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Nikon D400 or D4 successor?
  
 
Waki
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


I have read where pros have the camera in hand months prior to announcement. Guys like McNally had the D800 and D4 way before Nikon said anything.


Dec 27, 2013 at 11:47 PM
Waki
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


To add to my post about Nikon sensors...this is from a 2003 dpreview article:

Nikon has a high share of the global digital SLR market, but ranked fifth in the overall digital camera market in 2002. Until now, it has relied on other companies, such as Sony Corp. (6758), to supply image sensors. But as digital cameras become the global norm for both general consumers and professionals, the firm determined that developing in-house technology was important for such higher-end products such as SLRs. The company will continue to use sensors produced by other manufacturers for its consumer-grade compact digital cameras.





Dec 27, 2013 at 11:52 PM
mawz
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Waki wrote:
Well according to Hogan and the Nikon web site, they are "Nikon " sensors. The D700 also featured a non Sony sensor.

Edit:
I pasted this off an older post from Nikon Rumors:

"Chipworks has a new report online for the Nikon D4 and the 16.2MP FX CMOS sensor inside (NC81366W) is made by Nikon. Similar to the D3, D3s, D700 and D3100, the sensor inside the D3200 was also made by Nikon. The D7000 did use a Sony sensor.

Few months ago there were some rumors that Aptina is developing a new full frame CMOS sensor for Nikon."

Read more on NikonRumors.com: http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/22/the-sensor-inside-the-d4-is-made-by-nikon.aspx/#ixzz2oioncyU0


Umm, yes, That is correct. It's also in line with what I said. The 12MP FX sensor (used in the D3, D3s and D700) and the 16MP FX sensor (used in the D4 and Df) are Nikon-designed but fabricated by a 3rd party.

The D2X(s) had a Nikon/Sony co-designed sensor sort-of shared by the Sony DMC-R1 (the Sony used a cut-down version of the same sensor, much like the relationship between Sony's 24MP APS-C sensor and their 16MP 4/3rds sensor) , the D3X uses a Nikon-specific variant of the same basic 24MP sensor also used by the A850, A900, A99, A7, D600 and D610, with known variants in sensor toppings and output stages (the Sony versions and the D6x0's use the Sony on-chip ADC, the Nikon D3X apparently uses custom toppings, CFA and a Nikon-specified channelized readout).

As I said, Nikon used Sony sensors in the D2X and D3X, but their own 12MP FX and 16MP FX sensors in the cameras with those sensors.

Additionally:

The D3200 has a Toshiba sensor. It was originally believed to be a Nikon sensor by some as it is widely believed that Toshiba does Nikon's current sensor production. That sensor is shared by the D5200, D5300 and D7100, with varying topings

The D3100 has a unique Nikon-designed 14MP sensor, it may be in some way related to the Toshiba 24MP part.

It's sometimes difficult to tell what's Nikon-designed and what's just customized to Nikon's specifications as Nikon has on multiple occasions used custom variants of stock sensors such as the 12MP parts used in the D300 and D300s (while the D90 for example used the stock Sony part of the same basic sensor).



Edited on Dec 28, 2013 at 01:03 AM · View previous versions



Dec 28, 2013 at 12:57 AM
mawz
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Waki wrote:
To add to my post about Nikon sensors...this is from a 2003 dpreview article:

Nikon has a high share of the global digital SLR market, but ranked fifth in the overall digital camera market in 2002. Until now, it has relied on other companies, such as Sony Corp. (6758), to supply image sensors. But as digital cameras become the global norm for both general consumers and professionals, the firm determined that developing in-house technology was important for such higher-end products such as SLRs. The company will continue to use sensors produced by other manufacturers for its consumer-grade compact digital cameras.



And that was a reference to the unique Nikon-designed LBCAST sensor used in the D2h and D2hs, it was a massive failure for Nikon and a complete technological dead end, no camera after the D2hs would use a derivative of that sensor and it was a major factor in Nikon's choice to co-develop a 12MP CMOS sensor with Sony for the D2X (which is the origin of the modern Sony CMOS sensor family, as well as Nikon's 12 & 16MP FX sensors and 14MP DX sensor).



Dec 28, 2013 at 01:00 AM
LeifG
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Out of interest, did Sony and Nikon co-develop sensors to share costs - cost being very high - or to share expertise ie neither could do it alone?


Dec 28, 2013 at 05:00 PM
hlavo
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Yep, stand corrected.


Dec 28, 2013 at 06:31 PM
BenV
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


It always amazes me how rumor threads take off like a rocket ship


Dec 28, 2013 at 06:52 PM
mawz
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


LeifG wrote:
Out of interest, did Sony and Nikon co-develop sensors to share costs - cost being very high - or to share expertise ie neither could do it alone?


Sony certainly could go it alone and Nikon probably could have, but Nikon's experience with LBCAST and Sony's CCD design experience was complementary when they were working on the early CMOS sensors, and both companies had already been looking at CMOS.

Nikon was also by far Sony's largest customer for large sensors, as the other two (Pentax and Minolta) were small change (this was around the time Sony started shopping for a DSLR mount to acquire, which eventually resulted in the Minolta purchase).



Dec 28, 2013 at 11:03 PM
LeifG
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


From what I have read, Japanese business culture is very different from that in the West. This collaboration on sensors is one example.


