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Archive 2013 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7

  
 
rak7275
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


If you do not mind used and are in the US, Amazon as used VERY GOOD GX7 kits for $745. Also tried out AF-C on Thursday. Yes it was bright, and I had good DOF at F 4-5.6 but it still did a great job. These shots were shot from the hip while I was running and moving around as well. SOC except shot 1

1010524_1 by alterna751, on Flickr


P1010362 by alterna751, on Flickr


P1010524 by alterna751, on Flickr


P1010425 by alterna751, on Flickr



Nov 29, 2013 at 10:25 PM
sflxn
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


You can focus fast and accurate when you shoot with wide-angles like 12mm and small apertures (lots of DoF) on any camera. The silent shutter on the GX7 is actually a seriously flawed implementation. The e-shutter actually rolls through the sensor at 1/10 sec no matter what shutter speed you have set, according to reports. Pixels are exposed for the shutter speed settings, but the e shutter curtain still rolls over the sensor at 1/10 sec. I consider this a serious flaw and am very surpised Panasonic would release such a bad design.

I picked up a GX7 today because of the ridiculous deals, but then proceeded to research it before opening the package. I'm not a fan of the p&s sensor Panasonic and Olympus uses but I read the GX7 had a silent shutter and could focus down to -4.0 EV, and those are 2 features I really would like ot have. Needless to day, I'm returning it tomorrow. If the OP want truly silent shooting cameras with no rolling shutter effects in photos, the only choices are fixed lens cameras with leaf shutter lenses like the Fuji X100s, RX1, and Coolpix A. The Ricoh GR comes close, but the shutter is surprisingly not silent. It doesn't look like e-shutters for CMOS are ready for prime time.



Nov 30, 2013 at 07:07 AM
Wilbus
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


P&S Sensors in Panasonic and Olympus cameras? While they are indeed smaller then the "normal" DSLR sensor they are a long way from P&S (not counting the newer APS-C releases of Fujifilm X100, Nikon A and Ricoh GR). Pherhaps some more insight could be needed before stating such things?




Nov 30, 2013 at 07:20 AM
sflxn
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


Wilbus wrote:
P&S Sensors in Panasonic and Olympus cameras? While they are indeed smaller then the "normal" DSLR sensor they are a long way from P&S (not counting the newer APS-C releases of Fujifilm X100, Nikon A and Ricoh GR). Pherhaps some more insight could be needed before stating such things?



Alright, I probably shouldn't have called it a p&s sensor since the RX100 sensor is a little smaller, but the OP should heed my warning about the silent shutter. It only takes one instance of the rolling shutter effect in a photo to shatter confidence in a camera. Stick with a mechanical shutter for the time being. If you want silence, go with a leaf shutter.



Nov 30, 2013 at 07:42 AM
rak7275
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


sflxn - was the quote about 12mm and DOF about my post? The photos posted were shot with the 40-150.


Nov 30, 2013 at 09:31 AM
serhan_
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


APSC and m43 sensors are close enough per dxo scores, but the m43 af is ahead of the competition... I am only using e-shutter w/ gx7 and hasn't seen the bad affects of rolling shots w/ people walking/skating, maybe I am not that picky... Some shots I used the low shutter speeds which has the blurriness anyway... RX1 af cannot manage to focus as m43 fast, not nex either... Fixed lens cameras are nice but doesn't have the range. I have old Canon dslrs, 5D & 40D, and they misfocused much more w/ fast glass in low light compared to any mirrorless camera that I used... Contrast af is better that way and came a long way since the first mirrorless cameras...

OMD has a better face recognition, gx7 has faster low light focusing per comparison below:
http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=56051



Nov 30, 2013 at 11:05 AM
sflxn
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


rak7275 wrote:
sflxn - was the quote about 12mm and DOF about my post? The photos posted were shot with the 40-150.


The guy above you mentioned 12mm. The DOF was for your post.

With regards to the e-shutter, anyone who uses it need to accept the risk. I read second hand that even Panasonic has a warning about artifacts with moving objects. The gx7 mechanical shutter was pretty loud. Louder than NEX and, I believe, the X-E2 that I checked out. The camera was an impulse buy, but now I've changed my mind. I should stay away from camera stores.



Nov 30, 2013 at 05:12 PM
millsart
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


Check out the Nikon V series if you want a silent shutter that can capture fast action


Nov 30, 2013 at 05:32 PM
Jochenb
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


The electronic shutter is a fantastic feature and perfectly usable when you know how to properly use it.


Dec 01, 2013 at 05:23 AM
MarcG19
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


MarcG19 wrote:
I'm also trying to choose between them. I have borrowed one of each for about a week, having a previously used an EM-5 (which my brother wants me to give him, thus my quest for a new camera. And no, I don't need any more brothers!).

