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Archive 2014 · Files for personal use.

g-money
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Files for personal use.

This is something I have run across several times in the past couple months that I would like your opinion on. Bride or a senior writes you and says she is needing digital copies of some engagement / senior pictures for save the date, wedding announcement or graduation cards. I write back and explain that I would be happy to design the cards myself and have them printed. They see the price and say they can do it on line cheaper. I have also had them wanting digital copies of their favorites for a slideshow they will be running before their ceremony on the wedding day and they want a copy without my watermark.

Today I received an email from one of my brides stating she had just placed an order for engagement pictures and would like to get the digital copy of each one of these for her save the date announcements they are designing on line. I checked the order and all she ordered was 6 / 4x6's and 2 / 5x7's. woot!

I have no idea where she got the idea that she would get a digital copy of the files she purchased. My business model is you get a disk of wedding day images, bridals or engagement you may purchase prints or the disk a la carte.

I know she probably does not want to spend several hundred on a disk of all the images but I don't want her to think I am nickel & dimeing her if I tell her she will have to purchase the files separately especially since she is already expecting them free. I sort of see hard feeling coming from this. I was actually willing to give her the files if the print order had been larger.

Any suggestions on charging for individual files or how to handle clients that don't understand that I can't just give them the high rez files because they want to design their own cards.

Greg

Jan 30, 2014 at 04:22 PM

G-Gore
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Files for personal use.

When they book you, they don't know they are not getting files? Only option to order prints? Is it only for e-sessions? Did the couple who had their e-session done, already booked you for a wedding?

Jan 30, 2014 at 07:47 PM

Robin Usagani
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Files for personal use.

Tell her to buy a 8x12, scan it, then order the card them self.

just kidding.

Jan 30, 2014 at 08:08 PM

g-money
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Files for personal use.

G-Gore wrote:
When they book you, they don't know they are not getting files? Only option to order prints? Is it only for e-sessions? Did the couple who had their e-session done, already booked you for a wedding?

I know the way I typed this up some may have misread as I am having a hard time trying to get across everything going through my head. Yes they, know exactly what they are getting when they book and yes they had already booked me for the wedding. The engagement session was part of the package. It clearly states they will get a disk of wedding day images. I try to remember to tell them in the consultation that engagement and bridals images may be purchased a la carte and no disk of images comes with it but can be purchased separately. In this case she is not asking for all of them just about 7 or 8

It really has never been an issue till lately when I seem to have had a rash of people asking for files so they can either design some sort of card or to use them in slideshows of their own making.

And yes Robin I am surprised they just don't scan the 4x6's they purchased

Jan 30, 2014 at 08:33 PM

lilyphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Files for personal use.

Honestly, I think your policy lends itself to confusion. If they're getting wedding day image files, why are they not getting engagement and bridal session files as well? If you happen to forget to mention this fact (which sounds like you sometimes do, re: "I try to remember to tell them") you can be pretty sure they'll assume they get the files/dvd for the engagement session as well.

I would give her the files she's asking for.

Jan 30, 2014 at 08:50 PM

scottam10
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Files for personal use.

Agree with lilyphoto. If you're giving them the wedding day image files, why not give them the engagement files as well?
- they probably chose you because they thought your package included the files for both the e-session and wedding day.

Agree that selling files makes sense for a small job like a 'seniors' session, but when they're spending several thousand on wedding coverage I guess many people expect to have files included.

If you need more money, just raise the price of the package so it includes the files, rather than charging extra for it - this seems greedy, especially as she's purchased the 4x6s.

Jan 30, 2014 at 09:08 PM

nolaguy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Files for personal use.

lilyphoto wrote:
Honestly, I think your policy lends itself to confusion. If they're getting wedding day image files, why are they not getting engagement and bridal session files as well? If you happen to forget to mention this fact (which sounds like you sometimes do, re: "I try to remember to tell them") you can be pretty sure they'll assume they get the files/dvd for the engagement session as well.

I would give her the files she's asking for.

+1

The inconsistency is the devil here.

If you choose to stay with the same policy in the future, the lack of files for engagement and bridal sessions should be spelled out in writing - with a parenthesized caveat in the wedding section of the contract making clear that the wedding file deal doesn't apply to other sessions. That alone makes the inconsistency so glaring it might be motivation to rethink it.

Jan 30, 2014 at 09:21 PM

Ryan Britton
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Files for personal use.

We have one package (our lowest) where the engagement files are not included, and it's something we specifically cover in the consultation to avoid confusion. About 25% of the couples that book that buy the disc ala carte.

We charge $50 per file, $200 for five, $300 for ten, or $400 for all on engagement sessions. These are listed online in the print ordering system so they're confronted with the price as a hint that the file is not included.

Jan 30, 2014 at 09:46 PM

Scott Mosher
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Files for personal use.

Jan 31, 2014 at 01:23 AM

Prettym1k3
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Files for personal use.

