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Archive 2014 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape

  
 
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


I have the TS17 and the TS24 and A7r/metabones and Canon 5diii
(and 5dii and 24-70v1, 17-40, 24-105, zeiss 15/2.8, zeiss 35/1.4, canon 85/1.2 to name a few).

I love my TS17 for its shift. My focus is landscape and it permits fixing leaning and bowed trees that ocur with non shifted lens). I seldom use my tilt because usually there is a vertical foreground item (trees) and the plane of focus cuts through it where I shoot (mountains)

I use my TS24 a lot less. Primarly because my tendency is for big views.But I also like the TS24 for shifting to avoid uwa distortion.

I am tempted to TS45 or TS90. Eventually I will buy both, I suspect but I try to buy one piece of equipement at a time to ensure I get to know it.

Last weekend I was shooting the 24-70 down a river and was not happy with the tilted trees and found it too short. Usually I carry my 24-105 but I thought I would give my 24-70 another try but again concluded that I should carry my 24-105 instead because I rarely use it but when I do, the 70-105 is usually where I use it). So my inclination is to the ts90.

I am also tempted by the tilt/f2.8/shift on either TS45 or TS90 to try with my astrotrac to achieve non bowed trees with northern lights. This suggests the TS45/f2.8

From what I have read, the plus/minuses are:

1) The TS90 is very sharp centre to edge wide open. ts90 is signifcantly sharper than ts45. TS45 is sharp at f8 but not useable for stars at f2.8.

2) ts90 only permits shifting with tilt in landscape mode because the tilt and shift are locked together. I have not handled the TS45 but suspect it is the same. I can achieve 45 with my 2x on the 24. And if you look at the digital picture the quality is comparable with the ts45

3) There is a chance that TS45 or TS90 might be updated. Buying now might leave me wanting in the future.

Questions:

1) Anyone use the ts90 for landscapse. Recommend it or overkill?

2) 45 vs 90?

3) What am I missiing?

Thanks in advance. Scott



Jan 24, 2014 at 10:40 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


I have an other "other". Have you considered using medium format lenses with a tilt-shift adapter? I have the TS-E 17/4L and 24/3.5L II, as well as a Mirex M645 to EOS T-S adapter and a variety of Mamiya 645 lenses.


Jan 24, 2014 at 10:49 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


jcolwell wrote:
I have an other "other". Have you considered using medium format lenses with a tilt-shift adapter? I have the TS-E 17/4L and 24/3.5L II, as well as a Mirex M645 to EOS T-S adapter and a variety of Mamiya 645 lenses.


No I had not. Is there a Mamiya long shift lens that you think would be useful to consider. I am open to something better than the TS90.

I shall start googling.

I see a mamiya mount - 120MM F5.6 T/S ASPHERICAL DESIGNED BY SCHNEIDER-KREUZNACH - but f5.6 is a bit slow. I will do more reading.


Thanks for the suggestion. Scott

Edited on Jan 24, 2014 at 11:01 AM · View previous versions



Jan 24, 2014 at 10:54 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Scott -- You and I have different objectives and priorities. So I don't know if my experience will help at all.

Of the two lenses, I prefer the 45 TSE. When going to the 90 TSE, I usually grab my 100L macro instead. I love the wide open look of the 45, it's very "Leica-like" in its colors and softer edge contrast. But it sharpens up well stopped down and the CA removed via LR. I admit to using it less since I got the 50/1.2L, but still want it around, even without the T&S features.

Yes, the tilt is locked into position, but can be reoriented (by Canon for free, or by yourself if you are handy with small screws), but not rotated like the 17 and 24 II.

For my use, the 50L and 100L macro are more important than the 45 and 90 TSE models. But I still love 'em!



Jan 24, 2014 at 10:59 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Gunzorro wrote:
Scott -- You and I have different objectives and priorities. So I don't know if my experience will help at all.

Of the two lenses, I prefer the 45 TSE. When going to the 90 TSE, I usually grab my 100L macro instead. I love the wide open look of the 45, it's very "Leica-like" in its colors and softer edge contrast. But it sharpens up well stopped down and the CA removed via LR. I admit to using it less since I got the 50/1.2L, but still want it around, even without the T&S features.

Yes, the tilt is locked into
...Show more

Gunzorro - thanks. I was discounting the 45 because

when I compare the TS45 on thedigitalpicture.com http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=348&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=349&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0
it seems considerably weaker at f2.8

and I was hoping Canon would update it. They should be able to make the 45 sharper than the 24.

But the information for TS90 and TS45 is not abundent and thedigitalpicture might have tested a less than average performing TS45.