I will let everybody know what I think in about a week.


Few weeks late, but I think I've digested my ideas. I've certainly taken action on my decision!

I'll echo a few of the other posts: these are really different cameras. One has D300/7D pretensions, the other's body style is a point and shoot upgraded with things an enthusiast wants. (people say "rangefinder style" but since I've never used a rangefinder I can't use that).

IMO the GX7 is comparable to, and has a few advantages over, but does not beat any $1200 price range camera of its generation (D7000/7100, 70D, EM-5).

In contrast, from what I've seen so far I'd say the EM-1 is better than the D7000 (which is the only recent generation Canikon I've used) in every aspect save for continuous AF, especially for sports or birds in flight, and I'd project the same to the D7100 and 70D (even though the latter I believe has better video).

The EM-1 has some things on par with the $1800 APS-C Canikons (back when Canikon made such things. : D ) - fast shutter speed, high quality, fairly tough weather sealed build. Not as tough as my old D2x, but I think as good as my 7D (or from what I've seen the D700/D800/5D) . It also has some useful features I don't believe even the D4 and 1D MkIV don't have, like in body IS, an ability to rapidly magnify the image in both the screen and the OVF, the ability to adjust the buttons to do anything you want. (at the same time of course, even the 7D is a far better sports, bird, and fast action cam, to say nothing of the full frame bodies)

Note: I've owned/used/put at least 5000 shots each through a D70, D90, D7000, D2x, EM-5, GX1. Favorite was the D2x, followed by the EM-5, though they are completely different cameras. I like my full spectrum GX1 (courtesy of FM member DSLR hyper cams - check him our for IR/full spectrum conversions), ergonomically - it's better than the EM-5 - and I never really grew too attached to the EM-5's EVF. For the last nearly two years I've used the EM-5, brining out the 7D only for BIF.



Things I liked about the GX7
  • Size/form factor - smaller and more packable than EM-5

  • Video is pretty good

  • quick to operate - almost as fast for me, ergonomically than the EM-5

  • excellent image quality - seems to be on par with the EM-5 and D7000



    Notable things about the GX7:
  • I would have liked the opportunity to use the electronic shutter, but never had the chance to
    IBIS is not at all like the EM-5's or lens based IS - it only engages when you press the shutter. Thus, it doesn't work in video. Not a problem IMO, unless you like video IS and don't want to use Panasonic's stabilized lenses.

  • Body quality I think is fine. I'm sure if it's naked out in heavy rain, things won't go well, but beyond abuse like that I think it will fit most people just fine

    Things I disliked about the GX7:
  • Focus peaking is odd - green wavy lights in high contrast areas, but not very clear. Sometimes they would not appear, and even if they did it was easy to miss. Not really useful for fast paced MF. Why couldn't they do it like Sony?

  • I found the dials of the Panasonic a bit small and required attention to use, but not a big deal (I have skinny Asian fingers on a large spidery hand. The EM-5 was never a big problem for me, though some of the buttons were a bit too small)

  • EVF is way too physically small. Serious chance of poking your eye, and also hard to stabilize the camera or get a good clear view.

  • For some reason I think Panny's UI has gone down since the GX1. It's just a more complicated camera with more features packed in. There are some oddities with the menu that took a while to iron out, even for a GX1 user. IMO, it could stand a few more buttons.

  • The manual is awful



    Things I will miss from the GX7:
  • Extra Teleconverter. This is a crop mode for video (not a digital zoom, but a crop down to the pixel level). This feature is useful in my 1000+ yd bird videography with a 400mm lens. But I can get this from other cheaper Panny cameras.



    My judgement on the GX7 : Good camera but was a bit overpriced at launch (now with discounts it's a much better value) Unless you really like this body size and factor, or really need the IS, I think other Panny's same gen bodies are better -e.g. the G6 at discount or GM1. I also don't think it's a faster camera to operate or a better than the GX1 or EM-5.



    Things I like about the EM-1:
  • Build quality - allegedly well weather sealed and environmentally durable. Quality of components and buttons feels high (unlike the EM-5, which I felt gipped on body quality-wise. but what great pictures and lenses on such a small camera!) Feels tough in hands, though I think for most buyers this will be just window dressing.

  • Customizability - can make most buttons what you want, and even switch them around to your needs.

  • Ergonomics are pretty good. They mimicked Nikon (or perhaps their old OM cameras - never used one). I like this body's ergonomics and handling better than my 7D's. FYI, I like Nikon ergonomics and handling).

  • Very very fast in highest frame rate. Buffer is good with fast SD cards, feels like its as good as 7D, but I haven't measured it. Not as good as the D4, of course (and admittedly I've only tried the D4 in the Nikon dog and pony show stand. But that speed and buffer is really impressive!!!)

