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Archive 2014 · vacations

ranankay
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · vacations

How do other photographers protect yourself when carrying 10K of equipment in your hand while traveling all over the country and especially at early hours like before daylight? All the states are different and some like California very restrictive. Do you recommend just leaving your protection at home. We plan on being gone one to two months and traveling thru states from Ohio to Washington, California and back. Just want to know what others do...
Thanks randall

Jan 23, 2014 at 05:54 AM

jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · vacations

My protection travels with me. It's called, "insurance".

Jan 23, 2014 at 08:22 AM

cwebster
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · vacations

That's what insurance is for. Carrying a weapon to "protect" $10K worth of gear is foolish, what would you do if someone actually tried to rob you, shoot them? And become liable for an attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon charge?

Most states don't allow you to shoot someone to protect personal property, and many don't have "stand your ground" laws, especially California.

<Chas>

Jan 23, 2014 at 11:09 AM

shmn
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · vacations

Agreed. A valuable personal property addition to a home policy gives you great protection against theft, dropping, losing or damaging your camera equipment. No deductible and they will reimburse the cost of the product. Doesn't cost too much for this type of policy.

If you have a conceal carry permit...you may want to brush up on your responsibilities because it's very easy to lose your CCP or get yourself into serious trouble. There is a great handbook by Dave Workman entitled "Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities" (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2507079.Washington_State_gun_rights_and_responsibilities) which helps explain all the ins-and-outs of CCP. This is obviously for WA state but the general principles still apply. A guide like this should be issued to all new CCP applicants to help them understand all the responsibilities associated with this privilege...too many get a CCP for the wrong reasons.

Jan 23, 2014 at 11:42 AM

anthonysemone
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · vacations

cwebster,

you would do well to acquaint yourself with the laws regarding the use of deadly force because any attempt at robbery is an explicit attempt to harm the Victim's physical person: "Sir, give me your 10k worth of equipment!!!" Answer: "and if I don't?" Answer; "Oh, in that case I will go find someone who will comply with my request to rob them." Right. Uh Huh. Or, alternatively, "Here, kind Sir, is my 10k worth of equipment. I trust you will now go away and leave me alone." Right. And I've got a bridge for $1.98. It usually goes like this: "Hey ass****m give me that gear or you are a dead MF'er"

All that is needed to enter a claim of the defense of self-defense is that the Victim (the one being robbed) have the reasonable belief that he or she is in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or death, and that the Victim has done nothing to incite the attack on him or her (although I reckon in CA just owning 10k worth of gear would count as incitement under the redistribute the wealth philosophy of Moonbeam and his ilk), and that, in a non Stand Your Ground state, I have made an attempt to retreat form the encounter - PROVIDED I COULD DO IT IN COMPLETE SAFETY TO MYSELF; AND, I have the reasonable belief that the attacker has the Ability, Opportunity, and has, right then and there, manifested the intent to do grave bodily harm or death to me - Jeopardy. AOJ, also known as Administration of Justice. I do NOT need to wait to be shot, knifed, bricked, sucker-punched before employing that level of force necessary, reasonable and proportional to terminate the threat.

Read Massad Ayoob "In the Gravest Extreme."

Jan 23, 2014 at 11:45 AM

anthonysemone
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · vacations

@shmn: would that Voting Rights for their exercise be subject to the same level of scrutiny as my 2A rights. BTW, a CCW is NOT a privilege, except in those states where the only one's who can CCW are the Rich and the Famous or well-postioned. That may change with a forthcoming Supreme Court Case. Until then, there is always the Doctrine of Competing Harms.

Jan 23, 2014 at 11:49 AM

cwebster
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · vacations

You'll spend way more than $10K defending that action. Why not just give the dude your camera bag and file an insurance claim. Way cheaper, no injury or loss of life.

<Chas>

Jan 23, 2014 at 01:55 PM

anthonysemone
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · vacations

In other words, you are going to take the "word" of someone who is robbing you under the threat of force, very probably deadly force, that he will allow you to depart in safety.

Be my guest, Sir. I indeed have liability insurance on my gear. Doesn't matter in terms of my response. Cases too numerous to count where said Perp takes the gear, whatever it is - purse, car, wallet, watch - and then, so as to leave no witnesses (or at least fewer

) decides to take the Victim's life. Far as I'm concerned, his life isn't worth squat when it comes to how I value mine and those of my family and friends. YMMV.

(In this context, you may find it edifying to read an article published in The Public Interest in 1993 written by Jeffrey R. Snyder and entitled "A Nation of Cowards." I have it only in .pdf. A search on the web will direct you to it.)

Jan 23, 2014 at 02:17 PM

ranankay
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · vacations

Well I guess insurance is almost always a good thing to have,but
I also understand that if confronted, I can do one of two things. Resist with what ever force I can muster or try to reason my out of the situation. I wouldn't mind someone taking my camera, I can buy another one, but taking my wife is something else.
I guess the answer is to have [it] available where you can use [it] and keep it put away in a case where you can't have [it] available, like California and other states. I personally think it stinks that in the first place one has to have an equalizer in the first place when out in our parks and such, I have been confronted more than once and it's not fun. It's even worst when you can't legally defend yourself as you go about your own business, just trying to make a living. Thanks for the reply's folks Randall

Jan 23, 2014 at 04:41 PM

codyconway
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · vacations

heh I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this thread, its open for extreme bias and flak for either side of the argument. When I'm in my home state (texas) I use to carry all the time to defend myself from imminent death (stand your ground law is strong in Texas), would I ever actually shoot? Only if they went to draw a weapon first, but that's another story for a whole different kind of board of discussion.

As others have said, allow me, a fellow conceal carrier, offer this as advice: You may have the "right" to defend yourself, stand your ground, and protect your procession. But you have an ethical obligation to decide on whether filing an insurance claim and walking away (option b) is worth less than taking a life. Both have cost. . . Carry to defend yourself if your life is actually in immediate danger, but if a guy has a knife and asks for your bag, you can give it to him, file a claim, and move on. Taking out the gun and not shooting him is illegal (causing terror / flashing a weapon in public), shooting him and not killing him, is grounds for law suit (yep even in texas, in my class I was told shoot to kill, never to maim). So again, is his/her life worth less than your easily replaceable camera equipment. . .

When I travel, I am usually out of the country, can't carry anywhere outside the US. I always carry PPA insurance that has 15,000 in coverage, and it covers whatever gear I would have with me at the time of IF an incident should occur. This is as much peace of mind as I need to be honest. . . But you also will not find me roaming around the streets and alleyways of downtown Quito after dark . . . You still need to use common sense.

Jan 23, 2014 at 04:53 PM

BenV
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · vacations

Come to Florida, you can shoot anyone, with camera gear or guns

Jan 23, 2014 at 05:04 PM

MitchSC
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · vacations

BenV wrote:
Come to Florida, you can shoot anyone, with camera gear or guns

And they do

Jan 23, 2014 at 06:20 PM

Paul Mo
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · vacations

ranankay wrote:
How do other photographers protect yourself when carrying 10K of equipment in your hand while traveling all over the country and especially at early hours like before daylight?

A SOG Seal Pup.

Jan 23, 2014 at 06:28 PM


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