Its interesting to see that you would use the 90/Tilt for macro. I had not thought of that and maybe when I get closer to retirement that might be a bigger focus but for now hiking and big landscape is my pursuit.

I am okay with the TS90 only tilting in landscape mode because I tend to landscape mode. And I would just use my TS24 or TS17 rather than stitching the 45.

Thanks for the input. Scott

Edited on Jan 24, 2014 at 11:11 AM · View previous versions



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:09 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


I use the Mamiya 645 C 55/2.8N, C 80/2.8N, and A 150/2.8 on my Mirex. They're all excellent lenses. I also use the M645 C 80/4N Macro, A 120/4 Macro, and A 200/2.8 APO "straight up" with Fotodiox Pro M645 to EOS adapters.

I'm in the process of replacing my M645 C 35/3.5N with a SMC Pentax-FA 645 35/3.5, because I'm not happy with the M645 35/3.5 edges and corners.

Here's a thread with tons of Mirex/M645 links,

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1229056/0#11699305

Here's a more recent thread with many examples of M645 and other Alt T-S solutions,

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1219961






Jan 24, 2014 at 11:11 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


jcolwell wrote:
I use the Mamiya 645 C 55/2.8N, C 80/2.8N, and A 150/2.8 on my Mirex. They're all excellent lenses. I also use the M645 C 80/4N Macro, A 120/4 Macro, and A 200/2.8 APO "straight up" with Fotodiox Pro M645 to EOS adapters.

I'm in the process of replacing my M645 C 35/3.5N with a SMC Pentax-FA 645 35/3.5, because I'm not happy with the M645 35/3.5 edges and corners.

Here's a thread with tons of Mirex/M645 links,

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1229056/0#11699305

Here's a more recent thread with many examples of M645 and other Alt T-S solutions,

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1219961



Thanks I will read the links.

It seems that your focus is more macro.

Do you use a long Titl Shift for landscape. You think that it is make a significant improvement?


-----------------------------------------------------------
Woops - I need to read more carefully - you are saying the adapter converts all mamiya lens to tilt shift.

Interesting idea.

Edited on Jan 24, 2014 at 11:28 AM · View previous versions



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:15 AM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Both are excellent for landscapes although I am waiting for Canon to update both.

TS-90 example -

http://www.parrikar.com/blog/2010/03/16/storm-clouds-over-zuari/


TS-45 example -

http://www.parrikar.com/blog/2010/11/13/hliđarendi/



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:16 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Rajan Parrikar wrote:
Both are excellent for landscapes although I am waiting for Canon to update both.

TS-90 example -

http://www.parrikar.com/blog/2010/03/16/storm-clouds-over-zuari/

TS-45 example -

http://www.parrikar.com/blog/2010/11/13/hliđarendi/


Thanks Rajan -

thanks for the samples - much appreciated.

the need for an update is what was slowing me down in purchase. But if you follow the link to the thedigitalpicture above, and compare the TS90 vs TS24 (the gold standard) vs TS45, you would conclude that the TS45 is most in need of updating. It is relatively softer at f2.8 but sharpens up considerably with higher fstop.



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:22 AM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Scott Stoness wrote:
Thanks Rajan -

thanks for the samples - much appreciated.

the need for an update is what was slowing me down in purchase. But if you follow the link to the thedigitalpicture above, and compare the TS90 vs TS24 (the gold standard) vs TS45, you would conclude that the TS45 is most in need of updating. It is relatively softer at f2.8 but sharpens up considerably with higher fstop.


It also suffers from CA.





Jan 24, 2014 at 11:23 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Rajan Parrikar wrote:
It also suffers from CA.



Good to know its CA suffering - another reason to buy the TS90 first.



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:30 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Scott Stoness wrote:
..It seems that your focus is more macro.


Not at all. I do mostly scenic photography with T-S lenses. This recent thread that I linked above has examples of TS-E 17/4L and C 80/2.8N images that I took in Sept 2013.

Scott Stoness wrote:
Do you use a long Titl Shift for landscape. You think that it is make a significant improvement?


I think it's a significant improvement over cropping a wider lens.

I sometimes use the A 150/2.8 for "groundscapes", where tilt allows you to get an all-in-focus oblique photo of the ground, a few yards in front of the tripod.



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:32 AM
boingyman
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


For just landscape use and by what your stated lenses are I rather cover the longer focal lengths instead up to 400mm if possible. That will give you more versatility and options. Not to say 45 and 90 TS-E are not very good and fun tools. I would personally love all of the TS-E for a variety of photography in my dream world where I would actually have time to do so


Jan 24, 2014 at 11:35 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


boingyman wrote:
For just landscape use and by what your stated lenses are I rather cover the longer focal lengths instead up to 400mm if possible. That will give you more versatility and options. Not to say 45 and 90 TS-E are not very good and fun tools. I would personally love all of the TS-E for a variety of photography in my dream world where I would actually have time to do so


I should have said - I have the 70-200/2.8, 70/300, 100-400, 200-400 and 600v2. So the long is covered. I am only tempted to the 400/2.8 but practically I cannot bring 3 large 10,000$ lens with me everywhere.