  • Single AF with m4/3 lenses is fast fast fast - better than EM-5, which was pretty good in the first place. The 50-200 also seems to work well in S-AF, though notably slower (a little bit slower than the 40-150 mZuiko on the EM-5)

  • Audio in!!!!

  • EVF is stellar. Large, clear, larger in perceived size than APS-C OVF, and for the first time I'm using it more than the LCD. (may have noticeable lag). Seems to adjust to lighting conditions, I'm trying figure out exactly how it works and how to control it.

  • Olympus didn't decide to use a different battery



    Notable things of the EM-1:
  • Interface is mostly like EM-5, though there were some new things to get used to, but once I'd gotten used to those and set it up there's been little transition pain.

  • AF point size is adjustable. I don't know if I like or not, still trying to get a grip on this

  • There are a lot of custom settings, some oddly arranged. It will take me some time to figure out how I want to set up this camera

  • Video is adequate for consumer use, I'm not so sure about for those looking for broadcast quality. Still, 60Hz would be nice.




    Things I don't like about the EM-1
  • Price (even though its introductory MSRP is only $300 more than the EM-5's, and $200 more than the Canikon D7100/7000/90 or 70/60D.

  • AF point size with 4/3 lenses notably larger than m4/3

  • Focus peaking: Not as odd as Panasonics, just kind of ham-fisted, ugly, and allegedly not so accurate. Why couldn't they do it like Sony?

  • Continuous AF - Maybe it's good for moving kids, parties and the like. But it's no good for BIF, several steps down from the D90, D7000 or 7D (tested with 50-200, which is otherwise an awesome lens). It might work decently for running mammals or sports, assuming you the subject wholly within the largish AF sensor. I think it's partially a lens issue, but mostly a software and AF hardware issue.

  • Have to use/carry around that ridiculous snap on "pop up" flash to get wireless remote flash with Oly speed lights. If I need speed lights I'm going to look into third party alternatives.

  • PC-sync cap is easily lost - I'm told this was rampant on film cameras which had these sync ports.

  • The 1/2 lever around the AE-AFL button is an interesting but odd idea. I'm not sure whether it's "too limited" or "too limited, but fortunately I found something that's useful for me"

  • Needs more buttons.

  • Menu system is a mess. I got a handle around it for the EM-5, but the EM-1 adds more potentially useful, and more just unknown settings. Most of which can only be accessed by menu diving. See "needs more buttons". The Canikon 7D/5D or D300/700/800 bodies are instructive in this regard.



    My judgment on the EM-1: very complicated camera. It will take a while to get used to it, even for someone who's gotten 10K so shots in his EM-5. But once set up it will be the cat's meow for rapid photography - mostly on par with, in some way exceeding the best cameras of the last generation in terms of handling and manipulability (either that or "it could have been the cat's meow, but Olympus's implementation limited the usefulness of the features they added"). Sensor, IBIS are as good as EM-5. Not suitable for BIF, which is disappointing but really not surprising. May be suitable for other people's C-AF needs.

    Awesome camera, IMO beating the $1200 Canikon bodies in usability/body quality/speed of use and a reasonable alternative to the 7/5D or D300/700/800 level body for usability/body quality/speed of use. Probably a stellar choice, perhaps best out there, for for the person who wants quick still photo action in a small high quality package, as long as you can live with the sensor size and don't mind using S-AF.

    Edited on Jan 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM · View previous versions


  • Dec 28, 2013 at 12:53 AM
    TMaG82
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    p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


    I'll post my thoughts on the two, but maybe the OP has already made his up mind.

    I've owned the E-M1 since launch, got mine early in late September. Came up from the E-M5. Had the 12-40 zoom since November. Combined this with my existing PL25, and now PL45.

    I love the build quality, the IQ, the speed, everything about it. I use movie mode more than I thought I would and having the IBIS during movie mode is great.

    Positives
    + Build Quality. My daughter yanked on the camera strap and pulled it off a desk and dropped about 2.5 feet onto hardwood floor. Not a mark at all.
    + IQ
    + AF Speed
    + EVF is the best I've ever used.
    + Handling, especially after adding the RRS L-Plate, it improves handling a lot.
    Negatives
    - Movie mode could use some higher bit rate
    - Size while a lot smaller than the FF setup I was using, is still not small. But this is a minor negative.

    Still the size left me wanting something smaller to carry around for casual snaps. As you who have children know, when you're carrying around a ton of baby stuff, even a small camera bag can sometimes be too much.

    So I looked into a smaller options.

