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Archive 2014 · 7D or 70-300mm L?

  
 
BT3i
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


I shoot mainly youth soccer with my T3i and Tamron 70-300 sp vc. I would like to upgrade
my lens and camera but cannot afford to do both, which would you buy first considering
my situation?

Thanks !

















Jan 01, 2014 at 01:53 PM
CW100
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


BT3i wrote:
I shoot mainly youth soccer with my T3i and Tamron 70-300 sp vc. I would like to upgrade
my lens and camera but cannot afford to do both, which would you buy first considering
my situation?

Thanks !


What do you hope to accomplish by upgrading?
If you want sharper pics first try increasing the shutter speed above 1/1000 ! The 7D is better than the rebels for sports but you should get plenty of good pics with the T3i assuming a good shutter speed, I know I did with the much older XSi. The 70-300L is a better lens (faster AF and better IQ) but it has the same focal length so you might not see a huge increase in quality assuming the same shutter and aperture. Larger (lower) apertures gets you a more blurred background effect and with a telephoto lens, say, 300mm f4 prime even more.

if you follow the "glass before body" rule a 70-200 2.8 lens is more versatile (indoors) but the 70-300 L or 100-400 or maybe a prime would be better for outdoor daytime sports. Upgrading to a 70D or 7D or even the older 60D would be good (AF, fps, buffer) but it wouldn't help that much in the non-sports area.

soccer with 60D and 100-400
f5.6
1/5000


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7363/10497818093_4e71868ce1_c.jpg



Jan 02, 2014 at 08:43 AM
BT3i
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


Thanks for the tips- I rarely shoot over 1000/sec shutter - no particular reason except I felt I was getting decent quality photos. Sounds like I need to really push the shutter higher to get better in focus shots especially at the longer focal lengths of 300mm. I will try that first and then see how that comes out.

Again thanks for your input!



Jan 02, 2014 at 11:30 AM
Trevorma
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


I guess I have more questions then answers for you at this point. In image number One:

1) Why f 7.1?

2) Why 1/500th on the shutter?

3) Why ISO 200?

I would start (as noted above) by shooting above 1/1000th, especially in daylight conditions. Lower the Aperture to the widest it can go (I assume 5.6?) and let the camera pick your ISO.

It will always be a fine line with shutter speed and ISO, but find the highest ISO you feel comfy with, tell the camera not to go above it and crank the shutter up until you freeze the action.

I feel like some of the IQ in the images you posted is from cropping as well?

Work with what you have for now, figure out what settings work best and then if you decide you still need to upgrade, decide what it is that needs the help. For example if you need higher ISO, new body, if the ISO and shutter are fine, maybe new glass would help.

Trevor



Jan 02, 2014 at 12:41 PM
jeraldcook
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


Excellent advise thus far. The only issue I might possible disagree with is shooting your current Tamron 70-300 wide open. Consumer tele-zooms in the 70-300 range often suffer from poor image quality close to 300mm, especially when shot wide open. Stopping down to f/7.1 or f/8 might yield sharper photos assuming you can keep your shutter speed up.

While I'd work on your technique first, I'd also be very tempted to buy the L lens.



Jan 02, 2014 at 01:28 PM
BT3i
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


Yes a lot of my images are cropped not all by a good percentage. Not sure why I chose the settings of 7.1, 500 shutter and 200 ISO. Maybe I thought there was plenty of sunlight so ISO 200 is more than enough for the conditions. At some point early on I shot with shutter closer to 1000 or higher but felt facial grimaces were strange looking. That was early on need to try higher shutter again, wide open Aperture (f4) and maybe set max ISO to 800.
Can't wait to try but will be waiting three months till soccer starts up again-bummer!

Thanks for the detailed responses!