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:42 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


jcolwell wrote:
Not at all. I do mostly scenic photography with T-S lenses. This recent thread that I linked above has examples of TS-E 17/4L and C 80/2.8N images that I took in Sept 2013.

I think it's a significant improvement over cropping a wider lens.

I sometimes use the A 150/2.8 for "groundscapes", where tilt allows you to get an all-in-focus oblique photo of the ground, a few yards in front of the tripod.


I did not read your first post as well as I should. Now I get that you have TS adapter for mamiya that works on all non tilt mamiya lens. My wife will not appreciate your advice.

Thank you for confirming that you think shifting and tilting at the long end is worthwhile.



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:46 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Scott -- It think before you make up your mind about how the CA might affect your pictures, you should see what it's like in real life!

Here is a test shot taken last January, when I was establishing the MFA setting on my 1Ds3 (came out as +2). Focus was on the small pots on the table in extremely contrasty light, including the white-on-white covering (corner detail).







Lightroom CA correction applied as default setting







Center crop with CA correction







Upper left corner with CA correction







Upper left corner without CA correction at LR default







Full image without CA correction applied



Edited on Jan 24, 2014 at 12:12 PM · View previous versions



Jan 24, 2014 at 11:55 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


I'm not saying there isn't CA, or that it gets more pronounced toward the edge of the image circle. I'm just saying it's minor and correctable.

Here's another natural light sample with relatively high contrast, after mild PP in LR5.





With LR CA enabled at default







With LR CA enabled at default



Edited on Jan 24, 2014 at 12:18 PM · View previous versions



Jan 24, 2014 at 12:07 PM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Gunzorro, my recollection is that CA on TS-E 45 becomes an issue with the movements. Certainly it is fixable in post processing. On the whole, it is a very good lens.


Jan 24, 2014 at 12:09 PM
burningheart
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


Scott

This doesn't directly answer your question as our shooting interests differ but here is my own experience with T+S lenses.

My collection

Canon 17,24,45,90, Nikon 85 the non E version,Hartblei 40,80,120

My choices of focal lengths are 17,24,40,45,80,85,90,120

Combining into groupings I normally make choices from
Group A 17,24
Group B 40,45
Group C 80,85,90
Group D 120

Analyzing what in general I use the most I find in order
24,40,80 with special mention to the 17

Limiting the debate to only focal length I found for my shooting the Canon 90 was too long for my personal landscape shooting style vs 85 or 80. Even when I carried all three lenses out in the Mountains or to Dinosaur Provincial Park I found most often the scene I wanted to shoot the 90 was the least used. Even then 80 and 85 were often too long.

The 45 for myself has one other knock is it hot spots with IR and since I shoot a lot of IR it fell into unjust disfavor. Putting IR aside the 45 is an in between focal length for me. I prefer shooting at 40 or 50. Granted weight-wise the 45 is easier to carry than the monster Hartblei 40. I will often carry a 40 or 50 prime instead.

For landscape the 40-45 I found I used it more than the 80-85-90 but a lot less than the 24 and on many trips the 40+ focal lengths didn't leave the bag.

At the end of the day I found for myself the 40+ are nice to haves and are used but often when it comes down to what to carry in my bag I at times skip those focal lengths or replace them with a prime 40 or 50, and/or a zoom 70-180 or 70-200.

Overkill for 45 and 90 T+S for landscape? No they are tools when you need them you'll have them. As flexible as something else such as a zoom. No, but you will live with as you say bowing.

All that said maybe this year I will focus on different shooting opportunities where I will use the 40-120s more often. That's the great thing about photography the only limits we have are those that we place on ourselves.










Jan 24, 2014 at 12:20 PM
drobertfranz
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · TS90 or TS45 for Landscape


I really like and use the 90TSE often for scenics. I really like shooting 3 image panos by shifting. It gives you a 2 1/2 to 1 pano that stitches nearly perfectly. You loose a bit of sharpness in the far corners at full shift but it's still very good. See images 1 & 2.

I also like the fact that the 90mm FL doesn't diminish the grandeur of the mountains as a WA view will often do. See image 3.

Of course if Canon would bring out an updated version of the 90 TSE it would be great but probably a lot more money....



© drobertfranz 2013





© drobertfranz 2013





© drobertfranz 2013




Jan 24, 2014 at 12:32 PM
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