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Black Seamless Problem
  
 
blutch
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Black Seamless Problem


So, I bought my first roll of black seamless. Labeled as "jet black." No matter how far away from it I pull the subject, I get glare on the background. The paper is shiny. I want a low key image at times with no backlighting at all... did I buy the wrong paper?

B



Dec 24, 2013 at 05:24 AM
cwebster
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Black Seamless Problem


Perhaps you should use velvet, velour, or duvateen instead. But you should also look at how you are keeping the subject light off the background. Do you have flags, barn doors, etc? Is your room very light allowing uncontrolled light to splash around the room, and onto the b/g?

All are issues with keeping the background black.

<Chas>



Dec 24, 2013 at 05:29 AM
blutch
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Black Seamless Problem


My studio is so dark I had to have an extra modeling light on, but the glar was definitely falloff from the key light which was a 7' umbrella of bounced light. It is a huge soft light source.. no way to flag it I don't think.....


Dec 24, 2013 at 05:37 AM
JakeB17
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Black Seamless Problem


Yeah, with that sort of surface, and your intended result, you can't let any light hit the background.

You can certainly flag it with large flags and rags. 4x4 floppys are great for that, http://www.filmandvideolighting.com/american-grip-4x4-floppy-quantity-discount-deal-fc26-cutter.html?gclid=CPHGtOCUyLsCFWMV7Aod4mkApw

However, something with a matte surface would be much easier to work with. Duvetyne is a good option, as cwebster mentioned: http://www.filmtools.com/du60exb.html?gclid=CNaasqGUyLsCFaxr7Aod12IAag



Dec 24, 2013 at 05:50 AM
blutch
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Black Seamless Problem


I can't visualize how to knock down the shiny light on the background right behind the subject by using a large flag like the one pictured above.. can you splain it to me?

Thanks@

b



Dec 24, 2013 at 06:11 AM
JakeB17
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Black Seamless Problem


It sort of depends on the angle of your key light. If you're lighting from 45 degrees to the side then it's just a matter of placing the flag in line with the light striking the background (and not the subject).

However, if you're lighting with the 7ft umbrella nearly on axis you really can't do much that won't also change the lighting on your subject. In that case definitely get a different background material.



Dec 24, 2013 at 06:33 AM
blob loblaw
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Black Seamless Problem


how about increase distance b, iturn up the shutter so no ambient and turn down the light power, may have to decrease distance a ; maybe?

light <---a---> subject <--- b ---> background



Dec 24, 2013 at 05:51 PM
cwebster
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Black Seamless Problem


blutch wrote:
My studio is so dark I had to have an extra modeling light on, but the glar was definitely falloff from the key light which was a 7' umbrella of bounced light. It is a huge soft light source.. no way to flag it I don't think.....



Then you need to rethink your background material, because the paper will always be too shiny.

<Chas>



Dec 24, 2013 at 07:58 PM
hondageek
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Black Seamless Problem


Having your lights closer to the subject will increase the fall off to your b/g as well.



Dec 24, 2013 at 08:17 PM
blutch
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Black Seamless Problem


Thanks for all the suggestions.. I guess I could hang up a big piece of muslin.. I invested in a 3-roll background paper system so that I can easily go from one to the others. Kind of regretting that now... I will try the flagging and other suggestions. I prefer high-key portraits anyway, but wanted to have low key as an option. Would I have the same issue with a grey background? I like that look too, but I don't want it to be shiny like the black is...

Thanks all!

B



Dec 26, 2013 at 06:30 AM
 

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Steve Wylie
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Black Seamless Problem


Getting your key light closer to the subject, as the others have said, will definitely help. It's the inverse square law at work.


Dec 26, 2013 at 07:22 AM
cwebster
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Black Seamless Problem


The background is shiny because the light hitting it reflecting back into the lens. Change the angle of the camera or the lights to get the camera out of the "family of angles" of specular reflection and your shine will go away.

You can't directly front light hardly anything with getting some direct specular reflections, so you must control your family of angles accordingly.

Buy and read "Light - Science and Magic" by Hunter, Fuqua, and Fils to learn how to control light and reflection.

<Chas>



Dec 26, 2013 at 07:38 PM
blutch
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Black Seamless Problem


I do have that book and am trying to plow through it. Thanks.


Dec 26, 2013 at 07:59 PM
cbbr
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Black Seamless Problem


Take a look here - Its been out there for quite a while, but I still take a 'refresher' look every so often.


Dec 26, 2013 at 08:15 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Black Seamless Problem


Chad Berry wrote:
Take a look here - Its been out there for quite a while, but I still take a 'refresher' look every so often.


This.

Once you understand how your lights and modifiers are behaving - cause and effect, etc, and your camera settings, achieving jet black isn't difficult. In fact imho, it's better to master the lights rather than depend upon light absorbing background material unless you're working in an impossibly small space.



Dec 30, 2013 at 02:44 AM
Jeremy Reitman
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Black Seamless Problem


how about a picture of your setup (or a sample photo)? But it sounds like you just need to either move the camera or move the lights.


Dec 30, 2013 at 11:01 PM
blutch
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Black Seamless Problem


Here's a sample:

http://www.performingartsphotos.com/p584247018




Dec 31, 2013 at 12:55 AM
blutch
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Black Seamless Problem


The subjects are about 6 ft from the background. There is a 7' PLM bounced just camera right. This is the only light.

Shot with a 70-200. 1/200th f3.2 102mm fl.

B



Dec 31, 2013 at 12:57 AM
Jeremy Reitman
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Black Seamless Problem


looks like spill to me. Get the subject further from the backdrop, or do something like others have suggested and get some black velvet or something which will absorb all the light. black paper still has some shine to it. Suggest moving the lights more above the subject pointing more down and not towards the backdrop. A big enough source (softbox, etc) will still light softly with nice shadows. Also might try a grid on your softbox to "direct" the light towards the subject.

Change your f-stop to f5.6 or f8 and see if that cuts some of it down.



Dec 31, 2013 at 05:13 PM
blutch
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Black Seamless Problem


Thanks!

B



Dec 31, 2013 at 07:07 PM
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