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Archive 2014 · Funny calibration question..

  
 
adamdewilde
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Funny calibration question..


Hi guys,

Ok, so I was thinking about buying some calibration software to calibrate my camera and monitor, but also to calibrate my printer (more for me). Any recommendations? I'm thinking munki x-rite stuff..

But I got to thinking.. Most of my client work is digital, as in I give a CD and the client uses it for website purposes etc. So if I calibrate my monitor (thunderbolt display) then edit the images, and give it to my clients (wedding couples and corporate clients) and they haven't calibrated there monitors, then the images will look bad right?

I mean, if you think about it, most people I know use mac computers these days, most of my corporate clients do anyway (marketing depts) aside from the backroom accounting fellows and even then mostly macs. And definitely my wedding clients do, I've asked, and don't think I've had a single PC user. So if my monitor and there monitor are mac monitors that are calibrated very similar, then shouldn't that give the best on screen results? Rather then me having a calibrated monitor and nobody else has one?!

Just some thoughts, maybe someone can chime in.

And while on the subject, if I used an X-rite passport for instance to calibrate my LR to suit my camera.. Can I go in and mess with the colors and resave the settings? As in, say I wanted my greens more minty, can I do a "proper" outdoor calibration, then minty up my greens and resave the calibration?




Feb 04, 2014 at 02:15 AM
schlotz
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Funny calibration question..


Website purposes indicates to me that sRGB is sufficient. Given that, if you edit your work on a color managed system and then export that work converting the output to sRGB then what they view and/or port to their websites should be correct. JMTC


Feb 04, 2014 at 08:47 AM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Funny calibration question..


I dont get it... Maybe I'm not explaining it right.

So if I look at my wife's MBP and mine, they have almost identical colors. If I calibrate my MBP and then it becomes WAY more red then hers, and I edit a photo to make it look neutral to my computer/my eye. Then send it to her, won't it be really green on her screen to account for the shift in red on mine?

So unless I'm missing something, it's better to not calibrate the monitor that will be used for digital output?



Feb 04, 2014 at 12:39 PM
Eyeball
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Funny calibration question..


By calibrating and profiling your monitor, you're setting your monitor to a known standard. Many of your viewers, particularly those NOT calibrating and profiling THEIR monitors, will see something different but your objective is to fall in the middle of the bell-shaped curve of possible viewing experiences. It is the best you can do. Like many things in life, you only have control over those things that are in your control.

If you want to TRY to influence a viewers experience, you could put a gray scale on your web site or provide a link to a web site that has basic monitor adjustment aids like this one:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

It won't be anything as precise as a hardware calibrator/profiler and even a site like that may be over the heads of some viewers, but it's an option.

Probably the most common deviation between a viewer's monitor and yours, especially if you have calibrated for prints at a lower luminance level, is that a viewer may see your images brighter than you normally see them on your monitor. It's likely that the viewer has become accustomed to that though, so I probably wouldn't worry much about that either.

Regarding your question about the passport, yes, you can tweak the camera calibration and save it if you use Adobe's DNG Profile Editor. The X-rite software may also allow you do tweaks but I don't normally use it so I'm not sure. The Adobe DNG Profile Editor is free and works fine with the Passport.




Feb 04, 2014 at 01:15 PM
Mirek Elsner
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Funny calibration question..


adamdewilde wrote:
I dont get it... Maybe I'm not explaining it right.

So if I look at my wife's MBP and mine, they have almost identical colors. If I calibrate my MBP and then it becomes WAY more red then hers, and I edit a photo to make it look neutral to my computer/my eye. Then send it to her, won't it be really green on her screen to account for the shift in red on mine?

So unless I'm missing something, it's better to not calibrate the monitor that will be used for digital output?


Monitor calibration has lots of variables. You can chose different white point temperature, gamma and brightness on different displays. They will all look different side by side, but they will be all calibrated - just to different standards. If your output is typically for display, you can chose calibration settings that are appropriate for this - for example white point D65, gamma 2.2 and probably not very low brightness. Calibration is always a good idea. It gives you insight to your own settings.




