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Archive 2014 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........

  
 
Karl Witt
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


I have much to learn about strobe lighting with first hand experience so I am asking before I consider buying.

In 'reading' it seems a ringflash can provide a nice even diffused light with very soft shadows. In reading it seems this light can also have the tendency to add a more dimensional look or modeling to an object because of the light fall off.

So, if I had say a three dimensional reflective object such as glass or metal or a highly reflective body of a painted RC car would this type of flash be a good source to use? Would it also work well with something less dimensional but highly colorful like a pair of custom wool mittens?

Any negative thoughts about these ringflash lights? Or other input to share would be appreciated.

Thanks
Karl




Jan 09, 2014 at 03:20 PM
hondageek
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


A ring light doesn't produce diffused light or soft shadows. It's "on axis" with your lens so any shadows created by it can't be seen as they are behind the subject. It will ad a less dimensional look than "off axis" light because of the lack of shadows. Dimension, or depth, is created by shadows and highlights. Since the light is coming from the same direction as your lens, it will reflect straight back into your lens when used with a reflective surface. For an example of this, hold a small flashlight between your eyes and look at yourself in a mirror.


Jan 09, 2014 at 04:23 PM
Karl Witt
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


I hear what you are saying but.....From Buff website

Studio Flash Explained
Ringflashes

Ringflashes
Ring lights, and ringflashes in particular, are almost a separate category of studio lighting. The studio ringflash is an outgrowth of the small circular ringflashes that are widely used by dentists and forensic scientists to photograph small items without shadows.

The principle is simple: Instead of the light coming from one side of the camera where shadows are invariably present, a ringflash surrounds the lens. The light comes toward the subject from all angles and the only shadow formed is a faint and thin uniform one, or none at all.

Higher-powered ringflash units have come into vogue among fashion photographers and have since stood the test of time, though traditionally very expensive and limited to the most affluent shooters.

In addition to the obvious advantage of producing relatively shadow-free images, the ringflash can produce a certain character in lighting that is not evident with off-camera light sources.

In particular, the ringflash has a subtle tendency to add a three-dimensional look to many subjects. This is because when the light falls on a rounded body part, say and arm or leg, the light falling on the edges is, due to the oblique angle, less reflected to the lens than the light that strikes the frontal surfaces.

Since this light falls uniformly on all sides of such a feature, it appears to increase the overall appearance of depth. It is also accompanied by a nearly invisible uniform shadow that tends to separate features from one another. With off-camera lighting, the same feature would have a brighter side and dimmer side and appear more as a shadow gradient and the eye would identify it as such.

As I read more I think the power and size of the ringflash becomes very important to the result it will give based on subject size:

On the negative side, direct ringflash is a small-source light and can lead to results not unlike a straight on-camera flash if not used carefully. This can produce redeye and a general “snapshot” look. These obstacles, if present, can be remedied by using a ringflash (such as the AlienBees™ ABR800 Ringflash or the Zeus™ ZRM1 RingMaster) that employs strong modeling lamps to reduce redeye, and by using an accessory large-source diffuser such as the Moon Unit™.

The Moon Unit™ increases the effective source-size and renders a somewhat different shadow structure than direct ringflash. The shadows surround the subject more, and are thus softer and even less evident. The Moon Unit™ also allows the ringflash to be used at greater distances from the model to allow greater freedom of composition and less model discomfort because the light is softer and less blinding.



Jan 09, 2014 at 04:43 PM
hondageek
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


That's true, but PCB isn't talking about shooting glossy RC bodies and mittens!


Jan 09, 2014 at 05:04 PM
Karl Witt
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


hondageek wrote:
That's true, but PCB isn't talking about shooting glossy RC bodies and mittens!


You have a valid point here

Guess it wouldn't cause and issue with the non reflective mittens but if it is throwing catchlights in the eyes then I will likely see them on the glossy RC body

Hmmm the learning continues.......................thanks!

Karl



Jan 09, 2014 at 05:29 PM
Kirivon
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


Basically draw a shape out in photoshop then apply a 50px drop shadow effect to the layer and you'll get an idea of what a ringflash does. Used on-axis, a ringflash will obliterate shadows and create a "glow" around the model. Off-axis it's similar to any other bare light with a 10" reflector: hard, specular, and directional. Differences in that application are the donut-shaped catchlights and a wider spread than your typical bare-bulb flash.

I had one briefly and the punchy look on-axis was fun for a little while, but was too harsh for most applications. And, though it was useful as a fill light, I just didn't use it enough to justify owning it.



Jan 10, 2014 at 01:11 AM
docsmiles17
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


Karl Witt wrote:
I have much to learn about strobe lighting with first hand experience so I am asking before I consider buying.