Jan 02, 2014 at 07:21 PM
CW100
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


BT3i wrote:
Yes a lot of my images are cropped not all by a good percentage. Not sure why I chose the settings of 7.1, 500 shutter and 200 ISO. Maybe I thought there was plenty of sunlight so ISO 200 is more than enough for the conditions. At some point early on I shot with shutter closer to 1000 or higher but felt facial grimaces were strange looking. That was early on need to try higher shutter again, wide open Aperture (f4) and maybe set max ISO to 800.
Can't wait to try but will be waiting three months till soccer
...Show more

first higher shutter speeds, maybe get closer, get the sun behind you, etc.
then try the L lens





Jan 04, 2014 at 05:56 PM
BT3i
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


Yes the sun behind me thing I saw on you tube the other day, that will help me too!
As far as getting closer maybe I should be more selective in shooting,
for a 60 min game I average 350 or so shots. Decreasing that by half with better closer selection of shots should
increase the quality
of my results!
Thanks




Jan 04, 2014 at 07:03 PM
amlsml
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


When you do decide to buy gear, I have had great success buying gear on this forum. You will save over new, and in my experience, i have found honest and forthright sellers on this forum. As to settings, look at all the soccer posts, and read the exif info, tons to learn, Read and try the advice given. If you re read Trevor's advice, I am sure your next outing will be much better. Have fun!


Jan 05, 2014 at 10:33 AM
BT3i
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


Thanks I do see a ton of tempting lenses and cameras on here, it's nice to see ratings of the sellers too!
Thanks



Jan 05, 2014 at 12:31 PM
schlotz
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


Looking at the 3 shots and your input so far I would say you're jumping the gun. That is, putting equipment in place before technique. Knowing your equipment and how to use it effectively to capture sports action is the first priority. Good solid setup, proper positioning and tracking will allow one to understand if equipment is truly the limiting factor. There has been good advice provided here for shooting soccer and if you want good results they should be followed every time you shoot.

1. Keep the shutter above 1/000, increase the ISO if necessary to keep you there.
2. Lower Aperture settings provide better separation between subject and background. Most who do this utilize L-lenses providing f/2.8 capability. BTW: F/4.0 works well in many circumstances.
3. Keep the sun at your back
4. Position yourself so the action is coming towards you. You want ball, faces and action to fill the frame.
5. Stay low, on your knees or butt, especially when shooting munchkin ball
6. Become good at activating the AF point (highly suggest use only center one) to track the subject PRIOR to taking the shot.

Even at 5.6, you should be able to achieve sharp well exposed shots such as the one CW100 provided above.

After years of observing, I can say there seems to be pattern many follow. It's most likely driven by affordability, and that is the infamous 70-300 purchase. Ok, yes you can get some good shots with it on sunny days with good technique etc... BUT, invariably many become disenchanted that they are not getting what they expected. Not every game is under bright sun, the kids are faster than you think and the generic 70-300 lenses (including Canon's) are not the fastest when it comes to AF. The "L" version is better by far than the others but still has its limitations when it comes to soccer. I'm a believer of fast glass before body upgrades but it's important to recognize that photography, in itself, is an exercise in compromise. EX) fast glass by itself won't necessarily guarantee one to get the peak action shot which can be missed with slower fps bodies. The compromise here is you become good at anticipating the action in order to get the shot.

So if I were able to catch someone on the front side of getting into capturing their kids efforts on the field, my advise would be to get what will do the job and actually save yourself some money in the long run by not having to re-purchase equipment. A used 70-200 non-IS 2.8 lens and a body that can at least do 5-fps. This rig will serve quite well up until they get on the big field at which point the next set of decisions come into play. In the interim, pick up a 1.4tc to provide you some additional reach. The "next set" starts with the understanding that it's gonna cost ya! Issues to resolve are more reach via 300 or 400 primes, 2nd body to cover close in action the 300/400 can't, faster fps bodies that also have high ISO capability.

To answer the OP's question: buy a used 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS and put a 1.4 tc on it if necessary. With the tc, you get a 98-280 f/4. This allows one to effectively cover many game conditions including those that are light challenged. The lens is still considered one of Canon's best and is very fast in the AF department. Then go shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. Refine your technique, improve your skills and get ready for the "next set" of decisions.