    After trying a x100s, I thought, I have all this m4/3 gear, why not get another m4/3 camera? So it was between the GM1 and the GX7. Decided on the GX7 with the 20 pancake because of the more physical buttons and the EVF. Got it, tested it out for a week, and I'm sending it back. Why?

    Positives
    + Form factor is great in the hand with small primes.
    + Flash can be tilted back
    + Tilting EVF is nice
    + Video is better than EM1.
    + Setting AF points and options seems better than the EM1
    - EVF after using the EM1 is subpar. If I had never seen or could compare next to each other the EVFs, I'm sure the GX7 would be adequate, but having both side by side, it's no comparison. The GX7 is just subpar.
    - Using larger lenses is very uncomfortable. I put the 12-40 zoom and there and it felt unusable without having two hands on the camera at all times. With the EM1 I could carry by the grip and it was fine.
    - No Auto ISO in M mode. I know that M mode means manual, but having an auto ISO is convenient. At least give us an option.

    In the end, if I had gotten the GX7 first, I probably would've been very happy. But having a EM1 and the only real negative, which isn't a negative, is the larger size which for me right now having a small kid is a negative but in a few years when she's bigger could be a positive. And having a feature rich camera like the GX7 for those times when I wanted a small camera to carry around, it wasn't efficient, both in terms of cost and having something that wouldn't be used that much.

    I figured that if the use split was 50/50 or if my wife used the camera often then it would make sense to keep it. But the use split would be 70/30, so having a $1,300 backup camera didn't make sense. And if it makes any sense at all, I felt guilty having such a nice camera but not using it.

    So I got myself a Ricoh GR instead. Grabbed it during B&H's sale, so paid 1/2 of what I did for the GX7. So far it's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. It's small but ergonomic enough. Have just enough buttons, though I wish the front dial was a little more pronounced. It's not perfect by any means, it doesn't have a touch screen, which I've grown to love having a touch AF option. It doesn't have Wifi for fast transfers. But I love having the versatility in RAW files and sometimes it's nice having a different look to the files as opposed to having the same m4/3 files to deal with all the time.



    Dec 29, 2013 at 08:35 AM
    Jochenb
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    p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


    I already posted on page 1 of this thread, but I since I now own both the GX7 and E-M1 I'll share my opinion again.

    To cut to the chase: I'm not sure which one I prefer yet. Some differences:

    First of all: the electronic shutter. Both cameras suffer from shutter shock at some shutterspeeds, but only the electronic shutter of the GX7 really eliminates it.
    The electronic shutter is also much quieter than the mechanical shutters from both cameras, you hear nothing but the lens aperture moving.

    Secondly: On the E-M1 I miss the ability to move the focus point around with the touchscreen, while looking through the EVF. Even if the E-M1 had this feature, it wouldn't work well because of the form factor though. Your face is in front of the LCD. it's an ingenious feature.

    Thirdly: GX7 RAW files look slightly smoother to me. The E-M1 files standardly have a more agressive look. I often have to turn off all default sharpening in LR, because it makes the files look oversharpened.

    Finally: The GX7 has a built-in flash which can be tilted back and has better video. I hardly use flash and never use video, but it might be important to some people.

    However, the E-M1 feels like a tank. The GX7 feels cheap in comparison. The dials, the tiltable LCD,... they're just less robust feeling. I dislike the mechanical shutter of the GX7, it's quite loud and high-pitched.
    The E-M1 really has the best EVF I've ever used, the one on the GX7 shows you "rainbow tearing" which is annoying. The Olympus can shoot 10 fps. The E-M1 IBIS destroys the one in the GX7. I can shoot my 75/1.8 at shutterspeed 1/5, which is crazy good.
    Overall, not easy because there's also quite a big price difference.




    Dec 30, 2013 at 05:07 AM
    traveler
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    p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


    It sounds to me as if this is as much if not all a price issue. I also seem to get the impression that the GX7 is all you really need. The EM1 is truly a different animal and more for those that want the DSLR experience without the bulk. So in the end I think the GX7 would be a better fit for you.


    Dec 31, 2013 at 11:08 AM
    itai195
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    p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Help me decide: Oly E-M1 vs. Pana G-X7


    If you want the more discreet camera and are a little price sensitive, I'd go GX7. While the E-M1 is great, I think it's just too large for a m4/3 camera. The system is supposed to be about small size IMO. GX7 gets you that, plus a quiet shutter and a nicer video output, if that matters at all to you. The E-M1 certainly has a lot of aspects that are nicer, but you pay for those in cost and size.

    The Oly 12-40 might be oversized for a GX7, and the kit lens is so-so. The little 12-32 would probably be great, but I haven't seen it for sale outside of the GM1 kit.



    Dec 31, 2013 at 01:41 PM
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