Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Forum & Miscellaneous | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2013 · Buy and Sell Forum

  
 
capt don
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Buy and Sell Forum


Has anyone else besides me noticed that the b&s forum is loaded with some fine gear at really great prices but lots of lookers and few buyers. I guess it's just a sign of the times and the economy.


Nov 23, 2013 at 05:21 PM
anthonysemone
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Buy and Sell Forum


and the presence of a lot of sellers who are here just to sell.... i.e., most probably secondary commercial resellers. For myself, I bypass them.


Nov 23, 2013 at 06:07 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Buy and Sell Forum


anthonysemone wrote:
and the presence of a lot of sellers who are here just to sell.... i.e., most probably secondary commercial resellers. For myself, I bypass them.


Yes, those folks who resell on FM on a commercial basis have an inflationary effect on prices, but they also increase supply as well as competition to members who sell stuff out of their own personal kits. I am not sure what the combined net effect is of that, moreover, there are pros and cons for buyers and then sellers, and they are not the same.

Be that as it may, I like the original concept Fred had for the B&S board whereby only personal members' gears were allowed, i.e., no flipping gear and speculating, such as buying low on eBay, Craig's List and god knows where else, and then selling high on B&S board.



Nov 23, 2013 at 06:56 PM
anthonysemone
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Buy and Sell Forum


BINGO



Nov 23, 2013 at 07:02 PM
anthonysemone
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Buy and Sell Forum


When did it change, the policy about only personal members gear was allowed? Any idea why?


Nov 23, 2013 at 07:03 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Buy and Sell Forum


Anthony, if you take a look at the current B&S board rules, they still talk about "commercial sales" not being allowed, as always.

However, I suspect there have been a couple of factors which have made the rule enforcement less than strict over the years:

(1) It is sometimes not easy to differentiate between "commercial" sales and "personal kit" sales.
(2) Perhaps it has been felt that FM members generally benefit from the board presence of a few long standing and well known commercial resellers.



Nov 23, 2013 at 07:13 PM
ronfronberg
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Buy and Sell Forum


If I remember correctly, in CA (California) 3 or more sells per year you are to get a resale license. So if you have a resale license then you would be a reseller.


Nov 23, 2013 at 09:35 PM
jimmy462
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Buy and Sell Forum


capt don wrote:
Has anyone else besides me noticed that the b&s forum is loaded with some fine gear at really great prices but lots of lookers and few buyers. I guess it's just a sign of the times and the economy.


Hi capt don, etal,

I'm not sure which gear items you are referring to here are "at really great prices", because I'm not seeing "it".

Using reference points for gear I've either purchased in the past, or have researched with an interest to purchase, what I see is few "true bargains" and quite a few, er, "hopeful" pricings. Heck, I've even seen items for sale which were going for more than current rebate prices! ...And, where I've written those sellers (not just here on the B&S) suggesting they "see for themselves" and, maybe, consider adjusting their prices accordingly, I've been met with either "ignoring" or "indignation" and, only rarely, a price consideration.

As a result, I've adapted my purchasing considerations to this "newer reality". My time has value. Where recent used sales are not reflecting reasonable used pricing (to my sensibilities), I find myself shopping "new" with all the benefits of "return policies", "all items included" and included "full warranties"...the folks trying to sell their "free vacation rental's" or "free project rental's" or "parted out the kits for profit's" or "oops, I accidentally dropped or scratched my new gear and now it's no longer perfect and so I don't want it any more's" cameras and gear can find their customers elsewhere. Momma didn't raise no fools back home.

FWIW, there is another down-side to consumers with "premium pricing for used gear"...whether it's holding on to L Glass purchased in 2005 and later sold for 2013 prices, or scalped tickets to sporting and concert events, or iGear...and that is this, it does not go unnoticed by the manufacturers. Folks can cry all they want about new L prices, Baseball ticket prices, and iGear prices, but Canon, the Yankees and Apple have decided not to "leave money on the table" when the public will clearly pay top dollar for their wares.

I can't wait for the release of the $4,000 5D Mark IV... :P

Happy holiday shopping season, one and all,
Jimmy G



Nov 24, 2013 at 09:00 AM
capt don
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Buy and Sell Forum


What I see a lot of is if you look at the profiles, some of the people selling their gear have just joined to turn this into another ebay. If you look at their profiles they never post anything or comment on anything, just here to sell gear. I feel that 90% of us are good to great FM'ers and are really involved in this site.


Nov 24, 2013 at 08:18 PM
jim allison
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Buy and Sell Forum


I think that Fred should end the "no price policing policy". That would hinder some of these kit dismantlers and commercial resellers. He might also prohibit describing any items as new
since, as by definition, if they are being resold, they can not be new! The B&S board most certainly needs some major changes. It should be a place where the FM community comes to exchange or liquidate equipment.IMHO It shouldn't be a place to make a quick buck.



Nov 25, 2013 at 09:16 PM
molson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Buy and Sell Forum


jim allison wrote:
I think that Fred should end the "no price policing policy". That would hinder some of these kit dismantlers and commercial resellers. He might also prohibit describing any items as new
since, as by definition, if they are being resold, they can not be new! The B&S board most certainly needs some major changes. It should be a place where the FM community comes to exchange or liquidate equipment.IMHO It shouldn't be a place to make a quick buck.