Feb 04, 2014 at 07:29 PM
Mirek Elsner
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Funny calibration question..


adamdewilde wrote:
And while on the subject, if I used an X-rite passport for instance to calibrate my LR to suit my camera.. Can I go in and mess with the colors and resave the settings? As in, say I wanted my greens more minty, can I do a "proper" outdoor calibration, then minty up my greens and resave the calibration?



You can do it in the free Adobe DNG Profile Editor (after shooting the Passport or ordinary color checker), or in QPCalibration (after shooting QPCard and using their paid plugin) but I am not sure if the Passport software allows this.



Feb 04, 2014 at 07:34 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Funny calibration question..


adamdewilde wrote:
I dont get it... Maybe I'm not explaining it right.

So if I look at my wife's MBP and mine, they have almost identical colors. If I calibrate my MBP and then it becomes WAY more red then hers, and I edit a photo to make it look neutral to my computer/my eye. Then send it to her, won't it be really green on her screen to account for the shift in red on mine?

So unless I'm missing something, it's better to not calibrate the monitor that will be used for digital output?


No, because not everyone will have a MBP from the same batch or model. Maybe a different laptop would make it look way green or way dark or this or that.

adding in your random, non-calibrated monitor to the mix doesn't help anything



Feb 04, 2014 at 09:57 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Funny calibration question..


It is never better to run an un-calibrated monitor, and if you are printing, it is always better to have a calibrated monitor.

When you do printer/paper profiles, you are not calibrating the printer, you are creating profiles for each paper you use with your inkset and your printer. For the most part, paper manufacturer’s profile will be more than adequate.

Brian A



Feb 04, 2014 at 10:46 PM
mhayes5254
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Funny calibration question..


I have the Colormunki and calibrate the monitor on my iMac. I no longer make printer profiles because the canned profiles are fine, as Brian mentioned. I also used Colorchecker to calibrate my camera. That did give a noticeable improvement


Feb 05, 2014 at 02:07 AM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Funny calibration question..


Interesting thanks for the response, I guess I get it now.. I'm closer to standard, so my divation isn't taken into account along with others deviation.. And the reason mine and my wifes computer looks the same, is we have to same model from the same batch, bought at the same time (AND we got lucky I suppose).


About the colormunki and colormunki photo... You all recommend to not bother with the photo? It's more $$ so if I can get away with just buying a calibrator for the monitor, and a passport for the camera, and you all think the paper ICC provided by the printer is fine, I might just save money and buy paper?

If that's the case, I have an old spyder calibrator from 2006, would that do?



Feb 05, 2014 at 02:35 AM
Mirek Elsner
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Funny calibration question..


adamdewilde wrote:
About the colormunki and colormunki photo... You all recommend to not bother with the photo? It's more $$ so if I can get away with just buying a calibrator for the monitor, and a passport for the camera,


ColorMunki Photo is a spectrophotometer and ColorMunki Display is a colorimeter. Photo is a much more universal device and can make profiles of printers, measure individual colors of objects, spectral charts of light sources, Dmax of prints etc. If you don't need that, a colorimeter will be fine (or even better). If you decide to get a colorimeter though, consider if the features of ColorMunki Display are sufficient. The more expensive i1 Display Pro comes with more flexible software and makes the measurements faster.


... and you all think the paper ICC provided by the printer is fine, I might just save money and buy paper?

If that's the case, I have an old spyder calibrator from 2006, would that do?


I think it depends on the printer and paper manufacturer. I have an Epson 3880 and manufacturer provided profiles for all papers I happen to use are are as good or better than what I can generate with ColorMunki Photo. But my previous consumer grade Canon printer was not supported very much and I had a hard time to find any profiles at all.



Feb 05, 2014 at 11:14 AM
hugowolf
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Funny calibration question..


adamdewilde wrote:
and you all think the paper ICC provided by the printer is fine, I might just save money and buy paper?


