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Archive 2014 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)

  
 
Ogrinz
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


Does anyone at home print their own stuff and then mount it to various substrates such as Gatorboard, foam core etc?

I had been thinking about ordering a huge print of a panorama that I took in St. Thomas on Vacation, specifically from Bumblejax. Unfortunately for the size I want the cost is prohibitive to say the least. I began looking at other places to have the print done and thought maybe a multi panel would be cheaper. It is somewhat cheaper, but from a reputable printer (Millers, WHCC, Bay) anything mounted is just as expensive.

I them located the current Canon Pixma Pro-100 offer which is $100 cost (after rebate) and comes with 50 sheets of 13x19. I was able to find a source that sells the various substrates, but of course they don't come in 13x19 which would require cutting down to size of the board. I was thinking of a 5 panel panorama (65X19) which after ordering the board and printer puts me well under the price of the print and net a printer at the same time.

Unless I'm missing something it seems printing at home and then self mounting would be dramatically cheaper then anything online. It looks like all that is done is they print the image and then glue it to the board which seems rediculous to take $10 worth of material and charges $50 for it. It seems printing at home is pretty rare and im not finding a lot of information on this stuff. I did locate some other places that multi panels, but they are so much cheaper it begs the question of quality at that point.

Thoughts or recommendations?



Feb 01, 2014 at 12:50 PM
cwebster
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


You can use 3M mounting spray to do that. Be careful because it's not repositionable, so you have to get your prints positioned exactly where you want them, the first time. There is NO SECOND CHANCE.


But that's standard procedure with any, or almost any contact adhesive, and if you can deal with it it works well and does not discolor the print as it ages. Beware of non-photo adhesives because many will discolor your print as the adhesive ages.

<Chas>



Feb 01, 2014 at 01:49 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


If you want to mount prints to boards the same size as the print, then you really need heat activated mounting tissue and a hot dry mount press. (Search youTube for dry mounting.)

If you are doing a one off, you are better with the paper larger than the board, and then trimming. You can use something like 3M 568 Positionable Mounting Adhesive; it is about $1 per sq ft.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=3m+568&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=37941049536&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9696852911603610963&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_779k25x5ff_b

Unsupported foam board will often warp; in fact more often than not it will warp. Gator or Sintra is better, but more difficult to work with and much more expensive. Gator can be cut with a knife and straight edge (several shallow cuts, not all the way through at once), but Sintra needs a table saw.

Then you need to figure out how you will attach hanging components to the back.

Brian A



Feb 01, 2014 at 02:57 PM
msalvetti
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


How about a 60"x20" canvas? You can get one from CGPro Prints for $75 plus shipping. I bet the total will be around $100. I had them do a large canvas for me, and it came out great.
http://www.cgproprints.com/pricing

Mark



Feb 01, 2014 at 07:09 PM
JakeB17
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


msalvetti wrote:
How about a 60"x20" canvas? You can get one from CGPro Prints for $75 plus shipping. I bet the total will be around $100. I had them do a large canvas for me, and it came out great.
http://www.cgproprints.com/pricing

Mark


That's pretty inexpensive for a canvas that size. In fact it looks like all their prices are well below the average for canvas prints. How the quality compare to some of the other well known print shops that do canvas?



Feb 01, 2014 at 07:23 PM
msalvetti
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


I was really impressed. Go to this thread from 2012 where I critique a large pano I had done by them: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1116103/0

I had received an email from Digital Wedding Forum that they were having a sale. Even without the sale, the prices seemed too low. I decided to try them, and I thought they did a great job on my image. It's been hanging in my office for 18 months now, and it still looks fantastic.

Mark



Feb 01, 2014 at 08:51 PM
BluesWest
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


You can get one from CGPro Prints for $75 plus shipping. had them do a large canvas for me, and it came out great.

I had one done by them and it was simply awful. Would never do business with them again.

John



Feb 02, 2014 at 02:30 PM
Bifurcator
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


Ogrinz wrote:
Does anyone at home print their own stuff and then mount it to various substrates such as Gatorboard, foam core etc?

I had been thinking about ordering a huge print of a panorama that I took in St. Thomas on Vacation, specifically from Bumblejax. Unfortunately for the size I want the cost is prohibitive to say the least. I began looking at other places to have the print done and thought maybe a multi panel would be cheaper. It is somewhat cheaper, but from a reputable printer (Millers, WHCC, Bay) anything mounted is just as expensive.

I them located the current Canon
...Show more

I can't recommend anything outside of Japan cuz I just don't know but I can second your conclusion: When things get too expensive then it's time to start looking into home made (DIY) solutions.

