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Client admits she's going to copy prints
  
 
gschlact
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


To The OP-
My 2 cents... She has changed the rules on you admitting she was going to copy the prints.

1. Meet in person and bring a hard comfy the print she wants to dazzle and entice her
2. Minimally print make clearly on printed onto and on back too
3. The upsell conversatile can go something like- "I know you want additional prints for friends, how many and what size? How about I print them for you instead and even give you another photo selection print for $xxx (try 100?). If she says no, tell her that since she admitted she would essentially taking away revenue from you that you now have to charge her $50 more making it $200 total before you give her the print/sshe originally said she wanted." It is a little bit of a hostage situation but you have the dangling of the hard copy, and giver her the final decision between now three offers $200, 250, or $0 and walk away with no deal.



Dec 19, 2013 at 01:10 AM
drew.bowser
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


TEXTURED PAPER!!! Ask the lab to do a HEAVY texture too


Dec 27, 2013 at 04:32 AM
jeremy_clay
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Paul Mo wrote:
If your contract is solid and she has said she'll be copying - let her run with it. You have a great lawyer don't you?


All great lawyers cost, for an entire case, under the $150.00 he made on the sale, right?


...




Dec 27, 2013 at 12:50 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Why sell to an admitted thief?


Dec 28, 2013 at 01:13 AM
Access
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Daniel Smith wrote:
Why sell to an admitted thief?

At least she's honest about it, if you are selling to the general population, today; more than half the people out there think this way. Most are just going to do it behind the photographer's back (rather than admit it up front like that). If I had to choose, I'd rather deal with a thief who admits it rather than one who is going to do it behind my back (without my knowledge). At least I'd know to watch that person and their actions very carefully; and to watch for signs of misdirection or trickery.

This is just the world we live in today, and a business model had better take that into account if the business is to last.

Photographers in general have a negative view of this, esp. working pros whose bottom line is hurt due to the practice. But let's not forget the most common pirated software in the world is often cited as Adobe Photoshop, a product for photographers. Not a video game, an operating system, office productivity software, etc., but a photo manipulation tool.

I don't think there's a right answer in this particular case, but there is a lesson here for those that don't already know it (most do).



Dec 28, 2013 at 03:54 PM
chez
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Client admits she's going to copy prints




Daniel Smith wrote:
Why sell to an admitted thief?


You are squeaky clean as far as music, films and software? Great if you are as I'd like to meet the one and only.



Dec 28, 2013 at 05:14 PM
poodlelvr
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


There is no right answer here - but you can be sure she will tell everyone about the bargain she got if you lower your price….
I personally would simply nicely refuse the transaction and move on. Don't take it personally; this is part of being in business but you do not have to sell to her.



Dec 30, 2013 at 06:04 PM
mdude85
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


poodlelvr wrote:
There is no right answer here - but you can be sure she will tell everyone about the bargain she got if you lower your price….
I personally would simply nicely refuse the transaction and move on. Don't take it personally; this is part of being in business but you do not have to sell to her.


Or maybe she won't tell anyone. I'd be kind of surprised if it came up in conversation at the market or dinner parties.



Dec 31, 2013 at 03:54 AM
RDKirk
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


All my consumer prints are made on textured paper as a matter of course, and have my copyright label on the back. I don't sell any prints so small that the texture obscures detail.


Jan 03, 2014 at 03:20 AM
Ronny Mills
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Don't use textured paper. It will reduce the quality of the copies which will hurt your brand more than the loss of a few prints. Tell her you will give her low cost copies from the drug store like Sears would do. You want her to be happy this once.


Jan 04, 2014 at 01:02 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Daniel Smith
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


chez wrote:
You are squeaky clean as far as music, films and software? Great if you are as I'd like to meet the one and only.


The fact some of us buy and pay for what we use is a surprise to you?



Jan 05, 2014 at 05:51 PM
Bearmann
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


So what did you end up doing? What was the outcome?


Jan 10, 2014 at 04:21 PM
chez
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Daniel Smith wrote:
The fact some of us buy and pay for what we use is a surprise to you?


If you are one that has never used software, music, video, electronic books etc... that you never paid for...congratulations...you are in a very minority group.



Jan 10, 2014 at 10:32 PM
tsaphoto
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


1. I'm a lawyer. I do some IP work. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of filing a suit over this. Maybe if she was using your image commercially.

2. Have you considered the advertising value of her copying your prints? Sure, she's doing something unethical and depriving you of sales in the short run... but will the friends she gives copies to want their own photos? You may end up with more business as a result.



Jan 11, 2014 at 01:58 AM
kezeka
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Access wrote:
At least she's honest about it, if you are selling to the general population, today; more than half the people out there think this way. Most are just going to do it behind the photographer's back (rather than admit it up front like that). If I had to choose, I'd rather deal with a thief who admits it rather than one who is going to do it behind my back (without my knowledge). At least I'd know to watch that person and their actions very carefully; and to watch for signs of misdirection or trickery.

This is just the world we
...Show more

This is absolutely the correct answer. I know my clients do this frequently but I take it into account now. I had one recently ask for her entire engagement session on disk for $200. I said $250 and we had a deal. Better that then losing out on the sale entirely in my mind. It certainly wasn't worth losing a friendship and potential future sales over.



Jan 11, 2014 at 02:40 AM
J___
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


All in all it depends on how you want to deal with this. Personally, I wouldn't bother with all the lawyer stuff over something so small, the hassle and fees involved is not worth it. In honest truth, you're not Ansel Adams and the prints are not going to be used to make money by the 3rd party. Take it as a compliment that the client wants to reproduce these to give to her friends if you do decide to make a sale to her. I'd focus the time spent on this either shooting more or getting more clients.

On a lot of my ad shoots the clients exceed our usage contract, but I've never taken any action in suing a client. Some of these are pretty big international brands and although I'd "win" in a case because of their breach of contract, there's really no point in doing so as the circle is quite tight and being known as the photographer who sued his client isn't very good. I just up my initial shoot fee the next time they hire me again. In the meantime I'd rather focus my time on creating and landing more jobs.



Jan 12, 2014 at 07:06 PM
DigMeTX
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Curious to know what the OP did in the end since I'm assuming he's done something by now.. Unless I missed it.

brad



Jan 13, 2014 at 10:39 PM
John Patrick
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


I PMed the OP and asked for an update.

John



Jan 14, 2014 at 10:20 PM
Karl Johnston
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


I'm curious if the textured paper thing prevents scans..just how textured are we talking? Canvas? What type of paper is this?

$150 for a portrait session is pretty low especially to be including prints. As in, super low. As in, I can't figure out how the OP is making any money at all. Personally, I think I would pass on the client entirely. I look for forming relationships and repeat clients over time. I don't think her attitude is very respectful, and thus the relationship you have with that client that is she views you as a toss out commodity, disposable.




Jan 15, 2014 at 12:55 AM
JohnBrose
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Client admits she's going to copy prints


Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the thread, I didn't think people would keep responding. So far what has happened, I did mention the client to one of the horse show management just to let them know the situation. I figured that I will sell prints to her if it comes to that because she is about 800 miles away from me and I probably wont have to deal with her again and it's not worth the hassle to get into an argument over this small of a sale. If I do make the sale to her, I do plan on reminding her it is illegal to make her own copies of the prints though and that it reflects poorly on the quality of my work when she subsequently prints illegal, inferior prints. At, this point prints and $ have not exchanged hands, but those are my plans. Thanks to all for your comments.


Jan 15, 2014 at 04:14 PM
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