Dec 29, 2013 at 12:00 AM
rickde
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


sb in ak wrote:
Yeah, doesn't seem like much time. So my money is on a D4x high res body.


I'm really hoping that the D4x is announced soon so the price of a used D3x drops like a rock and I can finally afford one! The D3x would be a nice pro FX companion to my D2x. Why would I like to have both a D2x and a D3x body? Same batteries and chargers and also same CF memory cards. Also very similar control layout. Both are rugged, fully pro camera bodies, one dedicated for DX one for FX.

Compatible accessories is a philosophy that Nikon no longer seems to understand in its pro line. To quote Thom Hogan: "But if the D4 is to be a camera in a pro’s bag, they need a resolution equivalent, the D4x. The D4/D800 answer is two different battery sets, two different card sets (three different card types!), two different sets of controls; in other words, not the ideal solution." Are you listening Nikon? -> When you use dual memory cards in a pro or semi-pro camera please make them both the same type!!!



Dec 29, 2013 at 01:31 PM
 

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Andre Labonte
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


rickde wrote:
I'm really hoping that the D4x is announced soon so the price of a used D3x drops like a rock and I can finally afford one! The D3x would be a nice pro FX companion to my D2x. Why would I like to have both a D2x and a D3x body? Same batteries and chargers and also same CF memory cards. Also very similar control layout. Both are rugged, fully pro camera bodies, one dedicated for DX one for FX.

Compatible accessories is a philosophy that Nikon no longer seems to understand in its pro line. To quote Thom
...Show more
***********************

In that regard, Nikon had it nailed when the 3rd gen pro bodies (i.e. D3, D3x, D700, D300) came out ... all that was missing then was the D700x ... but with the current 4th gen pro bodies, they are all over the map.



Dec 29, 2013 at 02:00 PM
Vinnie_VdB
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


http://petapixel.com/2013/12/26/rumor-nikon-possibly-launching-d400-d4x-january-17th/

More rumors.



Dec 29, 2013 at 08:07 PM
Andre Labonte
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Maybe we'll get lucky and Nikon will announce both a 24MP D4s with 10FPS and a 24MP D400 with 8 FPS ... now that would put Nikon back on the right track ... follow it up in 6 months with a D4X @ 54MP and we will sing Nikon's praises


Dec 30, 2013 at 11:03 PM
rickde
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Andre Labonte wrote:
Maybe we'll get lucky and Nikon will announce both a 24MP D4s with 10FPS and a 24MP D400 with 8 FPS ... now that would put Nikon back on the right track ... follow it up in 6 months with a D4X @ 54MP and we will sing Nikon's praises


That would be an excellent way for Nikon to begin the New Year!



Dec 31, 2013 at 02:05 AM
brian_sp
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Andre Labonte wrote:
Maybe we'll get lucky and Nikon will announce both a 24MP D4s with 10FPS and a 24MP D400 with 8 FPS ... now that would put Nikon back on the right track ... follow it up in 6 months with a D4X @ 54MP and we will sing Nikon's praises



still have to deal with Nikon costumer service though, Nikon has a longer rough road ahead of them than just new bodies



Dec 31, 2013 at 02:26 AM
WestcoastHD
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Somehow I don't think a D400 will be announced in Jan 2014. Nikon seems to like extremes these days, so a 54 MP D4x or a D800s / D900 are way more likely than a top of the line DX body. Nikon would make 10 cool pix cameras or a D615 before they would release a D400.


Dec 31, 2013 at 05:00 AM
Andre Labonte
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


brian_sp wrote:
still have to deal with Nikon costumer service though, Nikon has a longer rough road ahead of them than just new bodies



True enough, but I'll take logic in the line-up for now ... better service and some long over-due lenses (refresh of 300 f/4, 200 micro, and some DX WA primes) would be nice though





Dec 31, 2013 at 06:52 AM
Vinnie_VdB
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


@Brian_sp: Nikon is more than the US. The service offered by Nikon in Europe is very good (active on a few forums and a passive reader on a few other EU forums) and can say that Nikon US indeed is sloppy to say the least but other countries seem to keep service level high.




Dec 31, 2013 at 07:29 AM
brian_sp
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


Vinnie_VdB wrote:
@Brian_sp: Nikon is more than the US. The service offered by Nikon in Europe is very good (active on a few forums and a passive reader on a few other EU forums) and can say that Nikon US indeed is sloppy to say the least but other countries seem to keep service level high.



unfortunately its not just the US

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1229393/1

maybe a north american thing but Nikon Japan still rules the nest, afterall, their reputation stands behind their services centers, i can't believe this happens and Nikon headquarters is unaware of it



Dec 31, 2013 at 08:21 AM
jbonzo1
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Nikon D400 or D4 successor?


LeifG wrote:
Is it really worth releasing a new camera so close to the Olympics? Are pros going to buy 2 weeks before and risk using new kit?


As a twenty five year newspaper pro, I never paid for a digital body... The newspaper bought them. Same thing at the magazines and press agencies.
NPS loans cameras to top level shooters at the Olympics. If there is a D4s/x, it would be tested by pros for the past few months.
The Olympics is a gathering of the best sports shooters in the World and a great showcase for the latest pro body.



Dec 31, 2013 at 04:42 PM
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