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Archive 2013 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification

  
 
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Anyone see a problem with this shot? Look at any size you want.


Zeiss 21mm 20 seconds No post or OS by MaxDistagon, on Flickr




Dec 17, 2013 at 09:28 PM
Spyro P.
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


banding...


Dec 17, 2013 at 10:15 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Access to the raw would be helpful to investigate this. I still suspect the banding/ posterization is related to ACR/ Profile issues but plan on doing more research into it for my own piece of mind.


Dec 17, 2013 at 10:19 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Exactly ! Pinging Mawz too - I noticed that importing as DNG added those magenta pixels that may serve to break up the algorithm from trying to make the file too small and have this banding issue thats more than apparent.

The orange peel and artifacts that I documented at 3x-8x are also just symptoms of the same issue - the Sony in camera compression algorithm.

The camera does great at some things but these kinds of shots are out of the question.

Check it out Mawz - importing as DNG injects mawz-genta pixels...


Zeiss 21mm DNG into JPG by MaxDistagon, on Flickr




Dec 17, 2013 at 10:20 PM
tsdevine
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification



Posting with Max's permission...

Processed through DxO, default settings

http://www.devine.us/img/s5/v129/p335747330-5.jpg


Processed through Iridient default settings

http://www.devine.us/img/s1/v21/p406678843-5.jpg


-Tim



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:22 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Tariq - tsdevine is working on the files and seeing the same things.

He will post in this thread.

I'll share the raw and DNG

Give me a sec to grab the urls

Here is the ARW - feel free to share with anyone or post your efforts / solution

http://tbf.me/a/PbODd



Edited on Dec 17, 2013 at 10:25 PM · View previous versions



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:23 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Thanks.


Dec 17, 2013 at 10:24 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


tsdevine wrote:
-Tim


Tim,

How about posting a 100% crop of the sky are showing the banding using the Adobe RGB (directly from the raw) profile to rule out the possibility that re-sizing and sRGB are at least partial culprits.



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:28 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


My theory - the Sony compression is taxed by the 36mp files. It makes shortcuts that weren't apparent on the 24mb sensors they used before.

A compression takes place and then any further compression compounds the rounding of those values to result in banding in this case, orange peel in others and those line artifacts in others. There's a hint of it or something 'not right' at 1x but when you look close 3x-8x you start to see the problems. Where you know there is no way a leaf has alternating straight lines at the per pixel level of repetitive values.

1 problem - at least 3 bad effects.



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Here is the DNG -

http://tbf.me/a/VESHZ

I think Tim's can be viewed at full size.



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:32 PM
tsdevine
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification



I'm getting ready to hit the hay...might be able to do tomorrow night. FWIW, it's very noticeable in the DxO version at 100%....much more subtle in the Iridient shot at 100%.

-Tim



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:33 PM
tsdevine
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification



I can post links to the full size shots, with Max's permission....say the word Max.



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:34 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


That's alright Tiim. I'm going to play around with the raw. In other Sony raw files that have shown a hint of banding, it was the least noticeable in both Raw Photo Processor and Iridient Developer.


Dec 17, 2013 at 10:36 PM
tsdevine
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification



The more deep shadow tones, the less bits there are to work with. It could be compression related.

I don't expect to find this issue in the type of shooting I do, but I can understand how it may affect others. We'll see if I notice it in my own shots as time passes.

-Tim



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:38 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Yes please Tim -

Hoping we can find a solution or pressure Sony to create one. I am 100% behind anything that does that.



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:38 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


tsdevine wrote:
The more deep shadow tones, the less bits there are to work with. It could be compression related.

I don't expect to find this issue in the type of shooting I do, but I can understand how it may affect others. We'll see if I notice it in my own shots as time passes.

-Tim


Yep, look at how severely underexposed things are. Underexposure + long exp. time is likely not helping things. This is the raw histogram out of RawDigger:

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5540407/maxraw.jpg



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:42 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Underexposed and too long of an exposure ? Yet the moon and some of those christmas lights are blown out when I look at it in LR.



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:45 PM
tsdevine
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification



Link to full size DxO processed shot

Link to full size Iridient prossed shot

-Tim



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:49 PM
thedigitalbean
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


MaxBerlin wrote:
Underexposed and too long of an exposure ? Yet the moon and some of those christmas lights are blown out when I look at it in LR.


The significant majority of the tones are in the deep shadows with just a few pixels in the highlights (i.e. the moon and christmas lights as you point out). Now I know Sony applies a non-linear tone curve to the their raw data and its possible that makes it worse in this kind of situation. It just looks like we're out of bits to represent those really subtle deep shadow tones.

FYI, take the file and boost the exposure by about 2.5 stops and the banding disappears.



Dec 17, 2013 at 10:55 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · A7r - no post, no OS, LR5.3 no magnification


Just for kicks I manipulated post to get a 'result'. It's an OK image but in no way faithful to what I was seeing or wanted to capture. I might as well as taken this image at 8 AM.

By OK - I mean look at the original at 1x. I see a blue gray and magenta splotchiness all over the sky.


Processed but not faithful by MaxDistagon, on Flickr




Dec 17, 2013 at 11:00 PM
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