The "no price policing" policy works just fine - it keeps all the clowns in check who would otherwise harass legitimate buyers and sellers. If you don't like the price someone is asking for a piece of gear, just move along...



Nov 27, 2013 at 03:11 PM
cocosphere
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Buy and Sell Forum


I read this and other similar threads and I think that I seem to fit the profile that some here find distasteful for selling too much and not contributing enough to the other forums.

I personally fail to see how the "gear flippers" are making a ton of money here unless they are scammers, who we can all agree need to be eliminated as much as is possible. We all have to pay yearly to buy and sell & the seller is always going to pay the shipping and the Paypal fees in some form or another for every transaction. I have lost money on every single lens I have posted for sale here.

Instead, I have educated myself through the purchase and sale of a lot of camera gear and the B&S forums have enabled me to do that at a reduced cost over other options. It's not unlike paying for training in a skill or renting the gear outright. Buying and selling here is a part of my Fred Miranda experience. This is as important to me as asking others to critique images or competing in the photo challenges which I admit I don't do very often.

What have I done with this buying and selling? I shot a wedding with a 1ds II when the 5d II was the technically better sensor from my research. I read the forums opining on the subject and I bought a camera to see what they were talking about. I learned it, I shot with it when I already owned the 5d II. When people say the 1ds II was a classic camera because of the color it rendered, I agree with them because I experienced it.

I moved to mirrorless when I realized that my $10,000 investment in gear was huge and heavy and that there were other options to achieve what I wanted, again through these forums.

Bottom line for me is this is a great site to learn and pontificate over camera gear, creativity, and trades/sales at the same time. Let's not lose sight of that by trying to dictate who should or should not "make money" on the B&S forum. If people are violating terms then notify the moderators and let them take care of it as best they can instead of outing members without real data.

I do not regret for a minute meeting a shooter in 2008 that pointed me toward fredmiranda.com, nor do I see a huge difference in how B&S it is used now other than having to be more careful in who you deal with. Who only reads the first page or doesn't use search terms to find the gear that they want to buy anyway?



Nov 30, 2013 at 12:03 AM
jimmy462
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Buy and Sell Forum


cocosphere wrote:
>snip<

I personally fail to see how the "gear flippers" are making a ton of money here unless they are scammers, who we can all agree need to be eliminated as much as is possible. We all have to pay yearly to buy and sell & the seller is always going to pay the shipping and the Paypal fees in some form or another for every transaction. I have lost money on every single lens I have posted for sale here.

>snip<


Hi cocosphere,

I appreciate the insights from your personal experiences, and I appreciate your time and efforts for sharing those here. I'll reserve my comments to the snippet above.

I'm always mindful that folks coming to internet boards arrive with their own unique level of experience, ability, character and motivations. As fellow forum posters we are all tasked with being able to discern, to the best of our abilities, the who's and why's of other folks' postings. Are they noobs or old-hacks? Are they genuine or are they hucksters? Are they forthcoming or are they deceptive? And on and on it goes, dialoging back-and-forth, everyone trying to figure the other person out, everyone looking to find their comfort level, each of us trying our best. And none of us are perfect, and online dialoging is a game of give-and-take, and push-and-pull, and patience-and-"well, packing it in".

Feedback is a two-way street, and more...my opinions, another's opinions, and lots of other folks' opinions. Okay, maybe it's more like a freeway. With some luck, and a fair dose of communication and critique, feedback can be a useful tool to help improve a forum's environment for all users.

On the B&S board, where real money and real gear are involved, both buyers and sellers have legitimate concerns about the practices, behaviors, integrity, and motivations of each other. Having a feedback mechanism for such a board is, to me, vital...folks from either buyer or seller perspective need to be heard. We may or may not like what the other side has to say but clearing the air, sorting through difficulties and settling deals-gone-awry all need forum space. I'll argue that it makes for a healthier and more vibrant forum experience all around...I consider it "consumer advocacy" for both sides.

As for my own perspectives, I come here to put voice to my buyer's experiences...I shop for my best prices and deals when I'm in the market for a specific item, and I am quite literally perplexed when I see asking prices for used gear that are greater than what can be found through certified dealer rebates or incentives...ergo, my above comments. That the concept of "losing money on used consumer gear" is anathema to some sellers, well, I "get" that...they just shouldn't be surprised when I look at them with that same queer look I'd give them if they were trying to sell me their slightly used car for more than what a new one would cost me down the street at the dealer's.

Folks come here to advise how to be smart sellers, and some folks come here to advise how to be smart shoppers.

Anyhoo, thanks again for sharing your experiences, they gave me some things to be more considerate towards. That more folks shared your sensibilities the B&S board would be that much improved! Well, IMHO.


Jimmy G



Nov 30, 2013 at 10:48 AM
nvrupnvrin
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Buy and Sell Forum


PetKal wrote:
Yes, those folks who resell on FM on a commercial basis have an inflationary effect on prices, but they also increase supply as well as competition to members who sell stuff out of their own personal kits. I am not sure what the combined net effect is of that, moreover, there are pros and cons for buyers and then sellers, and they are not the same.

Be that as it may, I like the original concept Fred had for the B&S board whereby only personal members' gears were allowed, i.e., no flipping gear and speculating, such as buying low on eBay,
...Show more


+ 1 ......



Dec 02, 2013 at 06:21 AM





FM Forums | Forum & Miscellaneous | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.