This is why we don't do sales like this.

First of all, I don't have time to sit down and do in person sales. I'm too busy, and the money isn't there for me.

Second of all, clients are confused. We've had so many clients come to us and say, "We had a portrait session for $200, but then when we went to view the images 6 weeks later, they told us the digital files were $1,000 and I just about cried. They were pictures of my infant baby I can never get back!"

It just seems like shady business practices to me. Yes, you can educate your clients as much as you want, but that information just doesn't stick in their heads sometimes. They don't read the contract, and they don't listen to you.

Up your prices. Include digital files. Done.

Jan 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM

SloPhoto
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Files for personal use.

Yea, at least buy in to one sales method.

It is hard enough to explain why they do not get files even when that is your policy for everything.

Jan 31, 2014 at 12:10 PM

g-money
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Files for personal use.

Thanks all! I see where you are coming from and understand if your business model has always been give the files away on everything that it very easy to say just give them the files, raise your pricing to cover it etc. First I am not yet convinced my model is terribly flawed as this has never been an issue before and have not had any client complaint or be surprised to find the disk of engagements didn't come with the package so I find it odd that after 6 years it is just now rearing it's head and that is why I thought I would ask everyone here. Let me push forward with this a bit.

I do include the disk of images from the engagement and bridals etc with my top package. Not the lesser one's which she purchased so that is covered there. My site explains everything in pretty simple terms I think.

Why are they not getting the engagement files if I am includeing the wedding day files? Well I have made a pretty good chunk of money in the past on print sales by not including these images on disk. Usually it will add anywhere from $300 to $1000 to the bottom line of income from a client and or family members who purchase prints. I know many people say print sales is dead for them. Sure it is when we give the files away on every shoot we do. Very few will purchase at our rates if given a choice.

I know what I am about to say some will disagree with, but I can assure you in my location if I raise my prices another $500 to $700 that would make up the difference of lost revenue by including the disk I might book 4 or 5 weddings a year in my area. My prices are already low compared to many of you and I am the 2nd highest priced photographer in my area. Trust me I would love to charge more, but I also know my neighborhood and the money isn't here.

I appreciate the input and lots of food for thought going forward as to whether I should change things up to avoid confusion on the clients end or keep things as is and just do a better job of making sure they know that if they want digital files from all the session they need to purchase a different package.

Greg

Jan 31, 2014 at 03:07 PM

SloPhoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Files for personal use.

g-money wrote:
Thanks all! I see where you are coming from and understand if your business model has always been give the files away on everything that it very easy to say just give them the files, raise your pricing to cover it etc. First I am not yet convinced my model is terribly flawed as this has never been an issue before and have not had any client complaint or be surprised to find the disk of engagements didn't come with the package so I find it odd that after 6 years it is just now rearing it's head and that...Show more →

FWIW, If I did not read the top end package description (which many will skip) I would NOT expect to have the e-session delivery be different than the wedding delivery.

Jan 31, 2014 at 03:26 PM

g-money
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Files for personal use.

Thanks SloPhoto and I get what everyone is saying, I am just trying to process this as to what will work best for me going forward. Out of curiosity do you put any emphasis on print sales with your model or are you happy getting paid up front and then not worry about the hassle of fulfilling print orders?

Greg

Jan 31, 2014 at 03:48 PM

SloPhoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Files for personal use.

g-money wrote:
Thanks SloPhoto and I get what everyone is saying, I am just trying to process this as to what will work best for me going forward. Out of curiosity do you put any emphasis on print sales with your model or are you happy getting paid up front and then not worry about the hassle of fulfilling print orders?

Greg

Im not a full time pro in the slightest, so I cant help you there.

I will say that your wording could be more clear if you still want to continue the dual delivery type thingy.

Jan 31, 2014 at 04:14 PM

nolaguy
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Files for personal use.

I hear you Greg and you are justifiably cautious in changing your business model based on one confused customer and a handful of forum posts.

There are always many ways to look at things - and spin things - and I don't mean that in a negative way.

I still think the distinction between policies needs to be made CRYSTAL clear... but perhaps add marketing spin and emphasis on WHY.

...e.g. Weddings are events, not portrait sessions... the here, the now, the moment... all so real time... yada yada... less editing/retouching, more stellar captures-of-the-moment........

Engagement sessions aren't events... they're portrait sessions, much more carefully composed, captured, edited... shot for shot, they involve much more overhead per shot, much more attention to detail (because it's possible in that more controlled session).... etc, etc

If the client doesn't have access to all/most of the "event" images, perhaps portions of the story are absent, and so on - making delivery of the digital files completely in sync with the nature of the work. With portrait photography (engagement, bridal), not so much.

Perhaps emphasize that different photography categories hold different value propositions and DUH, OF COURSE... they involve different fulfillment and compensation expectations from both parties.

I'm really just pondering the matter real time and thinking out loud here.

Jan 31, 2014 at 07:48 PM


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