In 'reading' it seems a ringflash can provide a nice even diffused light with very soft shadows. In reading it seems this light can also have the tendency to add a more dimensional look or modeling to an object because of the light fall off.

So, if I had say a three dimensional reflective object such as glass or metal or a highly reflective body of a painted RC car would this type of flash be a good source to
...Show more
I use ring flash a lot but am a bit confused on specifically what and how you plan to use it?



Jan 10, 2014 at 01:33 AM
Karl Witt
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


docsmiles17 wrote:
I use ring flash a lot but am a bit confused on specifically what and how you plan to use it?


To sum it up the intent was for product photography, table top type work of various items, some fabric some metal some glass some glossy some not. The part that intrigued me was the modeling feel of the light to add dimensionally to the object and have a soft vague shadow.
I have one AB800 strobe, this is all new to me, not sure what softbox to get or octabox or shoot through or.......... whatever to give the best light for same application. I had planned on adding a second AB400 or another 800 but the ringflash seemed a good possibility.

Hope that helps you be able to give me more info and thanks for asking
Karl



Jan 10, 2014 at 10:46 AM
HansB
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


Karl, this is a good book if you don't have it already.

http://www.amazon.com/Light-Science-Magic-Introduction-Photographic/dp/0240812255/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389370514&sr=8-1&keywords=light-science+and+magic

More info: http://www.tabletopstudio.com/HowTo_page.html

There are numerous good product photography/lighting videos on you tube.

All the best, Hans


Edited on Jan 10, 2014 at 11:30 AM · View previous versions



Jan 10, 2014 at 11:20 AM
acoll123
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


I just ordered a Westcott Ice Light. It might have a similar effect (wrap-around lighting for small objects) for your purposes. Just a thought.

Andy



Jan 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM
Karl Witt
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


HansB wrote:
Karl, this is a good book if you don't have it already.

http://www.amazon.com/Light-Science-Magic-Introduction-Photographic/dp/0240812255/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389370514&sr=8-1&keywords=light-science+and+magic

More info: http://www.tabletopstudio.com/HowTo_page.html

There are numerous good product photography/lighting videos on you tube.

All the best, Hans


Awesome link to Tabletop Hans, thanks much!
Karl



Jan 10, 2014 at 12:25 PM
docsmiles17
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


Karl Witt wrote:
To sum it up the intent was for product photography, table top type work of various items, some fabric some metal some glass some glossy some not. The part that intrigued me was the modeling feel of the light to add dimensionally to the object and have a soft vague shadow.
I have one AB800 strobe, this is all new to me, not sure what softbox to get or octabox or shoot through or.......... whatever to give the best light for same application. I had planned on adding a second AB400 or another 800 but the ringflash seemed a good
...Show more

As you likely know, ring lights are popular for macro photography which is what I mostly use it for. But for what you intend to use it for, the ring light will create a white reflection on a glossy surface (glass, metal). The reflection is from the light itself and the shape can vary from a circle to a broad vague line, dependent upon the angle.

If you shoot against a table or backdrop close to the subject (i.e. shooting a product from above sitting on the table), the ring light will produce a faint halo around the subject. If, however you place the subject on a table and shoot the subject across the table vs down onto the table, the halo will not appear. Below is an example of what I referring to.

Don't know if the reflection and/or halo will be a factor for you.







Jan 11, 2014 at 01:32 AM
Deezie
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


The halo effect is what many photographers like about the ring light. For me, it's the same as having an on-camera flash. I don't really care for this type of lightning due the flat quality it provides, but sometimes it looks very cool.Though it's used frequently in fashion and editorial, it's still a niche player amongst most photographers in that field.


Jan 12, 2014 at 10:47 AM
basehorhonda
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


Honestly, I use the PCB ringflash more as a small beauty dish than anything else.


Jan 16, 2014 at 10:04 AM
docsmiles17
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


basehorhonda wrote:
Honestly, I use the PCB ringflash more as a small beauty dish than anything else.


Yes…have never done so myself but had the same thought. One day I will try it.



Jan 16, 2014 at 12:06 PM
unclemikey
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Ringflash experiences Paul Buff or........


Karl Witt wrote:
I have much to learn about strobe lighting with first hand experience so I am asking before I consider buying.

In 'reading' it seems a ringflash can provide a nice even diffused light with very soft shadows. In reading it seems this light can also have the tendency to add a more dimensional look or modeling to an object because of the light fall off.

So, if I had say a three dimensional reflective object such as glass or metal or a highly reflective body of a painted RC car would this type of flash be a good source to
...Show more

I do a lot of macro photography professionally. I also do some product photography for the medical companies that hire me. An old saying goes, "when shooting highly reflective surfaces like glass or shiny metal, light what it sees not the object itself". Is that understandable for you. For the mittens, you're fine.



Jan 16, 2014 at 01:12 PM





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