Providing there are good profiles available for your printer by the paper manufacturers and refactorers.

adamdewilde wrote:
If that's the case, I have an old spyder calibrator from 2006, would that do?


It might, but my passed experiences with DataColor devices have not been good.

Laptop monitors tend to be more difficult to calibrate than good desktop monitors.

Brian A



Feb 05, 2014 at 11:43 AM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Funny calibration question..


Hi Mirek,

Thanks for the tips. To be honest, I'd rather save the money, as I've been having someone decent luck with my Pro-1 and Pro-100 printers as far as having the profiles for the papers I've been using, and am planning on buying. It's just that I think output is a bit wonky because I think that my monitor may not be quite right, or my eyes maybe?!

I think the missing link here is the color checker passport to calibrate my cameras, and the display calibration. I'd gladly pay the extra money IF my prints would be vastly improved, but it seems that isn't the case, so maybe I should just get the colorimeter instead.

So anyone have opinions on colorchecker passport or colormunki monitor calibrator?



Feb 05, 2014 at 01:54 PM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Funny calibration question..


hugowolf wrote:
Providing there are good profiles available for your printer by the paper manufacturers and refactorers.

It might, but my passed experiences with DataColor devices have not been good.

Laptop monitors tend to be more difficult to calibrate than good desktop monitors.

Brian A



Brian - I'm in the same boat, I never had good luck with that spyder on my older imac and laptops, which is why I never bothered doing it for the last 4 years on my new computers.

Hopefully x-rite colormunki has some good praises?



Feb 05, 2014 at 01:56 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Funny calibration question..


adamdewilde wrote:
Brian - I'm in the same boat, I never had good luck with that spyder on my older imac and laptops, which is why I never bothered doing it for the last 4 years on my new computers.

Hopefully x-rite colormunki has some good praises?


If you are going for a colorimeter rather than a spectrophotometer, then I would recomend the i1Display Pro over the ColorMunki Display. I think it is the same hardware, but the software is much better and more flexible.

In my opinion, it is worth the price difference.

Brian A



Feb 05, 2014 at 07:48 PM
Mirek Elsner
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Funny calibration question..


adamdewilde wrote:
So anyone have opinions on colorchecker passport or colormunki monitor calibrator?


On ColorChecker Passport, I like the target, but not so much the software. It makes too saturated colors, to my taste. I prefer the Adobe DNG Profile Editor or QPCalibration. I like the colors from my own profiles better than the Adobe ones, but don't expect groundbreaking difference, just relatively subtle changes.

On ColorMunki Display - like I said before, consider the i1Display Pro. Better software and faster operation. Better software can be useful if you decide to calibrate to specific conditions, for example to match your print output. Also, it seems to be better supported by third party calibration applications, if you decide to upgrade or try some.



Feb 06, 2014 at 12:16 AM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Funny calibration question..


Thanks Mirek and Brian, I'll look up the i1Display Pro!






Feb 06, 2014 at 01:55 AM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Funny calibration question..


After looking up the i1display pro, I'm reading a lot of bad reviews.

If I moved away from x-rite and just went with a monitor calibrator and color swatch for my camera, what would you all recommend?



Feb 06, 2014 at 02:21 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Funny calibration question..


Are you sure? The iOne Display Pro has consistently tested and has been rated the best calibrator on the market, next to the $1300 Discus calibrator from Basic Color.


Feb 06, 2014 at 02:50 AM
adamdewilde
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Funny calibration question..


Yeah weirdly enough the reviews I've read have been 50/50... I'm going to chalk it up to user error. I've placed my order, so hopefully I don't have to send it back as international shipping is a bit steep on returns.

Also ordered an X-rite Colorchecker passport, seems like the best option for me (it was cheap, as it came in a bundle).

If all works out well, I won't have to splurge for a spectrometer to get my prints right. Lets hope!


Any tips for getting the best calibration results?



Feb 06, 2014 at 07:50 AM





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