matter an eagle, plover,or snowy owl.Their are good and bad people in every walk of life and in this case i'm thinking this was bad



Mar 04, 2014 at 01:16 AM
Keiththom
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · stealing snowy owls


Mogul: Congrats for taking this discussion in the toilet. I will not follow you.


Mar 04, 2014 at 01:17 AM
AvianScott
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · stealing snowy owls


mogul wroteFalconers get a kick watching their well fed birds inflict harm on other wildlife and base their masculinity on the prowess of their birds.

Sooo...what would the raptor be doing if not in the hands of a falconer? Oh yeah - the exact same thing, hunting.

I don't have the time to dedicate to falconry, but I'm absolutely fascinated by it. If given the choice between a gun and a Peregrine during duck season, I'll take a Peregrine every time.



Mar 04, 2014 at 02:18 AM
mogul
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · stealing snowy owls


Would you steal it out of a nest for your passion?


Mar 04, 2014 at 02:20 AM
mptnest
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · stealing snowy owls


We all make mistakes. I'm sure we all have done things out of greed that we later regretted. Stories are stories, he said, she said doesn't matter. Here's the key, speak up and act responsibly. I'm certain the falconry community will pass on their disappointments and expectations to their fellow member. We all must do the same. Working together is the key. Don't divide us by our interests, unite together and get rid of the spoils. This thread is about an individual driven with wrongful intentions. Several people worked together, spoke up and the problem was addressed. Hopefully, this thread will serve as an aid to illustrate the need for proper respect of people, property and wildlife.

Al



Mar 04, 2014 at 02:44 AM
AvianScott
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · stealing snowy owls


mogul wrote:
Would you steal it out of a nest for your passion?


Yes.

Given the mortality rate for juvenile raptors is 60%-70%, it would have a better chance of surviving in a falconers care than it would in the wild.



Mar 04, 2014 at 03:08 AM
chris_proctor
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · stealing snowy owls


mogul wrote:
Why is everyone accepting that falconry is nothing more than a harmless pastime. This is a blood sport such as bull baiting etc left over from our ancient past. Falconers get a kick watching their well fed birds inflict harm on other wildlife and base their masculinity on the prowess of their birds.



Wow. Maybe you should refrain from posting such comments since they make you look really, really, really uneducated.

Falconry is a blood sport, you are correct. It is the sport of "hunting" with a bird of prey. We train our birds to hunt "with" us, accepting us as their partners. They hunt in the wild to survive. They are hunters regardless of being in captivity or the wild. This is what THEY DO. We do not sick our birds onto helpless quarry. Most flights DO NOT end in a kill. We respect the quarry and the habitat that the quarry is found in. We tread lightly. We do LESS damage to wildlife and habitat then any of the other hunting methods, because all we take with us is a bird and sometimes a pointer. Nothing is more natural than a bird chasing it's natural quarry. Rabbits, waterfowl and upland birds are all chased by raptors daily. They know how to elude raptors and get really good at it. Someone trudging through with a shotgun and shooting at game is EXTREMELY more un-natural and violent than falconry.

Falconers are a more proactive group of conservationists than ANY birder group or photography group on the planet. We have given millions of dollars in state club and national club money to keep wild lands free, to save sage grouse, to build nesting platforms for sensitive species, to make the power companies build T design poles to keep raptors from getting electrocuted AND THE LIST GOES ON.

Instead of using rifles to hunt, or bows...spear guns....etc, we form a bond with a wild animal and then watch it as it does what it NATURALLY wants to do.

If you get a minute, go learn something factual before you post such foolish and emotional statements.




Mar 04, 2014 at 03:25 AM
chris_proctor
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · stealing snowy owls


mogul wrote:
Would you steal it out of a nest for your passion?


Think about it like this, and this is all factual biology.

75% of birds of prey born on any given year die from predation, electrocution, disease or starvation. In the "NEST" for all species studied 1 in 3 will die during nesting either from sibling predation, predation or starvation and disease. The number can be higher for some species.

When a falconer climbs into a nest to pull a chick that he intends to raise and fly, he gives the other chicks a HUGE boost in survival while in the nest. It eases the pressure on the parents to supply food in years when prey is scarce as well, therefore making the nest more successful.

That falconer then raises the chick, trains it and then hunts with it daily during the hunting season. The bird's birth right TO BE A HUNTER & HIGH FLYING creature of the sky is lived out everyday AND it's prior 75% chance of dying is reduced to 5%.






Mar 04, 2014 at 03:33 AM
1       2      
3
       4       end




FM Forums | Nature & Wildlife | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password