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Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?
  
 
skibum5
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


gdanmitchell wrote:
I used to have a friend whose job was doing location recording of jazz performers and symphony orchestras. He was one of the first folks I knew who did digital location recording, using a system that captured converted analog audio to digital and then recorded the audio data on video cassettes - cutting edge stuff in those days.

He knew his audio inside out, and he knew sound really well.

I always think of him telling a story about an audiophile product that he swore up and down was real back in those days (more than a few years ago), called "Wonder
...Show more


true audio is filled with more snake oil than pretty much any other tech field

that said, the anti-snake oil, nothing beyond a $20 CD player or AMP makes any difference and crowd which has become equally loud these days, is becoming almost as silly these days IMO (well maybe not almost, nobody can really come close to $3000 per foot DIGITAL audio interconnects that use quantum tunneled prime electrons in ultra spin states to tighten the bass and reveal more treble clarity gotta love how a cable can do that to digital bits regardles of what format they are sent in that is some magical signal processing that cable can do ).


Edited on Jan 21, 2014 at 05:12 AM · View previous versions



Jan 21, 2014 at 03:10 AM
kezeka
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


skibum5 wrote:
true audio is filled with more snake oil than pretty much any other tech field

that said, the anti-snake oil, nothing beyond a $20 CD player or AMP makes any difference and crowd which has become equally loud these days, is becoming almost as silly these days IMO (well maybe not almost, nobody can really come close to $3000 per foot DIGITAL audio interconnects that use quantum tunneled prime electrons in ultra spin states to tighten the bass and reveal more treble clarity gotta love how a cable can do that to digital bits regardles of what format they are
...Show more

Reminds me of the monster HDMI cables that sell for $40 for 3 ft because they have all of this super duper shielding. Meanwhile, everyone buys the $5 amazon cables and comes out with the same audio and graphical output since HDMI has digital error correction built into the system.



Jan 21, 2014 at 03:28 AM
kzoockof
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


"no matter how good your audiophile system is, it can never equal the sound of an actual symphony orchestra."

How true it is.

Time to expand that living room and invite the orchestra over



Jan 21, 2014 at 03:54 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


kzoockof wrote:
"no matter how good your audiophile system is, it can never equal the sound of an actual symphony orchestra."

How true it is.

Time to expand that living room and invite the orchestra over


Actually, we've done that a few times, though it has been a while. :-)

Dan



Jan 21, 2014 at 04:18 PM
kzoockof
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Dan,

Hmm, I don't recall getting your invitations in the mail? I wonder how that happened



Jan 21, 2014 at 08:24 PM
kzoockof
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Certainly a lot of snake oil, but not all snake oil.

There is the crowd that feels bits is bits, watts is watts, etc. . . Where in reality, this is not so black and white. Most people talking "bits is bits" do not even know what digital jitter is, don't understand sampling rates, don't even know that their iTunes songs have all been truncated (basically portions removed from the original recording) to make smaller files (and then if they do know this, they believe the parts that have been removed are inaudible anyway).

Audio is much like photography, both are "arts" tying to replicate reality. Both have progressed from an analog approach to a digital approach. Both suffer similar types of snake oil, confusion and to some degree, ignorance. We have learned a lot more about the digital world than we used to know and the idea that we fully understand it now, in my opinion, is a bit misleading. Both have their high end, bleeding edge fanatics who fund the trickle down of new technology to mid level gear (or even pure consumer products). Both have seen manufacturers go in certain directions - thinking they knew the holy grail, only to reverse course at a later date.

We need to face reality, photography, just like the audiophile hobby, has its hard core followers and proponents discussing the minute differences in various lens sharpness, color, CA, etc. . . When in reality, we present two photographs, each positioned in a different room of the same image, one shot with the best of the best lens and body and the other with a consumer brand body and $200 lens. 98% of the population couldn't tell the two images apart. Yet those of us who could (the extreme minority), the photophile if you will, will claim that we can 100% of the time.

There is no wrong in being either an audiophile or a photography enthusiast, if this is what makes us happy. And in both cases, we probably find it difficult to justify the costs and efforts of our hobby (not addressing this as a career here) to those that think their new iPhone takes equally as good photographs. Some would say even better photographs (my son is always saying this when he and I both take the same shot and his iPhone shot seems perfectly exposed and mine not so much).

But cheers to us all for pursuing what we love, enjoy and want to share with others or just by ourselves. We have our friends and community here at FM - what a great group of enablers we are!



Jan 21, 2014 at 08:58 PM
Breitling65
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


I checked your profile, do you think your lenses are bad? Why would you care about Dxo if you could make great shots with Canon lenses?