Printing multiple images and tilling them together is fun but can be a little challenging if there are a lot of tiles. I did a corner of a building that way (s an exhibit) with like 20 across and 8 or 10 high and it was work.

Single/double/triple tiles is easier but still ya have to be a little careful printing/cutting perfectly straight. The seams do show. Glossy is the worst and the more matt and texture a paper has the less it shows.

I haven't tried "dry pressing" with heat as mentioned above - that sounds interesting. Spray-glue works - I think 44 is the number on the 3M can. There's 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, 101, 111, and probably more. The bigger the number the harder the glue I think is how it goes. I bought one of each once to see and that was basically it. I think the cans say that 44 and 55 are good for paper. All of them melt styrofoam so careful with that if you're mounting to hardware store blanks (spray from 4 feet away and just mist it). I wonder what clear plexiglass would look like if it were LED backlit (into the edges)?

Anyway, home printing is cheap enough that there's lots of room for experimentation and creativity - the hardware store and art supply shops probably have a bunch of stuff to play with affordably…



Feb 02, 2014 at 07:42 PM
time2clmb
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


You get what you pay for. The printer you want isn't going to output the same quality as having it done at BJx. The time you will put in during the learning curve also costs you. The $75 canvas is going to be shit, or inconsistent at the very least.

seems rediculous to take $10 worth of material and charges $50 for it.

It would be much better to take $10 of material and charge $10 for it. Seems like a great way to run a company. Or perhaps they can charge $20 to keep you happy rather than actually pay for their staff, marketing, materials....



Feb 02, 2014 at 08:17 PM
Bifurcator
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


(I think) you might "get what you pay for" but you're paying someone else to operate the printer (labor) and not really better print quality. Some guys (some very very extremely absurdly anal guys) say they can see the difference between professional print output and a goodish home printer but I spent hours with an actual magnifying glass going over several such and there was no detectable difference at all.

A decent 7-ink printer costing $90 to $200 is all ya need for actual professional quality output consistent in batches as you might want for a tile print run.

Also the learning curve can be looked at as either a loss of time or a savings of money and a gain in experience.



Feb 02, 2014 at 10:44 PM
Ogrinz
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


time2clmb wrote:
You get what you pay for. The printer you want isn't going to output the same quality as having it done at BJx. The time you will put in during the learning curve also costs you. The $75 canvas is going to be shit, or inconsistent at the very least.

It would be much better to take $10 of material and charge $10 for it. Seems like a great way to run a company. Or perhaps they can charge $20 to keep you happy rather than actually pay for their staff, marketing, materials....


Obviously BJx is top end quality and one day, money permitting I will have a huge print behind acrylic in my home. Unfortunately right now I cant justify a $400 print. That said obviously businesses exist to make money, Im just surprised at the HUGE markup on mounting something to Gatorboard. All the print houses have great prices on the prints alone, but the cost to glue them to a piece of backing is absurd.

After reading a ton of reviews on the company for the cheap canvas I decided to buy the printer and gatorboard. I personally dont like the canvas grain look and think the printer although not top end will give me a great panel panorama for the same cost.



Feb 03, 2014 at 08:05 PM
Mr Joe
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


A piece of gatorboard that big won't stay flat. Mounting to something more rigid like plexi is optimal.


Feb 03, 2014 at 09:04 PM
smjphoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


"Anyone can make a good print with a good home printer" is just like "Anyone can take a good picture with a good camera."

They both have some basis in truth, but really grossly understate that both endeavors are a lot more involved than they appear at first glance. Don't get me wrong, I take good pictures and I print profession quality prints. Sure you can do it, but don't expect it to be simple to produce consistently high quality work. It takes the same kind of learning and work to get proficient at printing as it does to master taking photos. And I think its well worth doing… its just not trivial.

And don't underestimate the costs. When you compare your costs for truly equivalent materials, you will be shocked. If you don't care about archival materials, things are definitely cheaper, but don't kid yourself about longevity.
Gator board isn't cheap. Spray adhesives don't last. The canon printer you mention doesn't use pigment ink. Acid free foam core and mat boards cost at least twice as much as regular. Regular photo papers are not designed to be hung with out glass or plexi.

Everybody is always looking for the easiest and cheapest way to mount and display prints. Unfortunately, its pretty time consuming and somewhat costly to get to an attractive solution that also protects the art and will stand the test of time.

All that said, I think it is all worth it. Nice prints displayed well are great and very gratifying.
Best of luck!
Stuart



Feb 03, 2014 at 09:45 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


Ogrinz wrote:
.... All the print houses have great prices on the prints alone, but the cost to glue them to a piece of backing is absurd.
.