Good luck with your shooting.

Matt



Jan 07, 2014 at 09:38 AM
BT3i
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


Wow thanks for the continued great info. Again can't wait to get out there for spring soccer in a couple months!

I agree with your points and I am jumping the gun !

I tried briefly to track with one focus point although I found it difficult to follow the player I wanted to shoot and also felt keeping the camera fairly still became more dificult.I guess as the kids get older/bigger it may become easier to follow? (they'll be faster too though...)

I wonder if others you shoot sports typically use one focal point or a range or all? Looking at the 7D I do like that you can shoot several types of focus point arrangements instead of just using one. Again not sure if folks stick to the one point mostly or use these other arrangement options?

Thanks



Jan 07, 2014 at 12:10 PM
schlotz
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


May be "old school" here but I recommend using the center focus point which on many bodies is the most responsive. The newer ones have other points that are just as responsive plus they might have settings to "assist" ie points around the one selected and sometimes they help you get what you want. HOWEVER, if the body locks on to say the point just left of center you might end up with the wrong subject being focused upon. Soccer is one of the most demanding sports you'll shoot. There is really no substitute for learning how to get & keep the focus point on the subject you intend to shoot regardless of which single point is used. Like anything else, it takes practice. No free lunch here.

Matt



Jan 07, 2014 at 12:49 PM
Trevorma
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


BT3i wrote:
I tried briefly to track with one focus point although I found it difficult to follow the player I wanted to shoot and also felt keeping the camera fairly still became more dificult.I guess as the kids get older/bigger it may become easier to follow? (they'll be faster too though...)

I wonder if others you shoot sports typically use one focal point or a range or all? Looking at the 7D I do like that you can shoot several types of focus point arrangements instead of just using one. Again not sure if folks stick to the one point mostly
...Show more

I think this highlights the fact that you might be jumping the gun a bit...... it's about baby steps...

First learn to track the sport, and as they get older it gets harder. The players are faster, the balls move faster, the plays get more complicated.... it gets worse so it's better to learn now

I shoot centre point all day every day.....it's the way I learned and I find it easier to keep the one "dot" on the player I want it on.....

When spring comes, get out and shoot with what you got, post some images and get some feedback. Some of it might be tough to hear but at the end of the day it will help you improve. A new lens or Camera aren't going to fix the basics skills you need to get a great image. Once you start getting great images with what you have, then ask what you need to get amazing images.



Jan 07, 2014 at 02:35 PM
Ed Peters
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


In my humble opinion, the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 is the best value sports lens available.. And I would start with that, prior to upgrading your camera..


Jan 08, 2014 at 02:07 PM
ELWOOD B
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


I'll throw out one more gear idea here, but only if you decide that you need new gear. Learning the technique, like others have said, is most important.
The Canon 300mm f4 is a great daytime lens, extremely sharp and quick focusing. If your child will be playing daytime ball for quite a while, it may be a fine choice. For soccer I would prefer 300mm to a 70-200, although it's not as versatile for all purpose use. Buying used on the forum will save quite a bit.



Jan 08, 2014 at 08:00 PM
luketrot
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 7D or 70-300mm L?


About 5 years ago I bought a 1D Mark III new for $4999. I also bought a new 70-200MM F2.8 for $1200. Today the 70-200mm is worth more then the 1D Mark III. The 70-200mm gets uses regularly, the 1D Mark III sits on a shelf.

For daytime soccer i would take a 300/4L and the original Rebel over a 1DX and your Tamron zoom lens. 5 years from now, the 300/4L will probably be worth more then you paid for it, the 1DX will be sitting on the shelf next to your old CRT monitor and Pentium 4 computer. Not only is the lens a smart buy but it will also give you the results your looking for.

300mm F4 + 1.4x 420mm F5.6
http://www.midcoastphoto.com/components/com_creation3d/galeries/BBBASEBALL/15.JPG



Jan 15, 2014 at 08:27 AM





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