Reason? Canon just at some point stopped paying Dxo bill's and Nikon don't



Jan 21, 2014 at 09:30 PM
lukeb
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Paul Mo wrote:
Ignore DxO - take photos instead.


+1000000000000



Jan 21, 2014 at 09:35 PM
lukeb
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Breitling65 wrote:
Reason? Canon just at some point stopped paying Dxo bill's and Nikon don't


And I suppose you have some proof of your statement?



Jan 21, 2014 at 09:37 PM
Monito
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Breitling65 wrote:
I checked your profile, do you think your lenses are bad? Why would you care about Dxo if you could make great shots with Canon lenses? Reason? Canon just at some point stopped paying Dxo bill's and Nikon don't


Any credible reference or link for your accusation of criminal behavior? Given the poster, I'm not holding my breath waiting.




Jan 21, 2014 at 11:30 PM
 

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krementz
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Monito wrote:
Any credible reference or link for your accusation of criminal behavior? Given the poster, I'm not holding my breath waiting.




Whether true or not, it is not criminal behavior.



Jan 21, 2014 at 11:58 PM
Paul Mo
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Perhaps what is criminal here is a lack of a sense of humour or irreverence?


Jan 22, 2014 at 12:14 AM
Monito
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


krementz wrote:
Whether true or not, it is not criminal behavior.


Breitling65 is alleging fraud and bribery. Those would be crimes.

Nikon, Canon and Dxo have grounds to sue Breitling65 for libel, even though I'm sure they will not.



Jan 22, 2014 at 12:36 AM
johnctharp
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Monito wrote:
Breitling65 is alleging fraud and bribery. Those would be crimes.

Nikon, Canon and Dxo have grounds to sue Breitling65 for libel, even though I'm sure they will not.


Not sure what kind of wild tack you're on, but Canon or Nikon or someone else paying DxO by itself does not indicate criminal behavior.



Jan 22, 2014 at 12:43 AM
Monito
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


johnctharp wrote:
Canon or Nikon or someone else paying DxO by itself does not indicate criminal behavior.


Not per se, but the allegation in Breitling65's libel is that Nikon is paying Dxo to skew the results. That would be fraud since the site represents itself as supposedly impartial. If the payments were to employees, that would be bribery. Both are crimes.



Jan 22, 2014 at 12:52 AM
johnctharp
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


Monito wrote:
Not per se, but the allegation in Breitling65's libel is that Nikon is paying Dxo to skew the results. That would be fraud since the site represents itself as supposedly impartial. If the payments were to employees, that would be bribery. Both are crimes.


If they were paying for skewed results, then sure- but I think I'll stand with Paul Mo on this one


(to note, given the benchmark that DxO has become, it'd be understandable for camera and lens manufacturers to subsidize DxO in some manner, though such a revelation would certainly engender suspicion)



Jan 22, 2014 at 12:59 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


kzoockof wrote:
Audio is much like photography, both are "arts" tying to replicate reality.


Neither can "replicate reality," and that is not really the primarily goal of any art, including photography.

It might be a goal of a technology, but that is a very different thing.

kzoockof wrote:
Dan,

Hmm, I don't recall getting your invitations in the mail? I wonder how that happened


My wife and I live and work among communities of artists, both visual (mostly but not exclusively photography) and musicians (mostly but not exclusively classical), and sometimes the musicians get together and make music apart from their professional performances.

Never bigger than a small chamber orchestra though - not enough room.

Dan


Edited on Jan 22, 2014 at 01:38 AM · View previous versions



Jan 22, 2014 at 01:34 AM
jcolwell
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


kzoockof wrote:
Audio is much like photography, both are "arts" tying to replicate reality.

gdanmitchell wrote:
Neither can "replicate reality," and that is not really the primarily goal of any art, including photography.

It might be a goal of a technology, but that is a very different thing.


Agreed. Some say that there are two types of photography; documentary and interpretive. I think there's only one type, with varying proportions of those two perspectives.


Edited on Jan 22, 2014 at 01:39 AM · View previous versions



Jan 22, 2014 at 01:38 AM
Breitling65
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


johnctharp wrote:
Not sure what kind of wild tack you're on, but Canon or Nikon or someone else paying DxO by itself does not indicate criminal behavior.



Don't worry some of those forum "gurus" already know everything, that is why most normal fm's would never argue



Jan 22, 2014 at 01:38 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · Why Do Canon Lenses Score so Low?


jcolwell wrote:
Agreed. Some say that there are two types of photography; documentary and interpetive. I think there's only one type, with varying proportions of those two perspectives.


Seems like a good way to think of it. I do not believe that any photograph can ever faithfully "replicate reality." As I often say, with boring repetition, "all photographs lie." I'll leave it at that for now.

Dan



Jan 22, 2014 at 01:40 AM
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