There is nothing absurd about it, ink and paper costs are nothing compared to the labor/time involved in dry mounting as you appear to be shortly finding out..

Brian A



Feb 03, 2014 at 09:48 PM
Dan Berg
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


Mr Joe wrote:
A piece of gatorboard that big won't stay flat. Mounting to something more rigid like plexi is optimal.


Well it depends what size you are referring to.
If it is 20x 60 then I can tell you for a fact it will stay flat because I do this for a living.
We are talking Gatorboard not foamboard.
We use 3/16" for smaller sizes up to 20x30.
For most of the larger panos(and we do alot of them) we use 3/8" or 1/2"
All canvas are wet mounted with Miracle Muck. They may look like a potatoe chip until they are dry then they are flat-flat. Many are then put in a frame for display, not to keep them flat.
We also mount canvas on Aluminum Dibond and Multiply ply core both excellent ways to display without a frame.

Dan Berg
www.bergscanvasgallery.com



Feb 04, 2014 at 06:21 AM
Bifurcator
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


smjphoto wrote:
"Anyone can make a good print with a good home printer" is just like "Anyone can take a good picture with a good camera."

They both have some basis in truth, but really grossly understate that both endeavors are a lot more involved than they appear at first glance. Don't get me wrong, I take good pictures and I print profession quality prints. Sure you can do it, but don't expect it to be simple to produce consistently high quality work. It takes the same kind of learning and work to get proficient at printing as it does to master
...Show more

I don't agree about cost (at all!!!) but your point about expertise and involvement is relevant. Printing is of course a process. Learning the printer is probably the biggest chore. Getting the output to perceptually match what you see on the screen and maybe learning what looks better hanging on the wall than ½ meter in front of your face on you monitor. But even still it's not all that difficult - I can sus it in a few hours usually. Knowing about test-strips and using those helps a lot.

But the question of whether a professional printer knows all this too comes to mind. I usually find that they do not! I can learn to like what I get back from them but it's (typically) not as good as what I can do at home after a few tests. For them to be able to match my own abilities they would at first have to know the color temperature of the lights I'm using in the room I intend to hang it in. Now, when was the last time a professional print service asked you about the color temperature of your room lighting? And etc. etc. etc….

And cost like I say is nowhere even close. I can run all my tests and mount an 8x10 (A4) in a beautifully sculpted wooden frame with anti-glare acetate cover, 45 deg beveled matting or even double matting for around $10. That includes the ink and electricity and even the life reduction of the printer itself. The same is $50 to $75 from a print studio, doesn't include frame, and I didn't get to tune it to my sense of perfection. So yes, it's not a trivial matter but it's doable for anyone with an eye toward these things and beneficial both in the final resulting IQ and in cost savings. And of course with a little practice you also now have a marketable skill should you decide to make use of it professionally.



Feb 04, 2014 at 08:42 AM
ratherfish
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


My experience is much like Bifurcator's. I get more accurate prints when I print them myself. As far as mounting, I do my own and recommend self-adhesive Gatorfoam if your goal is decorative mounting, as opposed to conservation or archival mounting. Self-adhesive is pretty easy to work with and if mounted properly, I've never had it release, even after more than a decade. For your large, multi-panel display, I would definitely go for the more expensive Gatorfoam and not the generic, less expensive foamboard, as it can often warp. That's not a huge problem on a smaller image, but panel warping would make your large, multi-panel display look pretty bad. Finally, there are plenty of videos on YouTube about how to mount photos on self-adhesive foamboard. There are also some good ones at the Foamboardsource website. Watch them before you start and you'll save yourself some grief. Have fun with it and enjoy the feeling of having done it yourself, just the way you wanted it!


Feb 04, 2014 at 09:15 AM
Ogrinz
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Home printing and mounting to substrate (Gatorboard etc)


The printer gets here Friday and unknown about the Gatorboard at this time. I assume there will be some wasted prints and gatoboard adding into the cost considering this is my first mounting attempt, but it should still be much cheaper. Of course the time investment cost is still yet to be seen. Pics will be posted of finished result.

Im curious about some of the feedback and thoughts on home printing. Maybe its just me, but 100+ year archival life is irrelevant. I wish I could say I had taken a photograph of something so unique and awe inspiring that it warranted that level of concern and maybe some of you have. This pano is for home decoration that in all reality will probably be replaced by later photographs of whatever. If it lasts over five years in the house as decoration I would be surprised. Even if it was so great surely most of here realize that in all reality our work is mostly for ourselves (bar those that sell) and once we die nobody will think twice about our prints and they will more then likely end up in the trash.



Feb 05, 2014 at 11:14 AM





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